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So, after a two weapon fighting + natrual attack build, I was looking for a simpler melee build.
Basically, a PC that focuses on hitting once, very hard.
I understand the Vital Strike line is in order, but other that, I am unsure how to go about it.
Let's say 15 point buy, all books allowed.
Any suggestions?
Human Order of the Sword Cavalier with Banner bonus racial favored class bonus.
You will hit once. You will hit incredibly hard.
Do you just want it simple to play? Or do you want a simple build? (As in single-class build?)
Well, if you don't mind class shenanigans, you could take a level (or two) of barbarian, a level of alchemist, and then go rogue.
High Strength score + Rage + greatsword + sneak attack dice + 2-handed power attack
or, if you have time to buff:
High Strength score + Strength mutagen + Rage + greatsword + Enlarge Person + sneak attack + 2-handed power attack
Plus, it lets you do eithr an intimidate build or a Feint build. Only a little cheesy... well, ok,maybe a bit more than a little. :)
Is that a mounted build? If so, then you have the attacks of the mount, which sort of defeats the purpose.
How does that work? I am unfamiliar with the Cavalier.
You do have the attacks of the mount but you need never use them if you don't want to. Wanna of the better builds I've messed with are cavaliers that have slower more heavily armored mounts. All you need is 10ft. of movement afterall.
By level 20 ye olde knight of the sword will be hitting with a mounted charge of Weapon+1.5 Str + Charisma + 20 from challenge + Mount's Strength + Power attack x 4
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Is that a mounted build? If so, then you have the attacks of the mount, which sort of defeats the purpose.
How does that work? I am unfamiliar with the Cavalier.
You do have the attacks of the mount but you need never use them if you don't want to. Wanna of the better builds I've messed with are cavaliers that have slower more heavily armored mounts. All you need is 10ft. of movement afterall.
By level 20 ye olde knight of the sword will be hitting with a mounted charge of Weapon+1.5 Str + Charisma + 20 from challenge + Mount's Strength + Power attack x 4
Working with a mount sounds like it would minimize the ability to make your one big attack often. Narrow spaces and dungeons and what not.
This would be a fighter build few open slots to add what you want.
Look at the Two-Handed Fighter archetype. with this archetype your getting double your STR mod not the normal 1.5 STR.
lvl 1. power attack
lvl 1. Weapon focus
lvl 2.
lvl 3.
lvl 4. Weapon Specialization
lvl 6. Death or glory
lvl 6. Vital Strike
lvl 8. Improved critical
lvl 9. Devastating Strike
lvl 10. Greater Weapon focus
lvl 11. Improved Vital Strike
lvl 12. Greater Weapon Specialization
lvl 12. Penetrating Strike
lvl 14. Improved Devastating Strike
lvl 16. Greater Vital Strike
Working with a mount sounds like it would minimize the ability to make your one big attack often. Narrow spaces and dungeons and what not.Is that a mounted build? If so, then you have the attacks of the mount, which sort of defeats the purpose.
How does that work? I am unfamiliar with the Cavalier.
You do have the attacks of the mount but you need never use them if you don't want to. Wanna of the better builds I've messed with are cavaliers that have slower more heavily armored mounts. All you need is 10ft. of movement afterall.
By level 20 ye olde knight of the sword will be hitting with a mounted charge of Weapon+1.5 Str + Charisma + 20 from challenge + Mount's Strength + Power attack x 4
Granted but it's also one of the only ways you get to do damage on a charge comparable to a 2hf paladin or fighter's full attack.
Now if you want a consistent one big hit you are probably wanting to look at gunslingers whom I believe get a deed that focuses a full attack into one shot.
Fighter 4+/Rogue (Scout) 8 works reasonably well; since you're going for one hit anyway, and Scout 8 lets you add your sneak attack damage if you move 10 feet before attacking... Before then, Scout 4 lets you do it on a charge, and you can always move to flank before your single attack.
