Playing a Warlord without cheesing off the GM?


Advice

Scarab Sages

I'm getting out from behind the screen to play in someone else's campaign for a bit: low-level starting characters in a relatively open world. I have a character concept which I've wanted to do for a while, but I don't want to create headaches for the rest of the players or the GM.

I'd like to play an up-and-coming warlord. This guy is small potatoes now, but his goal is to be a leader of men and have an army at his command. He's all about high-level strategy and battlefield tactics, and it's his goal to make a name for himself winning battles. He's not going to be some moralistic crusader, nor a rapacious bloodthirsty conqueror: he doesn't have any particular philosophical motivation outside of his own career ambitions, although he'll attach himself to a cause if it puts him in command. He's just fascinated by war and has an affinity for it. (Think of George C Scott's portrayal of Patton) I've chosen Cavalier as his class (for reasons which should be obvious to anyone who knows me at all).

Here's the thing: he's going to want to be a leader and recruit followers wherever he can, but this doesn't necessarily mean that he's going to "Lead" the party. I'm sure I'll have him spending lots of gold on Hirelings and henchmen (he's going to need a retinue) but I don't want this to create tons of paperwork and problems for the GM. (Bringing a small warband with him into a dungeon, for instance, which probably won't work.)

So any ideas on how to make that concept work without hogging the spotlight or making things too difficult for the GM? What as a GM would you NOT want to see from a character like that?

Grand Lodge

First off, talk to the DM about your desires. The DM is the one that will make, or break this concept. Find out what he/she is willing to deal with, and what kind of PCs they want in the campaign.

Do this first.

Scarab Sages

I've talked with him already and he seems okay with the concept. However, many heads are better than one, so I wanted to float the idea here to see if there were any obvious pitfalls we might have missed.

Silver Crusade

It'd be a perfect springboard to Kingmaker's mass combat rules if your DM is willing to use those. If not, other players may not appreciate having to wait for you to manage the retinue at the table, so do as much off table as possible. Taking ranks in Profession: Soldier would make sense.

If he's a Patton, he may just issue orders and appoint capable people to carry them out rather than personally lead each charge. It may open up story hooks from time to time (e.g 2nd company came across a buried obelisk with runes on the outline of a door that has no handle).

When I allowed leadership, a PC brought his 6 dwarf retainers (with him making the 7th dwarf, you can imagine a few chuckles). They were low-key, setting up camp, carrying gear, playing cards and brewing beer. They went into dungeons and generally once a beachhead was established would stay in a secure area if possible till the party scouted ahead. They didn't hog the spotlight nor take up any extra game table time.

On the other hand, if all players are into the idea, it could be a group project.


Honestly I'd see if you can get this, or any GM to run a single-character campaign where you can fully explore this concept. Failing that, maybe try to get a group involved in a "Kingmaker" AP or one styled in the same manner (holdings, titles, ultimate ambitions of rulership) and establish at the start or during the course of that campaign that you don't have to hold all the cards -- but you expect to have all the vassals.

A concept like this cannot HELP or AVOID stealing massive emphasis away from the other players... and if the other players can't find a place in these elements you're bringing to the game that you fancy so much -- they are distractions at best and spotlight hogging at worst.

If you have a really cool and accommodating gaming group -- share your vision with them and see if they'll support you. Have your character take traits like "Noble Scion" and have the GM work in plot-seeds and intrigue that are ABOUT: YOU, Specifically rising to power. The other players should have elements of their backstory that will reward or interest them for helping you accomplish this (Ie, one of the other player's families is owed a great debt by your noble house, which has fallen on hardest times -- it is known that if your house can rise again to prominence, honor and civil justice must be paid by uplifting that other player's fortunes (They get perks -- but only if THEY are instrumental in hoisting you up.) ... Maybe like in Henry the Fifth you had wild companions in your youth, and they hope to capitalize on your success when you gain prominence elsewise (ie, the rogue is confident he can establish his own thieves guild inside of your fiefdom... and with the grace and half a blind eye he'd be owed from you likely run a profitable racket with far fewer people being harmed or being directly effected (A well oiled, disciplined organized crime family instead of the normal gang wars, waylaying, and sneak-thieving... more like an additional "elective tax" on the wealthiest citizens wot that don't pay their protection... that's fair m'lord, eh? Or a Cleric that can expect to be a Cardinal if he's part of your ascent to power... Just give every other character a reason... and share what you enjoy the most about your concept and INCLUDE THEM.

Since the start of history friends of those of noble birth have gathered around and made the best of it, and they've had their own success and good time doing so. If there was any suggestion for a concept that would make an idea like yours work out in a gaming group -- I'd say it would be that one.

...So if the DM and everybody else is cool about it, have your character be a secret bastard of a duke or prince long or recently dead, or some other mistake of birth that makes you a pawn that if your neighboring pieces can get to the other side of the board... you'll become a queen and suddenly the very limits of the board will be within everyone's reach.

