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I love it and use it on my bard constantly. Maths works out real nice in favor of using it to.
No idea for a fighter. For my goblin dex-based viv. alchemist that uses natural weapons, I just picked it up, should immensely help on damage rounds I can't sneak attack.
It is nice that it's always +2, IIRC Power Attack is only +1 for the offhand weapon?
But you're just fighting with a single rapier? Do you have the str for power attack anyway? If you do, I'd take that, it's a pre-req for other feats while PS is not. If you lack the str 13, then obviously take PS, don't boost your str just to qualify for PA.
It isn't always +2, "This bonus to damage is halved (-50%) if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon."
RAW, if you are TWFing it would seem all damage is halved.
No idea RAI, maybe it has come up before.
If you have the strength I don't think Piranha Strike adds anything over Power Attack. In my case I had 12 strength/18 dex and only realized after words that despite being finessiable Piranha Strike doesn't count for Rapiers, but my GM ruled it was fine.
hmm just noticed that I could also just take Power Attack (as I do have a STR of 13 already) so perhaps that's the easier route - is there any drawback to taking Power Attack over Piranha Strike?
(the only - admittedly edge case I can imagine is if I were ever to get STR damage I'd lose the use of Power Attack - but would still qualify to use Piranha Strike). Power Attack would also be useful when/if I used another weapon - as I do occasionally but likely that's not a very common occurrence for this particular character)
Not really, if you can swing the stat requirement it is the more broad and overall useful feat. Piranha Strike was released to allow the light weapon types to stay competitive in some ways (point buy restricting what stats can be).
As a fighter I would go with Power Attack, "accuracy" is basically a class ability (every level it gets better). Killing things faster is more effective in the long run (and more so at lower levels when ACs are typically more tame at lower levels when there a fewer resources to bump things). Get the weapon focus after.
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The way I read it you can still get 3:1 return from Power Attack for those times when you want 2 hand your Rapier.
Of course you don't get 1.5 x STR, but the way I read raw you would get the extra damage from Power Attack.
I know there are some that disagree with me on account the rapier description says;
"You can't wield a rapier in two hands in order to apply 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus to damage."
I read that as you can't get the benefit of 1.5 STR, others feel it reads that you physically cannot wield a rapier in two hands.
YMMV.
The way I read it you can still get 3:1 return from Power Attack for those times when you want 2 hand your Rapier.
Of course you don't get 1.5 x STR, but the way I read raw you would get the extra damage from Power Attack.
I know there are some that disagree with me on account the rapier description says;
"You can't wield a rapier in two hands in order to apply 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus to damage."
I read that as you can't get the benefit of 1.5 STR, others feel it reads that you physically cannot wield a rapier in two hands.
YMMV.
I think it is more intent, you are using brute force (minimum strength based feat) to use a weapon that isn't made to use brute force (denied the ability to use both hands to inflict more strength damage).
I personally don't have issue with it in games I play/run, but I would also be the first to say the intent isn't being followed in all probability.
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I think it fits thematically. Didn't Inigo Montoya put both hands on his rapier and charge the 6 fingered man?
At any rate I was throwing it out there as an option, an option you don't have with Piranha Strike (i realize piranha strike doesn't even work with a rapier).
I read that as you can't get the benefit of 1.5 STR, others feel it reads that you physically cannot wield a rapier in two hands.
YMMV.
Because of the way Rapiers are built you can't hold them in two hands period.
Although I admit its odd you can hold every other weapon in two hands!
Damn you're right, you can't use Rapiers with Piranha Strike the way the feat is written.
I always assumed PS works with all finesse-able weapons.
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The rapier stacks all the disadvantages of a light weapon on all the disadvantaged of a one handed weapon for a measly +1 average damage. The only reason for it to exist is to get into the duelist PrC because all other dueling weapons (longsword, scimitar, the oriental swords, the Aldori DUELING sword) are slashing: something that says more about the stupidity of the duelist requirements than about the validity of the rapier. If the rapier didn't exist and the duelist didn't have that stupid piercing requirement you would use a kukri or scimitar and never miss the rapier.
Except, if you take Dervish Dance, your Scimitar qualifies for the Duelist abilities.