It loses you 2 BAB, true, but the sneak damage more than makes up for that, plus you get goodies besides. You only lose one combat feat, as you can put two of your four rogue talents to feats via the ninja trick, and one of them to Weapon Focus. This leaves you with one rogue talent to do whatever with (several decent options, nothing amazing)
You'll want to max acrobatics to avoid AoO for this build, naturally. If you're not going the Dodge>Mobility route, consider Skill Focus (Acrobatics) at level 9 or 11, to make it a breeze.
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So, after a two weapon fighting + natrual attack build, I was looking for a simpler melee build.
Basically, a PC that focuses on hitting once, very hard.
I understand the Vital Strike line is in order, but other that, I am unsure how to go about it.
Let's say 15 point buy, all books allowed.
Any suggestions?
I was playing around with a Half-Orc Rogue (Thug+Scout) mixed in with a few levels of Barbarian or Fighter. He used an Earthbreaker, the feats Bludgeoner, Sap Adept and Sap Master as well as the Vital Strike feat line. I think he also took the Orc Bloodline Eldritch Heritage feats to boost his strength and eventually his size... against foes who weren't immune to non-lethal damage his hits were MASSIVE, and they were pretty potent against normal foes as well.
I mixed in Dreadful Carnage and Cornugon Smash with other intimidate options from rogue talents or rage powers so that on a hit I could apply both the sickened and shaken conditions and on a kill I could apply the shaken condition to everyone around me.
I'll be happy to try and actually find the character if you're interested.
hoshi: Is it your contention that there exists a GM in the world that would allow that? Most particularly: charging around on a TRex that is wearing a Girdle of Strength?
This one is an interesting build. It won't work on everything, but it will work on quite a large segment of the monster manual.
Arcane Bloodline Sorcerer.
Your weapon of Choice: Any weapon with a high base damage and a x4 crit range (My favorite is a +1 Spell Storing Tetsubo, but that's just me).
Take Spell Perfection with Mind Fog.
Make sure you have Heighten Spell and Persistent Spell, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus in Enchantment.
Your attack feat is Power Attack.
You spend a few rounds buffing yourself and your weapon of choice (I am thinking of using Enlarge Person, Greater Magic Weapon, and a wand of Lead Blades as just a start. Throw a Maximized Vampiric Touch (using a rod of Lesser Maximize) into the Spell Storing Tetsubo). When you are all ready to go, you cast Time Stop, covering your enemy in Mind Fogs. By the last round of Time Stop, you should have already moved into position where your enemy will be/fall as you ready to cast a Heightened Hold Monster on him when the Time Stop ends.
Next round, you Coup De Grace, hitting for over 160-220 points of damage, depending on if a spell in a spell storing weapon crits when the weapon its in crits.
Chuckle as you watch the GM have to roll a Fort Save of 170-230.
Would not the Alchemist levels and Rogue levels cut down the BAB, and thus cut down the damage from Power Attack?
Rudy2 and Mercurial gave good answers to this. The Alchemist level was just for added STR, and it could be done without. It's the high strength build with a big weapon and a bunch of sneak attack damage added on that makes it painful.
And regarding race, if you took Human, you could take the Focused Study alternate racial ability. This wuld allow you to beef up Bluff or Intimidate (for eaerly-level feints/fears). Then at 8, you could take skill focus (whatever) and qualify for Eldritch Heritage: Orc bloodline feats for more strength.
I don't think they're racial favored class options are all that hot for a rogue, though.
Is precision damage really the way to go about it?
I mean, if you don't like precision damage thematically, then that's one thing. Adding +4d6 damage (from a level 8 Rogue (Scout)) to your one attack/round, though, is not insignificant.
If you're looking only at mechanics, though, it would seem that you won't be able to out-damage hoshi's idea, though I question how many DMs are going to not object to the combination.
