I would first attempt to find out exactly what the problem that affects your enjoyment is (or if it's a combination of multiple issues).
Have you played other campaigns (published or homebrew) under the same GM and with the same group? How did you enjoy those?
Sit together to speak and try to determine what bothers you with the campaign - too much combat, not enough combat, too much roleplaying, not enough roleplaying, being forced into specific trails (which your mention of GM being inflexible suggests), too dry descriptions, too much descriptions, etc. Try to pinpoint the problem - also determine if everyone has problem with the same aspect of with different aspects. Then you have to tell your GM. Delicately if he tends to get upset, but surely. If you are having no fun with the game then the game does not serve its purpose. There is little worse than turning entertainment into chore to be done.
Determining the exact aspects of the game that bother you prior to speaking with the GM is important because once you know what is unfun to you you might consider ways to handle those aspects and suggest them to GM.
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Offer to GM a one-shot.
This does a few things. First, and speaking from experience, GM's can feel kind of under-appreciated when they're always the one who has to GM. By offering to run a quick game, you show that you're willing to carry some of the load.
Second, you give your GM a bit of a break. Sometimes GMs get kind of burned out. After all, the game can go on if one of the players just isn't feeling it and doesn't show for game night, but the GM has to perform every time.
Third, you can show your GM how you want the game to go. Hopefully, he'll take the hint.
Part of it has been sheer luck. Virtually every session, the GM consistently rolls high and we tend to roll very low. That's not really anyone's fault but it does drag down the enjoyment level.
Another big part of it has been our GM. He's very inflexible and has an...interesting interpretation of certain rules. IE:
Spoiler:Fighting the White Dragon when crossing the Crown of the World, he utilized the Dragon's Ice Shape spell to basically instantly encase two of us completely in ice with no save. According to him, it was completely legal by the rules but we kinda felt like it was a dickish move none the less.When approaching the big black tower at the Crown of the World, we basically got rushed by EVERYTHING that was in the base of the tower; the giant plant monster, the frost wights, the mini-invisible things, and the monsters hiding in the poison moat. He said the noise from trying to cross the bridge alerted everything. We basically just split, there was no way we could handle everything all at once.
I'm sure part of it is we're not using "the correct" tactics as much as we should be and we're not as efficient as we could be, but its starting to feel like we're playing AGAINST our GM.
The adventure path itself is also seeming very "meh."
*Edit* Put in [-spoiler-] tags for you.
You're right, the GM is being an idiot about the AP, because he's screwed you guys on a level that I just absolutely have to facepalm at.
The most important thing you need to remember is that a GM cannot refute physical evidence presented within the different official books.
The White Dragon's "Ice Shape" ability says it functions like the spell Stone Shape, except it is At-Will, and can only be used on Ice and Frost instead; the spell itself does not affect PC's. Unless you have equipment made of Ice, then only that equipment is affected, not the PC's. (I also suggest you show this to him right away, because he's basically spitting in the rulebook's face; regardless of him or you doing a dick move, the RAW is the LAW, and unless he's making an exception to the RAW, it should've been said before the AP even began.)
I also hope the GM took other factors into consideration, such as distance, weather, time of day, character stealth scores/roll offs, etc. Each of the creatures get a separate stealth check, and quite frankly just because they hear something (or something erupts from the other creatures) does not mean said creatures react in the same manner.
I think you are correct in saying that the game has turned into "The GM VS The PCs," because by the sounds of it the GM is trying to think that all of the creatures and such (as well as their abilities) are all there to screw you over. Well, technically they are, but they aren't to be abused the way he seems to be abusing them, and if that's an issue, then you can either have a group talk (with everybody, GM included) about it, can have separate talks if you want; if they're not willing to talk or reconcile anything, then I can only suggest you find a new GM, or if it comes down to it, a new group to play with.
We talked to him a little bit and he seems to understand why we're not really enjoying the game. Part of it is the adventure path itself and he's open to changing it up a bit.
He says he sticks with what is written in the book and we've pointed out that he tends to take things a little too literally.
It happens; the GM gets confused on some things, or takes things the wrong way, and it can make a mishap. These things happen. While it may be unfortunate that there is a severe problem, there are still solutions, and this would require a severe talk-over with your GM and the rest of the group.
It all boils down as to how the PC's and the GM want to all handle the situation, and having a group vote would help out. Some people may want to start from scratch; others may just want to do a different AP, and heck, maybe even let the GM take a break and have one of the PC's take over.
I'm not with the group you play with, so there is no definitive answer I (nor anyone else that's outside the group) can give you, because we don't know the kind of fun, or options you're all thinking about. Talk it over, see what happens, and I hope that the other sessions will progress with less (severe) mistakes.
I recently read through that series. I rather enjoyed it and can tell you that no, it isn't the path, its your DM. We've had a saying since 1st ed,"A killer DM is a lonely DM."
