Path to Mammoth Rider


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Liberty's Edge

Azaelas Fayth wrote:
Bigtuna wrote:


"Hellknight:@Phillip0614: Both paths are feasible for the Oracle. Even more so for a Cleric."
- Clerics get the same spellist as the oracle - but don't get much else that helps the mount, apart from not having to choose between camel and horse (if medium).. The Cha to saves if great for the paladin and it's great for the mount...
Easier access to Lance. Other than that it depends on the second domain.

Easier access to lance, but fewer skill points. An oracle can still dump Int and get to Mammoth Rider, a cleric has to have at least 12 to get in by level 9.


That is true but it is still feasible.

The Exchange

NeoSeraphi wrote:
And the aasimar is actually a worse option. Changing your steed to a magical beast prevents it from being affected by the animal growth spell....

Except Aasimar has a feat that allows you to affect it with animal growth etc.


Ok what kind of mount would this give:

Cavalier 4 and Expert trainer. + Horse master feat
This gives us a mount = char level.

Then Elf or assimar nature oracle 6

And mammoth rider 1 -

That should give us a Lvl 20 mount at lvl 11?
I don't now if the build is worth anything it's more a idea I just got...


Bigtuna wrote:

Ok what kind of mount would this give:

Cavalier 4 and Expert trainer. + Horse master feat
This gives us a mount = char level.

Then Elf or assimar nature oracle 6

And mammoth rider 1 -

That should give us a Lvl 20 mount at lvl 11?
I don't now if the build is worth anything it's more a idea I just got...

Wouldn't work the way you're thinking, I don't believe, since the favored class ability from Elf/Aasimar Oracle specifically states it only adds +1/2 to oracle levels for determining the effect of one revelation. What you would end up with is a mount of level 4 (Cavalier levels) + 6 (Oracle levels) + 3 (1/2 Oracle levels again) + 1 (Mammoth Rider) = 14. You'd end up with a lower level mount than if you went straight Oracle until you prestiged into Mammoth Rider.


Horse Master

My math has it as a Cavalier11 + Oracle9 + Mammoth Rider1 unless I also missed something. NOTE: This assumes the Animal Companion/Mount Stacks.

If they don't you end up with:

1 Cavalier11 AC/Mount.
1 Oracle9 AC/Mount.

With one of them gaining the benefits of Mammoth Rider.


Yeah Horse Rider is pretty sweet. But I think it's clear the feat is meant to only apply to the Cavalier mount. It does give some weight to a Cavalier build alowing for other dips without making the mount worse. So a generic fighter may chose that as a path. Pickup Cavalier at 9th then Mammoth Rider at 10th, being a normal good fighter till then.


LovesTha wrote:
Yeah Horse Rider is pretty sweet. But I think it's clear the feat is meant to only apply to the Cavalier mount. It does give some weight to a Cavalier build alowing for other dips without making the mount worse. So a generic fighter may chose that as a path. Pickup Cavalier at 9th then Mammoth Rider at 10th, being a normal good fighter till then.

You have to be minimum level 4 Cavalier to qualify for Horse Master, as one of the prerequisites is the expert trainer class feature.


Horse Master Requires Expert Trainer which means they must be a level 4 Cavalier.

So Fighter6/Cavalier4/Mammoth Rider1 is possible.

EDIT: Ninja'd


" You'd end up with a lower level mount than if you went straight Oracle until you prestiged into Mammoth Rider" - yes i know - the idea was to get the lvl 20 mount ASAP - I wouldn't recomment this as a build unless you start at midt-level.

But would the effects stack?

" This steed functions as a druid's animal companion, replacing any animal companion or mount gained from another class. The mammoth rider's class levels stack with other classes that grant an animal companion to determine her effective druid level."

the "other classes" part would - i guess - suggest you could gain a lvl 20 animal comp. at level 11. Putting you ahead of the curve :-) But then you would have lost some of the other effects than would make YOU great - but a nice mount though...


Bigtuna wrote:

" You'd end up with a lower level mount than if you went straight Oracle until you prestiged into Mammoth Rider" - yes i know - the idea was to get the lvl 20 mount ASAP - I wouldn't recomment this as a build unless you start at midt-level.

But would the effects stack?

RAW it would stack.

