|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
So I noticed one HUGE flaw in S&S and the ranks on the ship. Someone did not do their research with pirate ships
Captain - The Captain of the Pirate ship is voted to that position. His rank and title only are valid when pursuing an enemy ship and attacking an enemy ship or fort. He could be replaced at anytime. Harrigan has the title and at ANY time the crew could turn against him, especially if he did not produce and in 20 days the game I am in the crew is getting tired of no ship action.
Quartermaster - The real leader of the ship. He was voted in after the captain. He commands the ship and decides where it is going with a vote from the crew and maintains order and discipline and distributes the food and other needed items. Plugg technically has this role not grok. By calling Grok this she has higher rank than Plugg and Scourge
Sailing Master - In charge of navigation and sailing the ship. Looked after the maps and instruments. Scourge should be in this role
Boatswain - Supervised the maintenance of the ship and it's supply stores. he inspected the ship, sails and rigging every morning. he was in charge of all deck activities handling of the sails, dropping and weighing anchor and reported to the Captain - Grok should be in this role
Carpenter and Surgeon - In charge of maintenance and repairs to the ship, masts and yards. Worked under the master and boatswain. He checked the hull regularly. Often times he also served as a surgeon on the ship. Sandra at least Surgeon
Master Gunner - In charge of the ships guns and ammo and repaired the guns also sifted the powder to keep it from clumping
Mate - On large ships they had many hence the title first mate who had rank of the mates. Apprentice to Ships master, Boatswain, Carpenter and gunner. Took care of fitting of the ship, making sure they had all the ropes pulleys, sails and rigging that might be needed. Hoisted the anchor
Able Body Sailor - Backbone of the ship had to know rigging, furl and release of sails, steer the ship and applying it to navigation, read the skies, weather, wind, the moods of the officers
Rigger - Sailor assigned to work aloft in the rigging's and to furl and release the sails. By far the most dangerous job NOTE This position would be the one in S&S that Plugg and Scourge would most likely assign the job to who they want to remove first. Someone who can climb would not make since as chances are they might survive
Cabin Boy - Worked as a servant and where usually runaways, kidnapped.
Powder Monkey - Young boys who ran to fetch powder for the gun crews
Swab/Swabbie - Not a rank and was the person who mopped the deck with a swab, had no rank what so ever and would be the job all press ganged would use.
Unsure where you get some/most of the information from (the Wikipedia entry for "Quartermaster" for example is highly dubious and without quotations ), but it is .....well mistaken, if according tp "pirate legend" if not fact.
"Real History" disagrees - except for some rare pirate crews in the late 17th and early 18th century. Let's also take into account that piracy has been a naval pasttime since about 1500 BC, and is still ongoing to this day, from the Mediterranean to the South China Sea, the Malakka straits and recently off Eastern Africa
I'd recommend some decent reading of Angus Konstam, Robert Sanders, David Cordingly and Nigel Cawthorne as contemporary and competent authors.
One should also beware that Samuel Johnston and Daniel Defoe wrote to entertain the public, not as factual chroniclers of their times.
Captains commanded the vessel(s) in general, set targets (unless the crew massively disagreed ) and commanded all military actions, aka "piracy and raiding" as well as the general area of operation. They led by personality and success, or by funding the expedition. Say, like William Kidd. In most cases the boldest and most daring as well as capable was chosen. Things lay even more different for the North American Privateers later in the 18th century.
Where Quartermasters even existed - and they did not in most crews, except during some parts of the buccaneer/golden age period of Carribean piracy - they only commanded the division of spoils, allocation of loot and sales of plunder. They did _not_ run the ship, command it in any significant way (except by acclamation from the entire crew) and could easily, like the captain, be voted out of power in such "ruled by a charter" setups. Of course they had to be literate and well trusted to fulfill the job
And much of the hyperbole about the "rights of quartermasters" comes from the single and unverifiable account of Walter Kennedy, ex-quartermaster of Bartholomew Rogers who actually absconded with almost the entire treasure that crew had assembled, and tried to defend his actions during his trial at the Admirality in London, years later.
