Cerulean Seas, omg.... Also, monks should look like mariners


Product Discussion

Paizo Employee Design Manager

So I picked up the Cerulean Seas 3pp material and it is an amazing supplement. If you have any interest in running aquatic campaigns this thing is a must have. In addition to the great rulesets for aquatic combat, beautiful illustrations, and fantastic plaer races, they have a gem that is awesome to behold.
It's a player class called the Mariner. They say it was intended to fill the ranger niche in an aquatic setting, but what you really have is a mobility based fighter that really, really works. While it does have some strong parallels to the ranger, what I really see in the build is something the monk could, and should, have been. It's a martial class that is highly incentivised to use attacks like Spring Attack and abilities like Mobility, coupled with Fast Movement and an array of movement based maneuvers.
Has anyone else looked at this supplement? Any thoughts?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

It's on my list of things to pick up. Wish I had caught the Kickstarter. :(

Paizo Employee Design Manager

TriOmegaZero wrote:
It's on my list of things to pick up. Wish I had caught the Kickstarter. :(

It is amazing dude. I've been working on putting together a campaign in an aquatic setting for some time now, and they completely fleshed out so many ideas that I was having a hard time coming up with good mechanics for. It's a 290 page .pdf, and the races are cool, the art is amazing, and the classes they introduce, the Siren, Kahuna, and Mariner are fantastic and perfect for an aquatic setting. They also included conversions or explanations for how and where all of the Pathfinder Prestige Classes fit in an aquatic setting, as well as introducing a few of their own.

Bump this thing up your list dude, it's one of the best purchases I've made in a while.
They even include print templates in the back so you can print off custom character sheets, setting appropriate minis and "depth" cubes if you have cardstock and a printer. They have like 4 pages dedicated to the different ways to represent depth at the table for 3D combat.


Cerulean Seas is a beautiful book (I only have the .pdf, but you get my drift. HAR! Drift!)

I'd love to see the Mariner converted to a land based class. Talk about the ultimate scout! But I'm terrible at converting anything. But if someone else had the time and the know how and wanted to make this old man happy, they could try to do it!

Paizo Employee Design Manager

DungeonmasterCal wrote:

Cerulean Seas is a beautiful book (I only have the .pdf, but you get my drift. HAR! Drift!)

I'd love to see the Mariner converted to a land based class. Talk about the ultimate scout! But I'm terrible at converting anything. But if someone else had the time and the know how and wanted to make this old man happy, they could try to do it!

I was impressed by the Kahuna, thought the Siren was a fun bard replacement, but that Mariner was just amazing. Well balanced and the perfect mobile fighter. The 1/2 Sneak Attack progression ability Sudden Strike, where you get the extra damage whenever you use one of the mobility based feats from your bonus feat list? Perfect.

I'm helping my players put together their characters for our upcoming campaign using much of the material from the book, and I've already got a player planning on making one of the Kai-lio (centaur-like merpeople) Mariners so he can use Spring Attack to attack with a trident and his Sudden Strike damage while using his Created Current swim stunt to turn the area along his attack path into difficult terrain to help separate enemies from the casting members of the party.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Yeah it was a great book, glad the company is back to make more of them.

Paizo Employee Design Manager

@DMCal
On another thread I posted my first stab at making a monk who uses the mariner mechanics. It's a bit of a work in progress, but let me know what you think.
Monk Rebuild thread


This book is awesome! The psionics supplement also rocks hard!


@Ssalarn
I looked over the monk you're building using the mariner as a foundation. It looks pretty good! I'm trying to imagine it as more of a swashbuckler type fighter, myself. Quick, daring, dashing, all that stuff.


I'm not a video game player at all. When controllers went beyond one joystick and one red thumb-controlled button I was finished. But, my son is a video gamer, and I was watching some cut scenes from the Assassins Creed and Prince of Persia games. THAT'S what I'm looking for. An acrobatic, nimble, and fast fighter. Now if I was any good at building and rebuilding classes and such. Oh, Paizo, why have you not created a system like that in the Advanced Race Guide for building classes? Why? WHY?


Cerulean Seas: Indigo Ice supplement is now out. Now you can adventure under the ice!


Great book. I built the underwater depth models they suggested for figuirnes. Worked great for underwater combat or aerial combat. I used this with the Skull & Shackles AP.


When do we get an underwater AP or mega-module? The setting and Sunke Empires scream to be used...

Paizo Employee Design Manager

Emberion wrote:
Cerulean Seas: Indigo Ice supplement is now out. Now you can adventure under the ice!

Awesome, thanks for the heads up Emberion!

@ Endzeitgeist

I've been using Cerulean Seas to run a homebrew campaign that I'd been working on for quite some time, but an underwater AP or mega-module would be fantastic! It'd also help to open up the setting a bit. Not that Alluria hasn't done an amazing job with their products and the worlds they've created, just that some pre-made adventures would be great for expanding the accessibility of the setting.