RAI, as laid out by JJ it doesn't stack, giving you a level 9 mount and a level 11 mount.

If you follow the second interpretation a cavalier 4/Druid 15/mammoth rider 1 with horse master and boon companion (for druid) would get one huge mount of level 20 and one druid AC of 19th level.

I prefer the first interpretation following the rules which would indeed give you a level 20 mount at level 11 (With Cavalier/nature oracle + favored class bonus.


The "This steed functions as a druid's animal companion, replacing any animal companion or mount gained from another class." would mean you only get one with the second intepretation.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

*Casts "Resurrect Thread"*

I love some of the ideas mentioned here, but does anyone know of any good solutions to the "my mount is too big/awkward for this dungeon" problem?

The Hostelling armour/shield special ability has been mentioned, but it does not work on size Huge creatures unless the armour (and its wearer) are size Large. Although the Titanic armour special ability was then mentioned, I don't think that that would fly rules-wise.


This PrC fits more in an Outdoor Campaign.


I have to think an Order of the Sword Cavalier could make someone explode on a charge with this class, if he is using his challenge feature.

A lot of good points made with the barbarian and oracle as a qualifier for this class, but I'd have to think the Sword Cavalier would be right up there with damage.

But like most people I don't see how you use this class' defining feature anywhere other than outdoors for the most part. If you can't use the mount, you really seem handicapped.


Azaelas Fayth wrote:
This PrC fits more in an Outdoor Campaign.

I can't recommend those, your character sheet gets caught in a strong wind and you can roll up a new one.


Threeshades wrote:
Azaelas Fayth wrote:
This PrC fits more in an Outdoor Campaign.
I can't recommend those, your character sheet gets caught in a strong wind and you can roll up a new one.

I knew someone would make that joke... Please tell me you at least knew what I was referring to.


Has anyone done a nature oracle/mammoth rider?


Azaelas Fayth wrote:
Threeshades wrote:
Azaelas Fayth wrote:
This PrC fits more in an Outdoor Campaign.
I can't recommend those, your character sheet gets caught in a strong wind and you can roll up a new one.
I knew someone would make that joke... Please tell me you at least knew what I was referring to.

Now that I had a month to process it, i think i realized you mean that the characters are supposed to be outdoors, not the players.

Call it a hypothesis, I'm not entirely sure yet.


Threeshades wrote:
Azaelas Fayth wrote:
Threeshades wrote:
Azaelas Fayth wrote:
This PrC fits more in an Outdoor Campaign.
I can't recommend those, your character sheet gets caught in a strong wind and you can roll up a new one.
I knew someone would make that joke... Please tell me you at least knew what I was referring to.

Now that I had a month to process it, i think i realized you mean that the characters are supposed to be outdoors, not the players.

Call it a hypothesis, I'm not entirely sure yet.

It is always a great day when someone actually plays along...


Might be worth inquiring with the GM about a Figurine of the Concealed Companion.


If I wanted to do a mammoth rider on herolab what would I pick to get the mammoth?


Just to make sure that I am understanding this PRC correctly, it is all about the mount right? Taking archery feats would not be wise (mounted archery, etc) if you want the meanest, most damaging mount out there.


Probably not if you want the BAMF Mount. But that means you might end up playing the Mount and not the Rider.


I have been playing with building a mammoth rider on Herolab. There are some pretty mean combinations. The elk is mean and so is the tiger.


Oh dear now I want to build a Elven Cavalier(Beast Rider, Gendarme) that rides an Elk. I shall call him Nashua Nikae.


Shalafi2412 wrote:
I have been playing with building a mammoth rider on Herolab. There are some pretty mean combinations. The elk is mean and so is the tiger.

The Elk? Really? I wouldn't have figured that. The tiger is mean, yes, but it already gets Pounce, so going all the way up the rage power tree that gives you and your mount Pounce when raging would be less effective.

I would be curious to know which mount has the highest potential damage output if you assume pounce is active.


If you go the barbarian route and grab beast totem tree: Elephant / Mastadon / Woolly Mammoth - High Str and 2 nice attacks. Can take advantage of multi-attack feat and you can expand attacks with claws. Ends up with 5 attacks and pounce.

If you go some other route: Cat (Big) - 1 less Str than elephant and 5 attacks on a pounce. Does not get anything from Multi-attack feat. My Nature Oracle idea listed in this thread uses a Big Cat.