Every adventure is tailored by the guy running it, he should have enough sense and rules savvy to ramp things up or tone them down. Sounds like all you're getting is ramped. He's the DM, he can hose you if he wants, and that bit with the dragon, that was a discrecienary move because he wanted to pure and simple.
Either he really hates running this particular path, or he seriously doesn't want to be DM'ing. Then again, maybe he just doesn't like you guys. Bottom line, the game is NEVER about the DM Vs. the Players, its about having fun. Making sure its fun is the DM's job, if thats not happening you change DM's or he changes his tactics.
It sounds like you have several different issues going on.
-- Unhappy Play
-- Maybe bored or dislike of series
-- Touchy GM
I would not try and solve all three with a single solution. You offering to GM a game as Darksol suggests is a great way to take a break for everyone. But in my opinion, if you do not resolve what ever is making him touchy and for why you are unhappy, you running a game will only put off the problem.
Good Luck with what ever you try to do.
Unless y'all were truly reckless and made a HUGE amount of noise on that bridge it's extremely heavy-handed, cruel, and badmeanfun for the GM to throw the kitchen sink at you relating turning the base of the tower monsters into a single unified garrison.
Moat monsters.... guard the moat. The moat is their home, and their job is to prevent people from crossing the moat. You know what? I think you get my point and a specific example is not required for each monster type in question. it was a dick move.
I was a GM for a VERY long time (happy to be a player now) and I have to say I was (in my GM immaturity) a GM vs. Player GM... I grew out of it. It's sneaky how it happens (I've always been very well meaning and it's important to me that players have a good time and that the stories are memorable, but subconsciously the GM vs. player thing can boil up with people, and if players are reckless or antagonizing or cocky... that can help to bring that out.
What I say though is whether the GM is going to be upset is a FAR secondary concern to nobody having a good time. LUCK often can't be helped (unless you have a cleric with the luck domain! ha-ha!) but if the adventure is Meh... it just may not be y'alls bag, or the GM isn't showing it's best face.
Good on you for wanting to bring it to a head, and by doing so putting a stop to it.
Agreed, talk with your GM. I don't need to know the Adventure Path to know that a GM's responsibility includes fudging the occasional die roll to give the players a fair shot, and your GM isn't doing it.
Some of the APs are also straight up deadly. As a player, I've just completed the 4th Kingmaker installment, and I have been shocked at how many TPK's and near TPK's there have been, as well as how many times opening the wrong door at the wrong time could have led to a TPK (with no warning at all that something's about to happen). And I have a pretty reasonable GM who's fun to play under.
When you talk to your GM, I think the first thing you should do is to ask him whether or not HE is having fun. It sounds like he's enjoying his PC-annihilating glory trip just fine, but as a GM it should get old after a while. A GM should be getting his fun from narrating the story, controlling the pacing, giving life to the NPCs, and running encounters that are memorable for the players.
A couple questions that I didn't see an answer to yet:
Does your GM ever play, or is he always the GM?
If your GM does play as a player, is he fun to play with or does he only have fun when he is fully optimized, dealing the most damage, or best / toughest / most successful person in the party?
Are you friends with the people in your group, or did you become friends because you're in the same group?
If you aren't friends with each other outside of your game time, and your GM isn't fun as a player either, then ejecting him from the group could be another option. "Look, we appreciate that you run the game, but none of us are having fun anymore. Why don't you look into playing a PFS game for a few months?" Changing a group dynamic can have a vastly positive impact on game enjoyment, I know from experience!
You're right, the GM is being an idiot about the AP, because he's screwed you guys on a level that I just absolutely have to facepalm at.The most important thing you need to remember is that a GM cannot refute physical evidence presented within the different official books.
Ahem. Just up front, I agree the GM in this instance seems to have issues. I don't know about the AP itself. But, the "GM cannot refute physical evidence presented within the different official books" bit did make me snort. Whether or not this GM will see reason if his players run stuff by him out of "official" (I assume you mean Paizo) books is open to question, he can always back his interpretation with Rule 0. Reason with him, talk with him, but in the end it's his call. Of course he may end up with unhappy players, or none at all, but that's his decision to make. The "I am right / you are wrong GM" rules lawyer approach isn't probably the best way to go on this... my 2 cp.
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Wait. He's a min/maxxer as a player? Oh dear god. Run boy. Run while you still can!
If running isn't an option, you might point him towards the GameMastery Guide. There are a lot of good ideas in there and for someone that likes to know the ins and out ofs with the rules he should soak it up just fine. Something else for him to soak up thats vital is that not everyone min/maxxes. Some people like to play a less than optimal archer ranger rather than the uber-kill fighter bow weaponmaster because of esthetics, not feat count. The DM doesn't have to min/max, but he does have to know when to lighten up just a little.