Paizo Employee Design Manager

Just wanted to post this link real quick. It looks like Paizo doesn't have Indigo Ice available on their site yet, but RPGNow.com has an awesome deal on a Holiday Bundle with the Cerulean Seas psionic expansion and their new Indigo Ice supplement. They've got them individually as well, or a super holiday bundle including the campaign setting and both supplements for anyone who hasn't had the opportunity to pick this up yet.

Paizo Employee Design Manager

Had a chance to read through Indigo Ice last night, and it is fantastic! I noticed a few more basic editing errors than in the previous two releases, but they were still relatively small and generally of no consequence. The introduction of the artic races was awesome, and I was particularly happy to see that they didn't overlap the niches of any of the existing races. The supplement also finally filled any remaining setting gaps, so there is now full support for every class in the Pathfinder core materials (including the gunslinger!), as well as yet another of their awesome setting specific classes. The angakkuq is like a strange hybrid of oracle, witch, druid, and summoner, with an array of debuffs and detection spells on a bard progression spell list, cool sensory based abilities, and a construct companion somewhere between a true animal companion and an eidolon. Love it!

Scarab Sages

I bought Cerulean Seas and was very impressed. A lot of games set in unusual environments don't work too well, but this was excellent. Recently I also got the Indigo Ice supplement. I'm not done reading that one, but so far it's great as well.

Paizo Employee Design Manager

Zarzulan wrote:
I bought Cerulean Seas and was very impressed. A lot of games set in unusual environments don't work too well, but this was excellent. Recently I also got the Indigo Ice supplement. I'm not done reading that one, but so far it's great as well.

I loved the squawks in Indigo Ice. Something about a race of penguin people who despite being small creatures are the most mechanically perfect fighters in the supplement just did it for me. Alluria also does an incredible job of presenting a solid, well-balanced, product and they have some absolutely beautiful art. They have some art that's also plain out silly (that tiger shark thing that literally looked like a fish with a tiger head grafted on from the main supplement?) but there's an incredible amount of gorgeous work, and every release grows the setting with very little space wasted re-hashing ideas that are already well fleshed out in preceding work.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

Hey guys - glad to hear some love for the Mariner and the other classes I wrote up for Cerulean Seas. They were a lot of fun; Alluria really let me push some uncharted character class concepts instead of relying on rote role-for-role re-creations.

I've been working with them again . . . and, I've long thought all the classes, especially the mariner, could enjoy the enhanced playability of being offered without the campaign-specific ties.

I'll ask about that.

Paizo Employee Design Manager

The-Last-Rogue wrote:

Hey guys - glad to hear some love for the Mariner and the other classes I wrote up for Cerulean Seas. They were a lot of fun; Alluria really let me push some uncharted character class concepts instead of relying on rote role-for-role re-creations.

I've been working with them again . . . and, I've long thought all the classes, especially the mariner, could enjoy the enhanced playability of being offered without the campaign-specific ties.

I'll ask about that.

The mariner is definitely a favorite at our table! The kahuna pulls a close second just for being such a versatile class. I'll be trying out the new angakkuq class from Indigo Ice shortly here, but it definitely seems like an awesome mix of summoner/druid/magus/witch without actually being any of those classes. Did you have any part in that one? Our consensus so far is that it's best played by having your pet tank and channeling your debuffs through his attacks once you're able to snag the feat to do so, but it would be interesting to hear the input of someone who actually worked on the class.


Hi All,
I posted in the gamefinder section but thought I'd throw it i here too. We're looking for a player for our fortnightly Friday evening game in Kings Park, Sydney Australia. We'll be running a 'submerged' Kingmaker adventure path using all Cerulean Seas supplements. Post here if interested.

Andrew


Ssalarn wrote:


The mariner is definitely a favorite at our table! The kahuna pulls a close second just for being such a versatile class. I'll be trying out the new angakkuq class from Indigo Ice shortly here, but it definitely seems like an awesome mix of summoner/druid/magus/witch without actually being any of those classes. Did you have any part in that one? Our consensus so far is that it's best played by having your pet tank and channeling your debuffs through his attacks once you're able to snag the feat to do so, but it would be interesting to hear the input of someone who actually worked on the class.

The enboldenified section basically convinced me to buy the PDF, despite not being a huge fan of psionics.

Paizo Employee Design Manager

Cheapy wrote:
Ssalarn wrote:


The mariner is definitely a favorite at our table! The kahuna pulls a close second just for being such a versatile class. I'll be trying out the new angakkuq class from Indigo Ice shortly here, but it definitely seems like an awesome mix of summoner/druid/magus/witch without actually being any of those classes. Did you have any part in that one? Our consensus so far is that it's best played by having your pet tank and channeling your debuffs through his attacks once you're able to snag the feat to do so, but it would be interesting to hear the input of someone who actually worked on the class.
The enboldenified section basically convinced me to buy the PDF, despite not being a huge fan of psionics.

Indigo Ice wasn't really Psionics focused, that was Waves of Thought...

So did you snag Indigo Ice? What did you think of the Angakkuq? I'll finally get to test drive the class this Saturday and I'm curious to hear about anyone else's experience with it.


Oh right. I think I bought it, but haven't read it yet.