Shadow Lodge

For carrying your huge beast into dungeons, check out the spell Carry Companion from Knights of the Inner Sea. It turns it into a figurine small enough to fit in your palm for as long as you want, then all uou have to do is throw the figurine down while yelling "I choose you, Mega-Pikachu!" and bam, you have your beastie.

I know it wouldnt be nearly optimal, bu t I'd love to see an Empyreal Knight Paladin 12/Mammoth Rider X just for the luls. What's better than a huge celestial tiger? A huge celestial tiger with wings.


That does seem like a nice spell. I wish Hosteling armor would allow you to store the companion in your armor, but it's sadly entirely useless for a Mammoth Rider, much less a Barbarian one, since a Huge companion would only fit in heavy armor of a Large character. While that spell is nice, a barbarian can't use it, so there's another case where it wouldn't help at all.


Well a Barbarian might be able to get their hands on an item to cast the spell a few times per day.


I'm building one out of an Beast Master (Archer) Ranger for Reign of winter. Im not really going for an OP build, I just know its one of the few AP's where I can get away with a Mammoth in town wih no fuss.


Does the new archetype for Barbarians from Animal Archive make for a better Mammoth Rider?


Probably not, the Mad Dog is designed to fight alongside their warbeast, while the mounted fury and mammoth rider are both based on riding the mount. Mad dog gets points for flanking with its beast and stuff; its only advantage is the beast is equal to character level. And you can use Boon Companion for that.


Thanks Gol. That is what I was thinking as well.

At what level would the mounted fury get to get the mammoth mount?


Azaelas Fayth wrote:
Threeshades wrote:
Azaelas Fayth wrote:
Threeshades wrote:
Azaelas Fayth wrote:
This PrC fits more in an Outdoor Campaign.
I can't recommend those, your character sheet gets caught in a strong wind and you can roll up a new one.
I knew someone would make that joke... Please tell me you at least knew what I was referring to.

Now that I had a month to process it, i think i realized you mean that the characters are supposed to be outdoors, not the players.

Call it a hypothesis, I'm not entirely sure yet.

It is always a great day when someone actually plays along...

I don't get it XD

Aaaaaanyways, so, as a general consensus, mounted fury 10 is the best entry into MR?

Liberty's Edge

I Hate Nickelback wrote:


I don't get it XD

Aaaaaanyways, so, as a general consensus, mounted fury 10 is the best entry into MR?

The general consensus is based on what your goal is.

If your goal is to deal maximum melee damage with an enormous ragebeast, then yes. Mounted Fury 10 is the best way to do that.

If your goal is to be a powerful melee fighter with a powerful mount, but also have some other relevance besides outside of combat, then a nature oracle or a druid is probably better for you.


What's the best way to get access to a lance as nature oracle?


1 lvl of cavalier (emissary).

Will net you use of a lance and the mounted combat feat while still maintaining your mount level.


The Heirloom Weapon trait is another possible consideration.

Dark Archive

Been thinking of making a Mounted Fury Nagaji, going into Mammoth Rider to gain a triceratops mount. The thing is, the character has to also be at least halfway competent without his mount in case there is a dungeon or something. Seem viable?


With Animal Ally Feat in Faiths & Philosophies, I think that's doable. It gives you an Animal Companion @ Druid Level -3. Which means that Barbarians don't have to use an archetype that basically removes most of their rage powers to qualify.

Liberty's Edge

I don't have Faiths & Philosophies, so I don't know if there's some kind of special text that overrides this on that particular feat, but as you've described it just now, it wouldn't let you qualify for the Mammoth Rider prestige class.

The Mammoth Rider prestige class requires "Animal companion class feature or mount class feature that progresses an animal companion with at least a druid level of 6".

A feat that grants you an animal companion (even one that progresses as a druid of at least 6th level) is not a class feature and therefore is not sufficient to qualify for the class, similarly to how using wands even with a 1 on your UMD check does not count as spellcasting.

Edit:

Quote:

Been thinking of making a Mounted Fury Nagaji, going into Mammoth Rider to gain a triceratops mount. The thing is, the character has to also be at least halfway competent without his mount in case there is a dungeon or something. Seem viable?

