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Our rogue uses two short swords and has Two-Weapon Fighting. Other people in our party, and our GM, say that she does not take the TWF penalties if she only makes one attack, even if she is wielding both during the one attack. I am beginning to think that she does take penalties, but I can't find anything in the rules that says this. Does anyone have words of wisdom on this topic?
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Go here .
Multiple Weapons, Iterative Attacks, and Two-Weapon Fighting (page 202): If I have iterative attacks from a high BAB, can I make attacks with different weapons and not incur a two-weapon fighting penalty?Yes. Basically, you only incur TWF penalties if you are trying to get an extra attack per round.
Let's assume you're a 6th-level fighter (BAB +6/+1) holding a longsword in one hand and a light mace in the other. Your possible full attack combinations without using two-weapon fighting are:
(A) longsword at +6, longsword +1
(B) mace +6, mace +1
(C) longsword +6, mace +1
(D) mace +6, longsword +1
All of these combinations result in you making exactly two attacks, one at +6 and one at +1. You're not getting any extra attacks, therefore you're not using the two-weapon fighting rule, and therefore you're not taking any two-weapon fighting penalties.
If you have Quick Draw, you could even start the round wielding only one weapon, make your main attack with it, draw the second weapon as a free action after your first attack, and use that second weapon to make your iterative attack. As long as you're properly using the BAB values for your iterative attacks, and as long as you're not exceeding the number of attacks per round granted by your BAB, you are not considered to be using two-weapon fighting, and therefore do not take any of the penalties for two-weapon fighting.
The two-weapon fighting option in the Core Rulebook specifically refers to getting an extra attack for using a second weapon in your offhand. In the above four examples, there is no extra attack, therefore you're not using two-weapon fighting.
Using the longsword/mace example, if you use two-weapon fighting you actually have fewer options than if you aren't. Your options are (ignoring the primary/off hand penalties):
(A') primary longsword at +6, primary longsword at +1, off hand mace at +6
(B') primary mace at +6, primary mace at +1, off hand longsword at +6
In other words, once you decide you're using two-weapon fighting to get that extra attack on your turn (which you have to decide before you take any attacks on your turn), that decision locks you in to the format of "my primary weapon gets my main attack and my iterative attack, and my off hand weapon only gets the extra attack, and I apply two-weapon fighting penalties."—Sean K Reynolds, 11/04/11
Answered in the Core Rulebook FAQ.
There is no penalty unless you use an additional weapon to gain more attacks than your BAB allows (1 at BAB +1 to +5, 2 at +6 to +10, etc.)
EDIT: Or I could be ninja'd.
Agreed, you only take the negs if you use both weapons. If you make a single attack then your focus is on one strike so logically you would be more accurate.
Yar!
You only take the penalties if you use both weapons to make more attacks in a round than you normally could otherwise.
In fact, if you have a BAB of +6, you could make your first attack with weapon A in your right hand with the +6 bonus, make your second attack with a +1 bonus with weapon B in your left hand, and nothing else, and you STILL will NOT suffer the penalties for TWF.
IF, however, you made a THIRD attack with your first weapon again, THEN and only then would you be by RAW "Two-Weapon Fighting", and would then suffer the penalties on all your attacks.
The SKR quote above says exactly that.
^_^
~P
Actually Pirate, you could only make that third attack if you made the first two attacks with the same weapon, and it would have to be made with the other weapon, because when you use TWF you have to declare one weapon the primary and the other the off hand.
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If you intend to use two-weapon fighting to get an extra attack with an off-hand weapon, you must take the appropriate attack penalty for that weapon for that attack. After the attack you may take a move action instead of making your remaining attacks.
If you made your first attack without that penalty, you can't later get an extra attack with your off-hand weapon in that round. You could still use that weapon for one or more of your iterative attacks; the penalties only apply if you want to take an EXTRA attack with the off-hand weapon.
Technically, if you use two-weapon fighting, you only need to specify which weapon counts as your off-hand weapon for this round. Although it's usually obvious there are times when it's not.
You don't need to designate a 'primary' weapon. The 'primary' weapon is simply any weapon you use that round that isn't the weapon you designated as your off-hand weapon. Only the off-hand weapon you designated can make the extra attacks granted by TWF (and the other feats in the TWF tree). If this weapon is light your penalties for TWF are two points less.
Any weapon EXCEPT your designated off-hand weapon can be used, in any combination, to make your other attacks.
Imagine you have a base attack of +11, TWF, Improved TWF and Quick Draw. You designate the short sword in your left hand as your off-hand weapon for this round. This sets your TWF penalties at -2 for the round. It also means that both the extra attacks granted by TWF and ITWF may only be taken by the weapon in that hand. Your other attacks could be with your battle-axe at +11, then you could drop it as a free action, Quick Draw a dart and throw it at the Mage at +6, then Quick Draw a longsword and 5-foot step up to the Orc and hit it at +1.
This usually doesn't come up simply because people use their big sword as their 'primary' and their small sword as their off-hand every time they TWF and there is usually no need to change it.
Good break down Matt however you could quick draw with the other hand as well for the extra attacks as long as the same weapon isn't used as both primary and off hand.
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Good break down Matt however you could quick draw with the other hand as well for the extra attacks as long as the same weapon isn't used as both primary and off hand.
Spot on!
You could throw your short sword (as an improvised weapon) as your first off-hand attack, then Quick Draw a handaxe for your second.