Which impressed Daniel Defoe, who wrote down that self-serving account, seeing him in classical terms as the "tribune" of the crew versus the almighty power of the captain.
One wonders though, if the pirates thought in the terms of division of power according to the Roman Republic.
Usually the division of spoils was the privilege of the captain. If he wasn't successful... yeah well. And this was practised, to effect by mostly every well-known pirate in the carribean like Blackbeard, Every, Morgan and as usually etsablished by the pirating articles.
.
.
(Sailing) Masters were, if not the captain themselves, literate and versed in astronomy, mathmatics and cartography, plus always capable sailors. They existed mainly, where the commander of the vessel was either mostly occupied with military (raiding) matters, or was actually not capable of meeting navigational requirements themselves or where a division of command between a military leader (say a Naval Captain) and the actual sailing master existed, who actually stayed with the vessel.
Masters did run the ship, under the general supervision of the captain. Their functions also doubled with possible extra navigators
Carpenters where usually healer's by default, if no more capable healer was onboard, since they had the mechanical "appitude". One should take note that the job of carpenter was extremely valuable to most pirates, since those vessel could not readily dock and repair in any harbour. If the pirates could get their hands on one of these, they'd usually press him, regardless of his attitude, which often enough proved a dreadful fate, even if they escaped
Same was true for actual naval surgeons and surgeon's mates.
Boatswains are usually the most senior members of the (deck-)crew, akin to corporals and mostly being in charge of maintaining crew discipline and seeing the necessary jobs of maintenance being done.
Basically exactly the job of Master Plugg.
Master gunners did not repair the guns, because simply bronze cannons could not be recast or anything on board or outside specialised foundries. They might be, via magic, in Pathfinder. Gun-carriages might be replaced. Powder bags might be sewn for the cannons.
Same would go for catapults (not really used since the Roman Age in the Mediterranean) or Greek Fire siphons but too little is known about actual byzantine naval organization. Still - medieval siege engines were... extremly uncommon on ships for a variety of reasons.
They might just be in charge of a central arsenal of weapons aboard a pirate vessel.... this just doesn't strike me a very rational in a crew of heavily armed, individualistic worshippers of Besmara.
Powder monkeys are an "invention" of the british Royal Navy and appear only late in the 18th century, often as young dependants foisted off onto the navy or merchant fleet to provide a harsh, but reasonably comfortable living. As opposed to starving on land, that is. Regard them as the crew variant of the sea-cadet. In the Royal Navy, that is.
No cabin boys either, which are an invention of Robert Louis Stevenson. Officers were served by stewards, taken from the normal crew.
There is no rank of swab (-bie). Untrained crewmember, being shown the ropes, usually called landsmen or lubbers.
Besides all this, S&S is still a fantasy campaign, and naval ratings and work might just conceivably be very different. Ship by ship, nation by nation...
So, I wouldn't know if this was a HUGE mistake, if the author's vision does actually make sense... and real history sources also not really agreeing on that take, or rather being unverifiable.
....and if we go by "fictional Authors"... I'd say that Tim Powers or Scott Lynch, nevermind Richard Pett, have far more interesting and more logical setups for a crew than Daniel Defoe or Robert Louis Stevenson^^
not really that big a deal most of the roles you listed are filled.
If you read the entry for the officers you will see most of the roles are taken up correctly
Master Gunner is Riaris, no need for powder monkey as there is no gunpowder on the ship. Kipper is the gunners mate though.
Sailing Master is Peppery
Surgeon and Carpenter is Habbly
Cabin Boy is a Cabin Girl, Caulky
Swab/Swabbie and Rigger are jobs as they are operating on a limited crew. Same with able body seaman not enough crew.