Paizo Employee Design Manager

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Cheapy wrote:
Oh right. I think I bought it, but haven't read it yet.

You'll have to pop in and let us know. I love the whole Cerulean Seas package. Alluria has just done such an amazing job with all 3 Cerulean Seas books, and their classes tend to be really cool, extremely unique, very themey, and best of all... Well balanced.

The Angakkuq has a sweet customizable pet combined with perception-based class abilities and a divine spell list that has no healing (or negligible amounts), but every detection spell and a sweet collection of debuffs. They also have pretty reasonable weapon/armor proficiencies.


Damnit man, you're making me want to shrug off my work to read it...

Silver Crusade

just remembers that he could read it at work

Eh, I better not after the Surprise Breasts of Kobold Quarterly #23.


Do a quick scan for breasts when at Not Work.

You can search the internet for reference material too, to be sure if something is a breast or not.

Silver Crusade

Cheapy wrote:

Do a quick scan for breasts when at Not Work.

UNLIKELY

srsly though, I do need to read this ASAP.


I want to tanks Mikaze again for give me this book, it is really a good one.


I picked these up while gorging on stuff for the Xmas Card sale. Bought way too many things but these three books were among them.

Love the Mariner, and with only some minor tweaking of certain class abilities it could easily be adjusted for a not-water campaign. Definitely going to suggest this to my player who's interested in a monk for my next campaign.


I have the book, and while the Mariner is good, its Sudden Strike is rather "restricted"; it can only be applied when the Mariner uses its bonus feats when attacking. Out of these, only those can be used with Sudden Strike:
Greater Bull Rush
Greater Overrun
Improved Bull Rush
Improved Overrun
Lunge
Shot on the Run
Spring Attack
Whirlwind Attack

Out of these, only Lunge seems to be a viable way to deal Sudden Strike easily. I actually would have loved to get bonus feats like Improved Disarm, Trip and Feint on that list on I could apply Sudden Strike to these actions as well. I mean, Whirlwing Attack is a bonus feat that can use Sudden Strike, so why not get the same bonus when using the rest of the Combat Expertise feats?

Paizo Employee Design Manager

JiCi wrote:

I have the book, and while the Mariner is good, its Sudden Strike is rather "restricted"; it can only be applied when the Mariner uses its bonus feats when attacking. Out of these, only those can be used with Sudden Strike:

Greater Bull Rush
Greater Overrun
Improved Bull Rush
Improved Overrun
Lunge
Shot on the Run
Spring Attack
Whirlwind Attack

Out of these, only Lunge seems to be a viable way to deal Sudden Strike easily. I actually would have loved to get bonus feats like Improved Disarm, Trip and Feint on that list on I could apply Sudden Strike to these actions as well. I mean, Whirlwing Attack is a bonus feat that can use Sudden Strike, so why not get the same bonus when using the rest of the Combat Expertise feats?

Have you actually played using the full rule-set for Cerulean Seas though? Combat is completely different when you're using the rules for bouyancy, plunge weapons, etc. Full attacks are much less likely to occur except under very specific circumstances, so you should be using Spring Attack and Lunge a lot. Also, where did you get that list? There doesn't seem to be any reason I can find in the .pdf that you couldn't use Sudden Strike after utilizing Nimble Moves or Acrobatic Steps, just to name a couple from the list in the book that your list excluded. Step Up should also qualify a Mariner to use Sudden Strike on his following turn which is fantastic, and he should be able to Sudden Strike the round after using Run.

**EDIT** Also, apparently I maintain that I have the right to question someone 21 days after the fact.


Ssalarn wrote:

Have you actually played using the full rule-set for Cerulean Seas though? Combat is completely different when you're using the rules for bouyancy, plunge weapons, etc. Full attacks are much less likely to occur except under very specific circumstances, so you should be using Spring Attack and Lunge a lot. Also, where did you get that list? There doesn't seem to be any reason I can find in the .pdf that you couldn't use Sudden Strike after utilizing Nimble Moves or Acrobatic Steps, just to name a couple from the list in the book that your list excluded. Step Up should also qualify a Mariner to use Sudden Strike on his following turn which is fantastic, and he should be able to Sudden Strike the round after using Run.

**EDIT** Also, apparently I maintain that I have the right to question someone 21 days after the fact.

Where did I get the list? You did read the book, right? Sudden Strike is only usable when using any of the Mariner's bonus feats.

Upon re-reading the rules again, Sudden Strike's wording is... off. It says that you deal extra damage after the use of a bonus feat for the round. The catch: most of them don't allow additional attacks after use. You can't attack after a Bull Rush or an Overrun... unless the rules actually say that you can apply Sudden Strike damage on the round FOLLOWING the use of one of thebonus feats the round before. For instance, if on round 1 I bull rush you, then on round 2 I can Sudden Strike you with my attacks because I bull rushed you. If that's the case, then my complaint isn't valid anymore. Still would I have loved more feats like Dodge, Improved Trip, Disarm and Feint, since you have Whirlwind Attack, which needs Combat Expertise.

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