When wielding a scimitar with one hand, you can use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on melee attack and damage rolls. You treat the scimitar as a one-handed piercing weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a duelist’s precise strike ability). The scimitar must be for a creature of your size. You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand.
While I am not very knowledgeable about actual sword fighting, one of my best friends went to an Arts Highschool in Washington and the only sport was Fencing. He became captain of schools Fencing Team, and later learned how to fight both in Olympic styles and combat styles (how to kill, vs how to score).
He told me there are largely 3 types of Rapiers, ones that are razor sharp, ones that have no blade but are more like a needle, and ones that are meant to be both. The ones that are needle-like and have a sharpened edge are horrible, is what he told me. The blade is too thick to be able to quickly thrust, like the Piercing Rapier does, but it's not heavy enough to be very good at slashing.
The Slashing Rapier is more like a longsword, but lighter. He told me that the actual slashing Rapier could be used in many ways like a longsword, including half-swording.
He explained to me that, as people got more heavily armored, they started developing techniques to counter the armor. Slashing with a sword does sh*t to a guy in full plate, he's basically immune to it. One of the only ways to actually hurt him, is bludgeoning him, or moving your gauntleted hand halfway up the blade (because your hand is protected from the blade), and using both hands to the thrust through the armor. A Rapier could be used in the same way.
He showed me some moves that most people don't know, like that many times they would turn the sword around, swinging while gripping the blade, and using the pommel and handle to bludgeon people to death, or using the pommel to strip the sword from the opponents hands.
You know, I got distracted while typing this and now I've forgotten my point, so I'll just submit this and leave it as is. Maybe it will come back to me.
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I read that as you can't get the benefit of 1.5 STR, others feel it reads that you physically cannot wield a rapier in two hands.
YMMV.
Because of the way Rapiers are built you can't hold them in two hands period.
Although I admit its odd you can hold every other weapon in two hands!
This is probably not the time or place for such a debate, but by RAW I think we both feel we can support our positions... Until it's FAQ'd it will be a GM decision I suppose.
Tels: Regardless of what your point was going to be that was one of the most interesting posts I've read on these boards - thanks for sharing!
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Yeah, I have no idea where I was going with that post. One of those forgotten thoughts I guess.
He told me a great movie to watch is Reclaiming the Blade as it kind of guys more into the history of actual sword combat. I did watch it and it was an awesome movie. It really makes you rethink a lot of things people are so used to from watching movies and playing games. Also, it even shows a brief example of half-swording and using a longsword to bludgeon, which was neat. It also has a fair bit on rapiers because one of the more noteable people interviewed is Bob Anderson, who was a genius with the Rapier and was the man behind some of the best sword fights in the cinema, from the Original Star Wars (he actually put on Darth Vaders suit and did all the lightsaber fights) to duels in Princess Bride and was the trainer for Errol Flynn, the swashbuckler who made it all famous.
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The rapier stacks all the disadvantages of a light weapon on all the disadvantaged of a one handed weapon for a measly +1 average damage. The only reason for it to exist is to get into the duelist PrC because all other dueling weapons (longsword, scimitar, the oriental swords, the Aldori DUELING sword) are slashing: something that says more about the stupidity of the duelist requirements than about the validity of the rapier. If the rapier didn't exist and the duelist didn't have that stupid piercing requirement you would use a kukri or scimitar and never miss the rapier.
Yeah except you are missing the Rapier's greatest advantage.
Style.
If your looking to get a ton of AoO the Lunge feat gives you an extra 5...
Sadly this doesn't work, lunge only gives you additional reach during your turn.
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If your looking to get a ton of AoO the Lunge feat gives you an extra 5...Sadly this doesn't work, lunge only gives you additional reach during your turn.
It does if you use it tactically. You use lunge with a reach weapon to make a standard attack at 15 range. This forces the target to make a standard move to go through your threatened area, double move around you, or switch to a ranged attack. For melee mobs that have multiple attacks, these are all wins.
Functionally, the feats do the same effect and damage, up to and including halving the damage bonus on off hand attacks and secondary natural attacks, the main difference here is that Piranha Strike requires two feats for the same effect as Power Attack, and it is far more limited in scope (only works on light weapons). The only class where the offhand reduction to damage won't make any difference is Monk as they have NO OFFHAND with Unarmed Strikes and Flurry of Blows.