Scourge needs to be on deck as does Plugg, they are keeping an eye on the pressganged crew so you can't have them looking after the stores hence I guess why the need for a QM in a general sense.
Shouldn't be a problem if you don't like it, use it for wormwood then change it the way you want it later on when the players have their own ship.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Some good information there, but incomplete - tell me, what was the position or positions historically most often held by spellcasters?
spellcaster : historically most often either navigator (foreseeing weather and choosing the course by the stars, just ask the oracles ) or as master gunner as the "main cannon". A capable wizard would easily be classed as a 36-pounder, longbore.
There may also have been spellcasters either as captains (Dampier was a historic bard, rather obviously), Edward Teach was an alchemist and commander, using strong mutagens on his beard (setting it on fire !), Henry Morgan was undoubtely an alchemist as well (blowing up his own ship ! 'nuff said) or as crew-grade musicians....beating-to-quarters, ahem drumming to battle is most definitely a "bardic performance".
^_^
|
|
My information is taken of information about real pirates. i.e Teach, Black Bart, Calico Jack and Anne Bonny, Charles Vance, Sam Belomey, and more.
Royal navy had the ranks of typical ships where the Captain was the one in charge at all times. Everyone reported to him.
I did not go off Wiki but off many books wrote about pirates and the logs they held and the trials against them
Under the Black Flag is one of the best books for pirate info.
trust e on this... I LOVE pirates and ready as much as I can on them as well as Woods Rodgers, the man who put the Kibosh on the Caribbean pirates.
Pirates where democratic, they voted on everything. If they felt you lacked, they voted you out, stranded you or did you in. A captain that did ot produces results was voted out and another was put in command. Belomey got his command this way, Teach got his this way, Calico Jack his, the list goes on. Black Bart the captain was killed and he, while he was pressed into service took command and became on of the most successful pirates in the Atlantic. Why? because he was damn good at navigation and ran a tight ship.
So while in many cases like Black Bart he did run the ship, his was not a common thing.
Agreed. Let them take a vote and have Harrigan lose. Then let him stick his sword through a couple and vote again. He needs the crew to sail the ship, but they need him not to die.
My information is taken of information about real pirates. i.e Teach, Black Bart, Calico Jack and Anne Bonny, Charles Vance, Sam Belomey, and more.
Royal navy had the ranks of typical ships where the Captain was the one in charge at all times. Everyone reported to him.
I did not go off Wiki but off many books wrote about pirates and the logs they held and the trials against them
Under the Black Flag is one of the best books for pirate info.
trust e on this... I LOVE pirates and ready as much as I can on them as well as Woods Rodgers, the man who put the Kibosh on the Caribbean pirates.
Pirates where democratic, they voted on everything. If they felt you lacked, they voted you out, stranded you or did you in. A captain that did ot produces results was voted out and another was put in command. Belomey got his command this way, Teach got his this way, Calico Jack his, the list goes on. Black Bart the captain was killed and he, while he was pressed into service took command and became on of the most successful pirates in the Atlantic. Why? because he was damn good at navigation and ran a tight ship.
So while in many cases like Black Bart he did run the ship, his was not a common thing.
Sounds like all those background texts are exclusively based on Samuel Johnston's and Defoe's work from the 18th century.
Bartholomew Roberts got the job because he was the sole member of the crew capable of navigation and had been an experienced second mate before. He got demoted after his quartermaster Kennedy tricked them out of their booty, but was quickly reinstated.
Edward Teach was placed in command of his ship by his "superior", Captain Hornigold who later retired (or rather, became a pirate hunter). yes, "given command", navy style.... Teach never was voted into anything and kept his job by having his crew drunk and intimidated... yeah sounds a bit like Harrigan^^. Throughout his short career.
All of this from "Under the Black Flag" aka "Life among the Pirates" by D.Cordingly who really takes apart Blackbeard's legend and the romance associated with his story by Daniel Defoe.