Scarab Sages

Those are very good points.

Actually, I want to avoid the whole "I'm building a kingdom with me as the ruler" type of thing, for just those reasons. That's why I want to have him be a warlord rather than an up-and-coming noble. The idea is that this guys is not interested in building and running a kingdom - he's a potential General, not a potential King. I'm actually kind of hoping that one of the other characters will provide a cause or an organization for him to work for/with. Example: I know that one of the players is thinking of making a Paladin, so maybe he can play second-fiddle to that guy and wage war on behalf of his god - so long as he has venue to show off his tactical brilliance and gets to lead men in battle at some point. Failing any "casus belli" provided by another player, he'll probably build a mercenary company and try to involve the other PCs in that or else make his burgeoning cohort a resource for the party to draw on.


That's not a bad idea -- but the crux of getting what you want is making sure everyone else shares your vision. Perhaps the entire party can come up with an organization or an entity that you all can get behind. With you being muscle, paladin being ideology, cleric being religion, etc... maybe try to found a hamlet or colony or trading post with a everyone having a stake in it... but you get to drive the soldiers.


I am currently playing a Cavalier almost exactly like this concept.

It takes a little bit of work, but if everyone agrees to go along with it. Well it is hella fun.

How we done it is my character walked into a Tavern offered a Reward to the last 4 standing. The other players all had their characters as longtime comrades and got pulled into the brawl. And that was actually the very first encounter in the entire campaign was them fighting a bunch of drunken idiots in a tavern.

After they won I gave them the reward and convinced them to join my cohort. When it came to adventures and such they lead. I was the face and combat leader. We ended up establishing a Small Village where I am the Captain of the Guard.

Sorry for the Anecdotal rant...

What I am getting at is pretty much what has been said. Get everyone involved even if you have to step up and break the character concept for a little bit. In my story he only chose to step into the tavern because his former group fled like cowards.


Sounds like a battle herald.. I'd love to play a character like this sometime.


Huh... it does sound like a battle herald...

And Wow... my Cavalier from the story is named Hector Ambros Grath...


PF doesn't lend itself well to effective army tactics, unit battles, and the like.

I've tried to run characters like you describe before including the previous incarnations of the game. This is what seemed to work the best for me.

I was adventuring to get the experience, contacts (future business), and cash to start a mercenary troop.
I was also looking for recruits for officers and 'special' members of the unit. Like adept for medic, expert for scout, giant warforged for special assaults, etc...
Once I started actually building up the troop (leadership feat) I mostly just used them for decoy, patrols, securing area that the party had pacified, etc... Things the GM could handle off line and wouldn't decimate the followers like taking them on a challengine adventure would have done.

Scarab Sages

Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:
PF doesn't lend itself well to effective army tactics, unit battles, and the like.

This is true, although as a GM and a player I do continue in my never-ending quest to marry my twin loves of RPGs and Tabletop Wargames. ^_^

I don't expect to use lots of henchmen and followers in combat often - that's just making life harder for everyone. In the course of normal adventuring, any cohort of men-at-arms that I accrue will be largely for support-staff, logistics, and supply train. However, I will occasionally press for a big battle, because I know that my group is open to that kind of thing every once in a while.


Hmmm... Leadership feat and 1 level of Low Templar for "Flag of Convenience"

Low Templar wrote:
A low templar never suffers a penalty to his Leadership score for moving around frequently, aloofness, cruelty, or the loss of prior cohorts or followers, and can replace lost followers in half the normal amount of time.

Kinda sounds like Patton and McArthur, actually...


blackbloodtroll wrote:

First off, talk to the DM about your desires. The DM is the one that will make, or break this concept. Find out what he/she is willing to deal with, and what kind of PCs they want in the campaign.

Do this first.

I would add: let the other players know as well. I can't speak for anyone else, but personally I find the idea of a PC with an entourage to be a turn-off and I would probably avoid such a party.


The Low Templar sounds like Patton alright...

I would say if the entourage is done correctly it can work out better. after all it means less bookkeeping on the number of rations and such.

Silver Crusade

My current D&D character was modeled rather along these lines. She was an escaped gladiator from the evil Empire of Iuz, determined to one day raise an army to depose him. (You gotta dream big.)

In the game we didn't do all that much differently, except that I was always trying to recruit NPCs into a network that I could call on "When the Time Comes", and I was much more likely to jump at adventure hooks related to fighting the Cult of Iuz. It helped to give purpose to unrelated adventures and string them all together into experience, contacts, and resources, but really didn't affect game play that much.

Once you've got followers, a home-base helps to keep them out of the way. They're not much good in a scrap as they are so far beneath you in levels, that you'll end up losing them, so they're better garrisoned somewhere or performing side-missions for you.

I'd say pick up some property or establish near valuable resources as soon as possible. Gives them some way to be useful, and it's nice to have a "home" you can retire to and feel like someone's got your back while you rest.

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