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My favorite build for this that I'm just ITCHING to try is a CN Cleric of Lamashtu. You can get both the Demon and Ferocity domains, which grants you access to two massively damage increasing passive abilities that can be triggered on-hit. Combine with one or two buffs and you will be tossing out some pretty sick, and pretty accurate, damage. Channel Smite and Channeling Negative Energy helps, too. Pick up a Spell-Storing Falchion and you can even toss Inflict Spells into the mix.
*Edit: Oh, and maybe Versatile Channeling later on so you can use Channel Smite against the Undead. You are Chaotic Neutral, after all :P
That is a good idea, but not all campaigns favor mounted builds.
Mounts are a messy affair.
I do not favor, or disfavor precision damage, but rather wondered if it was the best route.
I'm putting together something i think you'll find perfect.
Which is THE BEST? I don't really know, but you have some good options to start with here.
Fighter / Rogue is going to have more feats and access to Weapon Spec. And if you go with a Weapon Master Fighter, you'll also get access to WEapon Training at 3, which can be augmented with Dueling Gloves for a +3 bonus... which (assuming you take Weapon Focus/Specialization) would give you a +4 to hit and a +5 to damage. Plus this guy should have an extra feat or two to play with.
Barbarian / Rogue gives you a higher strength score and possibly REckless Abandon to help-offset the bab penalty. Get yourself a furious weapon, and you're dealing with a +4 to attack and a +5 to damage over a non-raging character with a more traditionally-enchanted weapon. Plus you probaly have a few more HP's, but AC will drop when raging.
I'm not sure how to quickly calc some of the details of Davor's Cleric of Lamashtu idea... though then yu're locked into playing a cleric of a specific deity.
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No, go Skulking Slayer (half orc) Scout, use a Merciful Greatclub or Earthbreaker (or heavy flail if you want to have a higher crit range) and go with the Sap master feats.
Starting with an 18 Str
1. Sap Adept
2. Minor magic (doesn't matter)
Surprise Follow Through.
3. Power Attack
4. Major Magic (enlarge Person)
5. Sap Master
6. Combat Trick: Cleave
7. Cleaving Finish
8. Offensive Defense
With one big swing, you can hit just once (with an earthbreaker) for 3d6+9+8d8+8 damage without any magical items (besides the merciful earthbreaker) or about 63.5 average damage. If someone is next to them, you can hit both with one swing, and if someone else is within reach and you knock one down, you can hit three. It could be pretty effective...
Two-Handed Fighter Archetype
STR 18 (16 base +2 race)
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 8
WIS 9
CHA 8
Using a Falchion you are
lvl 1-2 2d4+5
lvl 3 2d4+9
lvl 4-5 2d4+12
lvl 6-7 4d4+12
lvl 8 4d4+13
lvl 9-11 6d4+15
lvl 12-15 6d4+19
lvl 16 8d4+22
lvl 1. power attack
lvl 1. Furious Focus
lvl 2. Weapon focus
lvl 3. Combat Reflexes
lvl 4. Weapon Specialization
lvl 6. Death or glory
lvl 6. Vital Strike
lvl 8. Improved critical
lvl 9. Devastating Strike
lvl 10. Greater Weapon focus
lvl 12. Improved Vital Strike
lvl 12. Greater Weapon Specialization
lvl 14. Improved Devastating Strike
lvl 15.
lvl 16. Greater Vital Strike
They do, generally. But that's not what you asked for.
Sneak Attack just happens to be one of the better ways to stack damage when restricted to a single attack as well. :)
Also, a note on TIfton's build:
It's a solid build,and will consistently produce results. But Death or Glory offers yoru target a counter-attack for free as an immediate action using the same bonus as you get. Food for thought.
i just tossed that in to fill the gap.
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Alright, here we go:
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Human Rogue (Scout & Thug) 14 / Fighter (Two-Handed Fighter) 6
Attributes: 15 point buy
STR 16 (+2 racial bonus, +2 at 11th, 15th and 17th)
DEX 10
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 13 (+1 at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th and 20th)
Traits:
Opportunistic Gambler
??