Calico Jack ? Yeah, stole a ship after Charles Vane proved himself a coward (an effective mutiny, setting his former captain adrift in a smack.. well if that is democratic, then so was the "Bounty"^^) and placed himself in command. Vane who previously had cheated the crew out of their loot, was the epitome of ruthless brutality and very close to the image of the "original" autocratic merchant captain.
Nevermind Rackham being a rather unsuccesful pirate preying on small fishing vessels and small, nearly unarmed coastal freighters, famous more for his female associates and running from Nassau just before Woodes Rogers became governor. Rackham was never voted out of anything despite producing little results. Nor was Teach.
Bellamy had a falling out with Hornigold and their ships split ways. Hornigold still being captain and replundering his way up into more infamy. Still being captain when his ship sunk in 1719.
Or what about Francis Drake, Walter Raleigh, Woodes Rogers or Henry Morgan ? Barbarossa or Uluc Ali, the Corsairs ? William Kidd ? Nevermind the pirates of Asia ? None of them being pirates because they were put into place by their feudal rulers ?
Anyway, this is not about being "who is a pirate" but about mixing half-truths, fictions and myths about piracy into one idealized gumbo which utterly contradicts the reality of piracy. No cabin boys, no powder monkeys.... no allmighty quartermasters, whatever Rober Louis Stevenson wrote in "Treasure Island". I don't think the "mistakes" you list should either affect Richard Pett's take on the fiction which still makes mild sense (many other parts of the adventure don't... ), nor are they true as a general fact about pirate crews and setups.
YMMV
Agreed. Let them take a vote and have Harrigan lose. Then let him stick his sword through a couple and vote again. He needs the crew to sail the ship, but they need him not to die.
Precisely what Blackbeard did to intimidate his crew. Simply shot his navigator through the hand, under the table... "to encourage the others" and keep them afraid^^ Given that it seems to have taken 5 or 6 bullets and roughly 20 cuts to actually take him down before being beheaded.... sounds like a high-level bas**rd
Once difference, and what you may need to keep in mind is that historically the captain wasn't a [spolier=]16th level rogue[/spoiler] that 30 crew men have zero chance of besting in a fight. Typically if 20 people pull guns on you (or swords) you do what they say. Captain Harrigan doesn't have to listen to anybody.
My thoughts exactly. Harrigan isn't getting voted out...no matter how they do things on other ships.
The easy answer, regardless of whether the OP's right about the way things are here on Earth, is that this is Golarion. They do things differently on Golarion. Just like Minkai names don't have to follow the rules of Japanese names because they seem similar (yeah, don't ever go dig up that thread)...
M
So I noticed one HUGE flaw in S&S and the ranks on the ship. Someone did not do their research with pirate ships.
Whether or not Harrigan ran his ship this way, this would be a good way for the normally egalitarion player party do divide things up (see Kingmaker)
Allowing the PCs to have these roles initally after the mutany would make sense, but then the GM should start tracking things like the crews "Loyalty" and "Unrest" (again borrowing from Kingmaker), with the game master having threasholds for when the crew would call for a vote ...
Agreed. Let them take a vote and have Harrigan lose. Then let him stick his sword through a couple and vote again. He needs the crew to sail the ship, but they need him not to die.
That would be part of what makes Harrigan a "bad guy" pirate. This would also explain why he is having to acutally pressgang crew ... historically not a big probem for pirate captains.
I think there is some muddying of the waters here because there is a gradient to how pirates ran things. Was it "democratic" if me everyone was allowed to vote sure. If you mean "democratic" in secret un-intimidated where the results are trusty worthy probably not.
Crew member 1: I say we vote for captain.
Crew member 2: I say I should be captain.
Crew member 3: (shoots crewmember 2 in the back) I nominate myself any other canidates. I guess I win by default.
I think the idea that it was always done one way without every any change or variance is an oversimplification.