Hold on, did you say his girlfriend is part of your usual group? This isn't one of those things where she spends a lot of time with you guys so he started playing to see what shes up to but he feels like he has to compete with your group for time spent with her is it? Subconscious jealousy issues on the part of the DM could explain quite a lot of your problems. Maybe its not a DM Vs Players problem, maybe its Him Vs His Girlfriends buds who are taking away all her time from me I hate those guys...?
Yeah, I'd ride this one out, finish the path if he's up for it, just grin and bear it, and never ever ask him to DM again. Ever.
Might be a dm issue, but I recall in crimson throne the play and dance to the whims of the Shoanti and be oh so desperate to please, would not have gone down with our group or fit their characters. The dm saw this ahead of time, and made some changes. Not all dms make serious changes to the material.
Its a pre-gen so the plot is somewhat set in the sense of how it unfolds. This is of course affected by how the pcs go about the adventure. I remember a dm who ran a game exactly how he wanted it to unfold. Very rail-roaded. Punished players for trying something outside the scope of the adventure. Try to venture outside the campaign which is mapped, grey wall of many opponents appear and kick the party's teeth in. I can understand the set plot but dms who can only run a game for it to unfold exactly how they want will cater to only a select group of gamers. Otherwise, try to talk to the dm. Reason and rationale come into play. If they still don't even budge the slightest, time to find another game or find the same adventure but run by a more objective/flexible dm.
Hold on, did you say his girlfriend is part of your usual group? This isn't one of those things where she spends a lot of time with you guys so he started playing to see what shes up to but he feels like he has to compete with your group for time spent with her is it? Subconscious jealousy issues on the part of the DM could explain quite a lot of your problems. Maybe its not a DM Vs Players problem, maybe its Him Vs His Girlfriends buds who are taking away all her time from me I hate those guys...?She's actually a gamer too so I dont think its that. She enjoys the combat much more than the roleplaying but she DOES enjoy playing and hanging out with us.
And you don't think thats a potential for jealousy on his part? You don't think that maybe thats why he's so competitive when he rolls up his characters? That maybe he's looking to grab her attention by outdoing you guys? Posibly not wanting to loose his alpha male status with her while he's in her group of friends?
Not saying its a major issue but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts thats part of it. Best bet on that situation is to buddy up to him and make him feel welcome. Make him know he's part of the crew rather than some outsider his girl dumped on you guys. Just a thought really, I don't know him or your group dynamics. Either way, hope it all works out.
Urgh alpha males. Hard to get through to them.
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Ending a campaign happens. I've been on both ends of it, both as a player and as DM. The DM's pride will be hurt, but we're big boys (and girls) and we move on (I did) for the sake of being able to keep gaming (which is better than not gaming again).
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Sounds like your GM is currently acting kind of adversarial. Throwing everything at you at once isn't fair or realistic, if you ask me. (I can't always hear the housemates climbing up to the second floor when I'm in the basement, as an RL example; how could every monster in the place attack at once due to "hearing" you?) There aren't too many ways to deal with that if the GM is ultra touchy about it.
Maybe his girlfriend could help address this issue? Even if it's just to suggest ways to address the issue with the GM's play style via a specific communication style, she might be able to help. She would presumably know her boyfriend well enough to help you communicate better with him, by knowing the style that might work best to bring up something less than positive.
Reach for the highs of gaming, but accept your char may die or lose everything.
As a dm, try to run a great game, and don't think of it as losing if your monsters and npcs die. You never had complete control and that is ooookay.
Fear not death for it is your destiny.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/119561-Community-Spotlight-Phoeni x8541
I know I'm fairly tardy to the party on this one but I did want to point something out.
Another big part of it has been our GM. He's very inflexible and has an...interesting interpretation of certain rules. IE:
Fighting the White Dragon when crossing the Crown of the World, he utilized the Dragon's Ice Shape spell to basically instantly encase two of us completely in ice with no save. According to him, it was completely legal by the rules but we kinda felt like it was a dickish move none the less.
He says he sticks with what is written in the book and we've pointed out that he tends to take things a little too literally.
He's not sticking to what's written since that Ice Shape cheese is not listed as part of the dragon's tactics. It's not part of the dragon's tactics because it's not legal by the rules.
Even if one were to interpret Ice Shape very loosely it still wouldn't fly. For two reasons:
1) Using Ice Shape like that effectively makes it function as as the spell Imprisonment, which it isn't because Ice Shape isn't equivalent to a 9th-level spell.
2) If Ice Shape functioned like Imprisonment then why bother giving a Great Wyrm White Dragon a power called Ice Tomb which functions like Imprisonment.
Basically, your GM gave the White Dragon in that encounter a power only usable by a Great Wyrm. If you have a GM that wants to play fast and loose with the rules to tell a "good" story that's fine. But he shouldn't claim to be a by-the-book rules-based GM when he clearly isn't. I don't think your problem is that he's inflexible or takes things too literally. It seems like the bigger issue is that he plays things out to suit his needs and then claims otherwise. That's what you need to discuss with him.