Feats:
1st (F1) - Skill Focus: Survival, Power Attack, Weapon Focus: Earthbreaker
2nd (F2) - Furious Focus
3rd (R1) - Eldritch Heritage (Touch of Rage)
4th (R2) - Rogue Talent: Offensive Defense
5th (R3) - Bludgeoner
6th (R4) - Rogue Talent: Combat Trick - Sap Adept
7th (R5) - Sap Mastery
8th (R6) - Rogue Talent: Strong Impression
9th (R7) - Vital Strike
10th (F3)
11th (F4) - Improved Eldritch Heritage (Strength of the Beast), Weapon Specialization: Earthbreaker
12th (F5)
13th (F6) - Dreadful Carnage, Improved Vital Strike
14th (R8) - Rogue Talent: Powerful Sneak
15th (R9) - Devastating Strike
16th (R10) - Advanced Rogue Talent: Deadly Sneak
17th (R11) - Greater Eldritch Heritage (Power of Giants)
18th (R12) - Advanced Rogue Talent: Opportunist
19th (R13) - Improved Critical: Earthbreaker
20th (R14) - Advanced Rogue Talent: Feat - Greater Vital Strike
A few things:
You said 'all books', which makes me wonder if you would be okay'ed to use Opportunistic Gambler - if so, you could apply the Touch of Rage feat to yourself and make tremendous use out of it.
This build doesn't require you to spend the first round of combat casting spells like Enlarge Person, and not missing out on the opening round of combat is pretty big, especially for a scout. Later on in the build you get your own much-improved version of Enlarge Person with the Power of Giants ability.
At level 13 (just for an example), you're looking at something like this on a single hit using Sneak Attack if you choose to deal non-lethal damage:
2d6 (Earthbreaker) +4d6 (Improved Vital Strike) +10 (Strength & Overhand Chop) +2 (Weapon Specialization) +1 (Weapon Training) +4d6 (Sneak Attack) +4d6 (Sap Mastery) +16 (Sap Adept) +9 (Power Attack) = 14d6+38 or 87 damage on average.
If the hit takes down the foe, you'll be able to make a very high Intimidate check on every foe within 30' AND gain a +8 to AC for the rest of the round.
If you're forced to deal lethal damage, the results are still impressive:
2d6 (Earthbreaker) +4d6 (Improved Vital Strike) +10 (Strength & Overhand Chop) +2 (Weapon Specialization) +1 (Weapon Training) +4d6 (Sneak Attack) +9 (Power Attack) = 10d6+22 or 57 damage on average per hit.
Damage continues to scale up significantly as you continue to level. Obviously none of this is taking into account Touch of Rage/Opportunistic Gambler, Power of Giants or any magical equipment whatsoever. The numbers could get pretty ridiculous then.
Is Opportunistic Gambler 3rd party? Otherwise, it is fine.
Where is it from?
I'm pretty sure its an AP trait.
EDIT: Its from Second Darkness. Opportunistic Gambler
Is Opportunistic Gambler 3rd party? Otherwise, it is fine.
Where is it from?
I'm pretty sure its an AP trait.
EDIT: Its from Second Darkness. Opportunistic Gambler
I hadn't considered the Skulking Slayer option for this build - I made it long before the Races Guide came out, but it would be a good replacement for Thug in my opinion, changing a lot of those d6's to d8's. The build would only take a little tweaking.
EDIT: Ugh - I just realized. You have to charge to use Skulking Slayer's Bold Strike ability, and right now you can't use any of the Vital Strike line with a charge...
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Seems legit. With good flavoring, my DM would be cool with it.
My hope is to have the build be something I can hand to a buddy when I am not available, and easily figure out how to run it.