To answer the original question, I have never played a barbarian that was less than "halfway competent" on his own. It's pretty hard to be bad at fighting when you have full martial weapon proficiency and the ability to arbitrarily increase your Strength and Constitution by +4 each as a swift action. Even if all of your feats and rage powers are irrelevant, you still have a weapon and your stats.


The biggest issue with mammoth rider is what to do with a Huge companion. This doesn't come up in every case but will be fairly common in PFS. My current idea is to just skip the mammoth rider and go straight nature oracle with my Grippli/Giant frog combo. The nature oracle has so many great spells to drop on an animal companion through share spell. Nothing quite says OMG like dropping a quickened divine favor and animal growth (pfs gets this instead of awaken) in rnd 1.

Question: Do you have to choose one of the animal companions listed in mammoth rider or can your mount/animal companion from before just get huge.

Liberty's Edge

Lab_Rat wrote:
The biggest issue with mammoth rider is what to do with a Huge companion. This doesn't come up in every case but will be fairly common in PFS. My current idea is to just skip the mammoth rider and go straight nature oracle with my Grippli/Giant frog combo. The nature oracle has so many great spells to drop on an animal companion through share spell. Nothing quite says OMG like dropping a quickened divine favor and animal growth (pfs gets this instead of awaken) in rnd 1.

Nothing quite says "OMG" like dropping a quickened divine favor and animal growth in round 1...except charging straight at the enemy on the back of your already and permanently giant Mammoth who slams, claws, claws, and gores the enemy while you stab it four times with your lance (the first time dealing triple damage and adding half of your mount's Strength modifier to your damage before tripling that as well), then forcing the enemy to make a Fortitude save or be staggered for 1d4 rounds.

Quote:
Question: Do you have to choose one of the animal companions listed in mammoth rider or can your mount/animal companion from before just get huge.

It's right there in the Steed class feature: "This steed functions as a druid's animal companion, replacing any animal companion or mount gained by another class".

If you don't ride one of the listed steeds, it doesn't become huge, because it's not your Steed. The Gigantic Steed class feature only applies to your Steed, not your animal companion, and you can only choose your Steed from the list in the class.


I am working on a Mammoth Rider in the Baba Yaga AP. He is a mounted fury barbarian and they just hit 4th level.

Liberty's Edge

You're right, though, the Mammoth Rider prestige class is not very PFS friendly. However, for those of us who have our own private groups and don't need or use PFS, it's an awesome way to play the savage tribal hunter/warrior effectively and without the need for spellcasting or inappropriately high mental ability scores.


The Golux wrote:
Probably not, the Mad Dog is designed to fight alongside their warbeast, while the mounted fury and mammoth rider are both based on riding the mount. Mad dog gets points for flanking with its beast and stuff; its only advantage is the beast is equal to character level. And you can use Boon Companion for that.

I have been looking into a back-up character for a campaign and thinking about Barbarian going into Mammoth Rider. I really like the Mad Dog Barbarian over Mounted Fury. MF gears towards fighting atop your companion and MD fight alongside it. However MR's mounted abilities happen very late game, 17-18th level. So I do think that MD is just as good in a lot of ways, especially when being mounted all the time depends on your campaign and charging is not gonna happen as much as you would think. MD is more versatile IMO. You fight alongside your animal and when you need to you can ride them. You do not have to take Boon Companion and that is a feat you can use to make up for one of the rage powers you lose. All in all it just depends on what style of play you wanna try.

I wanna go Skinwalker (Werewolf-kin) MD Barbarian into MR. Maybe use a polearm, either horse chopper or glaive. I would go the beast totem/ferocious beast feat route. Spending some feats for the extra rage powers but as I said not having to spend on Boon Companion. The last rage power you lose is at 18th level so that is late game too so not a worry IMO. Add in a huge wolf companion and possibly Canine Lord template I think it would be pretty cool!!!
Thoughts?

Dark Archive

Samurai > Mammoth Rider is also a very viable and potent mix, no feats needed to up the AC as it's a full Druid level one, so you can entirely focus on improving your character with them (they also make surprisingly viable mounted archers, take a big cat and as it pounces around eating people you shoot anyone who is a ranged threat with very little penalty for firing from a charging mount).


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A mountain druid shapeshifting in giant form on his mount could be quite scarry too!

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