Multiple touch of gracelessness


Rules Questions


No where in Touch of gracelessness does it say the spell does not stack with itself, but ray of enfeeblement does say it does not stack with itself. Would I be able to hit someone more then once with Touch of Gracelessness?

With a single touch, you reduce a creature to a fumbling clown. The target takes a penalty to its Dexterity equal to 1d6+1 per two caster levels (maximum 1d6+5). This penalty cannot drop the target's Dexterity score below 1.

In addition, if the subject moves more than half its speed, it falls prone. If the subject flies, its maneuverability is reduced by one step (perfect maneuverability becomes good, good becomes average, and so on).

A successful Fortitude save halves the penalty to Dexterity and negates the possibility of falling prone or the reduction to fly maneuverabilities.

A coruscating ray springs from your hand. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to strike a target. The subject takes a penalty to Strength equal to 1d6+1 per two caster levels (maximum 1d6+5). The subject's Strength score cannot drop below 1. A successful Fortitude save reduces this penalty by half. This penalty does not stack with itself. Apply the highest penalty instead.


No, as far as I know you can't stack the penalty. I think there's a rule somewhere which says that penalties from the same source can't stack. I remember having several arguments, some of them quite bitter, about stacking Ray of Enfeeblement back in 3.5, which also didn't work. I'm pretty sure Paizo added the line about the RoE penalty not stacking specifically to quell this seemingly never ending debate.

The old 3.5 SRD for RoE just reads:
"A coruscating ray springs from your hand. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to strike a target. The subject takes a penalty to Strength equal to 1d6+1 per two caster levels (maximum 1d6+5). The subject’s Strength score cannot drop below 1."

I'm off to look for the non-stacking rule now...pretty sure it is still in there...

EDIT: Maybe I should have waited to post. Looking at the Pathfinder rules I can't seem to find any mention of penalties from the same source not stacking. Can anybody confirm whether or not such a rule exists? I know there was a ruling back in 3.5 that RoE didn't stack with itself, but I'm not 100% sure what it was based on anymore.


Nope. Multiple penalties from the same spell use the highest penalty. They do not stack, but you count their durations differently. (if one runs out then the other one takes effect until it runs out)

PRD wrote:

Stacking Effects: Spells that provide bonuses or penalties on attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, and other attributes usually do not stack with themselves. More generally, two bonuses of the same type don't stack even if they come from different spells (or from effects other than spells; see Bonus Types, above).

Different Bonus Types: The bonuses or penalties from two different spells stack if the modifiers are of different types. A bonus that doesn't have a type stacks with any bonus.

Same Effect More than Once in Different Strengths: In cases when two or more identical spells are operating in the same area or on the same target, but at different strengths, only the one with the highest strength applies.

Hope this helps,

Pol


Thanks for finding the right rule!

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Multiple touch of gracelessness All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.