Note: My buddies are long time 3.0/3.5/Pathfinder Gamers, so no need to dumb anything down.
I also have been itching to play something based around one single big attack.
Seems legit. With good flavoring, my DM would be cool with it.
My hope is to have the build be something I can hand to a buddy when I am not available, and easily figure out how to run it.
Note: My buddies are long time 3.0/3.5/Pathfinder Gamers, so no need to dumb anything down.
I also have been itching to play something based around one single big attack.
Its actually got a pretty nice buff/debuff effect with Offensive Defense as well as the ability to stack both Shaken and Sicken conditions upon your target at once.
When I role-played this character I actually played him as a Half-Orc who had been raised in the city, but a superstitious one who absolutely hated/was terrified of undead, something that came out naturally as Undead weren't affected by his massive non-lethal attacks.
The thing about sap master is it only works on flat footed targets.
sneak attack requires you have to find a way to deny dex or be flanking.
Scout you have to charge or move 10' to get sneak attack unless they have uncanny dodge then your stuck. the scout build almost requires spring attack build to be funcinal.
The thing about sap master is it only works on flat footed targets.
sneak attack requires you have to find a way to deny dex or be flanking.
Scout you have to charge or move 10' to get sneak attack unless they have uncanny dodge then your stuck. the scout build almost requires spring attack build to be funcinal.
All true, but how often do you come up against opponents with Uncanny Dodge? If it's a lot, then any rogue has problems anyway.
Tifton's straight fighter build is more dependable, but less explosive.
Here's a memorable older thread:
Druid Math
It's a barbarian 1/druid that uses wild shape into a huge creature + the spell Strong Jaw + the feat Vital Strike + the feat Furious Finish. 308 damage on a critical? OUCH!!
Here is my go at maximising 1 hit damage.
Str 18 +1 lvl 4, 8, 12, 16, 20 +2 size = 25 +4 rage = 30 +5 inherant and +6 item = 40
Dex 12
Con 16
Int 10
Wis 12
Cha 07
Featss
lvl 1. Barb1 Exotic Weapon Bastard Sword
lvl 3. Rang 2 Power Attack, Furious Focus
lvl 4. Barb 2 Rage power
lvl 5. Barb 3 Iron will
lvl 6. Figh 1 Vital Strike
lvl 7. Figh 2 Weapon Focus Bastard Sword, Improved Iron Will
lvl 8. Figh 3 Improved critical
lvl 9. Figh 4 Weapon Spec
lvl 10. Figh 5 Devastating Strike
lvl 11. Figh 6 Improved Vital Strike
lvl 12. Figh 7
lvl 13. Figh 8 Improved Devastating Strike
lvl 14. Figh 9 Greater weapon focus
lvl 15. Figh 10
lvl 16. Figh 11 Greater Vital Strike
lvl 17. Figh 12 Penatrating Strike
lvl 18. Figh 13 Greater Weapon Spec
lvl 19. Figh 14
lvl 20. Figh 15
Permanent Enlarge Spell
Huge Bastard Sword +5 3d8
Wand of Lead Blades = 4d8 +
Gloves of Dueling
Greater Vital Strike = 16d8+ 30 from strength (overhead chop) +4 greater spec + 5 enchantment + 24 power attack (greater power attack) +6 devastating strike +5 weapon training and gloves
So i make that 16d8+74 dmg and probably more as i've no doubt missed a few tricks.
I see.
I figured I would see more Barbarian builds, but as I said, I am unfamiliar with this kind of build.
I had a thought - the Rogue Sap builds can get pretty cumbersome trying to track everything and make sure you get all the sneak attack numbers right, PLUS I've seen more than a few debates on the interpretation of those rules.
Here's something a little more straight forward, with the added benefits of things like DR and Superstition and no worries about getting in your sneak attack or whether or not non-lethal damage applies:
Human Fighter [Two Handed Fighter] 6 / Barbarian 14 [Urban Barbarian/Invulnerable Rager]
Attributes
STR 16 (+2 racial bonus, +2 at 13th, 15th and 17th level)
DEX 10
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 13 (+1 at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th and 20th level)
Traits
Opportunistic Gambler
Feats/Rage Powers
1st (F1) - Power Attack, Furious Focus, Skill Focus: Survival
2nd (F2) - Weapon Focus: Greatsword
3rd (F3) - Eldritch Heritage (Orc Bloodline - Touch of Rage)
4th (F4) - Weapon Specialization: Greatsword
5th (B1) - Extra Rage
6th (B2) - Rage Power: Superstition
7th (B3) - Vital Strike
8th (B4) - Rage Power: Lesser Beast Totem
9th (B5) - Devastating Strike
10th (B6) - Rage Power: Beast Totem
11th (B7) - Improved Vital Strike
12th (B8) - Rage Power: Increased DR
13th (B9) - Improved Eldritch Heritage (Orc Bloodline - Strength of the Beast)
14th (B10) - Rage Power: Greater Beast Totem
15th (B11) - Improved Critical: Greatsword
16th (B12) - Rage Power: Increased DR
17th (F5) - Greater Eldritch Heritage (Orc Bloodline - Power of Giants)
18th (F6) - Greater Vital Strike
19th (B13) - Improved Critical: Greatsword
20th (B14) - Rage Power: Increased DR
At level 7 when Raging:
2d6 (Greatsword) +2d6 (Vital Strike) +12 (STR & Overhand Chop) +6 (Power Attack) +2 (Weapon Specialization) = 4d6+20 or 34 average/hit
At level 12 when Raging:
2d6 (Greatsword) +4d6 (Improved Vital Strike) +4 (Devastating Strike) +12 (STR & Overhand Chop) +12 (Power Attack) +2 (Weapon Specialization) = 6d6+30 or 51 average/hit
At level 18 when Raging:
3d6 (Large Greatsword) + 9d6 (Greater Vital Strike) +6 (Devastating Strike) +1 (Weapon Training) +26 (Str & Overhand Chop) +15 (Power Attack) +2 (Weapon Specialization) = 12d6+50 or 92 average per hit
All of that is again without Touch of Rage and without any magical equipment whatsoever... if you throw in a magic weapon, a belt of strength, gloves of dueling, etc. things start to get off the hook. And again, you get a few extra nice things with this build - claws for when you're unarmed, Superstition (and that killer Human favored class option bonus for it), a significantly improved AC and very nice DR and the Pounce ability.
Just for kicks - at level 18 when Raging, Using touch of Rage and wielding the following equipment: Gloves of Dueling, Belt of Giant Strength +6, +5 Flaming Greatsword...
3d6 (Large Greatsword) +5 (enhancement) +1d6 (Flaming) + 9d6 (Greater Vital Strike) +6 (Devastating Strike) +3 (Weapon Training) +32 (Str & Overhand Chop) +15 (Power Attack) +2 (Weapon Specialization) +9 (Touch of Rage) = 13d6+72 or 118 average per hit
Considering that you get claws, you might want to consider a two-handed reach weapon with this build for some free attacks.
Make a Half-Orc Barbarian with the Leadership Feat and a Half-Orc Barbarian Cohort. Look in the Orc Player Companion Book for two feats: Amplified Rage and Warleader's Rage. One increases their rage bonus by +2 for Str/Con. The other allows the orc/half-orc ally to enter rage for free when the other does while in 30'.
Also, if you want a Cavalier that can use it's mount anywhere, you pick a small class (goblin, gnome, halfling, whatever is fun) and a medium size mount. Our Jade Regent game has a gnomish cavalier/summoner on a frilled lizard. She climbs on walls and pokes things with her lance. Its actually the best use for a cavalier I've seen. Smaller means a bit less damage, but lances deal extra damage on a charge, and climbing on walls means less charge obstruction as well.