City of Heroes Shutting Down. WTH?!


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Grand Lodge

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TigerDave wrote:
Free to Play isn't always the last resort of a doomed game.

It is the last resort of a game where the subscription model isn't working out. For several games it's a model that seems to be working well, such as Perfect World's Star Trek Online. LOTR seems to be doing okay. Now I read the NCSoft report that was linked earlier and and COH doesn't look very good on the sales breakdown, the only thing performing less was Guild Wars 1 which is pretty much being bailed out on by players anticipating the sequel.

With Guild Wars 2 and a new Lineage product being hammered together on the shipyard, COH simply doesn't look that healthy on those charts.

Minimal profits on a title aren't enough and if shutting down a lackluster performer helps the red ink situation through selling out some capital hardware or using that hardware to set up for a product launch which will bring in greater returns down the pike, than it makes sense.

What you're seeing in those reports are snapshots, missing is a good deal of under the hood strategy. Such as do I keep COH running or use physical resources for other things such as GW2 or getting Lineage Eternal online. What I don't see any good reason to believe is a dedicated desire to screw over COH players for the lulz as some seem to believe.

Dark Archive

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the team for CoH was seperate from the GW2 and lineage teams, but if NSoft needed more men of the other teams they could've transphered the CoH team instead of firing them


Maybe they couldn't transfer within the budget, maybe they turned down the offer, maybe they just let them go on a Friday with a kick in the ass. Without knowing the inner workings of either team, it's all speculation.

I like free stuff as much as the next guy. But the game we are playing is also a business no matter how we feel about it. I played the game since beta, ran a Golden Age themed Supergroup for about 2 years, then played on and off with a subscription till they went Free to Play, then I played sporadically between other MMO's until the shut down. I love the genre and really liked the setting. But if the game isn't making the money it needs to make, what can they do? After Free to Play fails to make the grade there really isn't any other option. Even if it turns a profit they might have better money making avenues to invest in. Ones that will keep a company thriving instead of running a skeleton crew and hoping for a buyer. Don't get me wrong here, I hate big business, but it is what it is. It's happened to other games and will happen again. Yeah, I will miss it, and I hope I can find another game to fill that niche, but an eight year run for an MMO is still pretty good.


LazarX wrote:
Actually I was F2P and had no problems logging in that last night.

I believe they upgraded all F2P accounts to VIP status for (parts of) the last three months, but closed for the option to sign up new F2P accounts.


TimD wrote:
NCSoft was completely unwilling to entertain anything even remotely close to reasonable for the IP ($80m was their firm asking price if I recall correctly). I can only hope their stocks drop enough that they are soon taken over completely by a rival company who would be willing to sell the CoX IP at a reasonable price.

Makes me wish I won the lotto.

Grand Lodge

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Slaunyeh wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Actually I was F2P and had no problems logging in that last night.
I believe they upgraded all F2P accounts to VIP status for (parts of) the last three months, but closed for the option to sign up new F2P accounts.

Which makes a hell of a lotta sense. Let the old players do their thing until the sunset, but there's no point in signing up new players, especially since they'd have to recode the signup process to exclude paying options and such. And no doubt you'd get the idiots who couldn't figure out that they would entering a game that was shutting down for good and raise Cain when they found out.

The Exchange

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LazarX wrote:
TigerDave wrote:
Free to Play isn't always the last resort of a doomed game.
It is the last resort of a game where the subscription model isn't working out.

Lazar - I caught myself before I wrote a very scathing response to this. I appreciate your opinion, but I really believe that you are allowing your opinions to be formed by assumptions rather than facts. Your first comments about CoH were wrong, and I brought you facts. I also pointed out that the level of profit CoH was bringing in was not big, but to say it wasn't profitable when everyone from studio to sales sheets said it was. The end state is that CoH was making enough money to pay the bills and send some back to Korea. I would also like to encourage you to take a look at how the NCSoft North American market fares in regards to Asian markets. For them to decide to completely pull out of American markets may not be a far cry in the future, as we don't bring the numbers in that their games bring in back home.

Without trying to be an ass, I would like to point out that numerous developer interviews, etc., are talking about how much stronger the F2P model is over the subscription model. It comes down to this: a game either has a small base that is willing to drop $15 a month to subscribe, else it has a significantly larger base that is willing to drop $2 a month for features. I've got several reference links, but I want you to spend some time looking them up for yourself. Here's some hints: Sony, Everquest 2, DCUO, LOTRO, STO, Champions Online, Funcom, Conan, Secret World ...

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

TigerDave wrote:
For them to decide to completely pull out of American markets may not be a far cry in the future, as we don't bring the numbers in that their games bring in back home.

That could be the "stratigic realignment" that NCSoft seems to be hinting at from time to time.

Even so, I think that NCSoft treated the employees of the Paragon Studio rather shabbily.

TigerDave wrote:
Without trying to be an ass, I would like to point out that numerous developer interviews, etc., are talking about how much stronger the F2P model is over the subscription model. It comes down to this: a game either has a small base that is willing to drop $15 a month to subscribe, else it has a significantly larger base that is willing to drop $2 a month for features. I've got several reference links, but I want you to spend some time looking them up for yourself. Here's some hints: Sony, Everquest 2, DCUO, LOTRO, STO, Champions Online, Funcom, Conan, Secret World ...

I don't know about that though. Zynga (who pioneered F2P) is having some problems with this business model.


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TigerDave wrote:
I really believe that you are allowing your opinions to be formed by assumptions rather than facts.

I agree with this. I have made several of the same points, but didn't want to come off as rude in asking that question.

Coming back to the money issue, based on the Korean article, NCSoft's return on COH has been around $2.6 million per business quarter. I won't claim to be an expert on MMO revenues, but that doesn't seem like a "minimal" profit on an established game like this. I suppose if you are expecting "WOW money" that's a disappointment, but otherwise seems a little off.


I never got into CoH but really enjoy Champions, especially in the last year as they have tweaked and made additions to the game. Just wish I had time to play it.

Grand Lodge

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Alex Martin wrote:
TigerDave wrote:
I really believe that you are allowing your opinions to be formed by assumptions rather than facts.

I agree with this. I have made several of the same points, but didn't want to come off as rude in asking that question.

Coming back to the money issue, based on the Korean article, NCSoft's return on COH has been around $2.6 million per business quarter. I won't claim to be an expert on MMO revenues, but that doesn't seem like a "minimal" profit on an established game like this. I suppose if you are expecting "WOW money" that's a disappointment, but otherwise seems a little off.

On the revenue chart, COH is the smallest in returns save for Guild Wars 1, a very thin slice compared to sizable wedges for their other lines.

There are times when it does make sense to shutdown a minimally profitable line if it means getting out a majorly profitable product that much sooner. Especially if resources are limited, and you need to divert them to launch that product.


LazarX wrote:
Alex Martin wrote:
TigerDave wrote:
I really believe that you are allowing your opinions to be formed by assumptions rather than facts.

I agree with this. I have made several of the same points, but didn't want to come off as rude in asking that question.

Coming back to the money issue, based on the Korean article, NCSoft's return on COH has been around $2.6 million per business quarter. I won't claim to be an expert on MMO revenues, but that doesn't seem like a "minimal" profit on an established game like this. I suppose if you are expecting "WOW money" that's a disappointment, but otherwise seems a little off.

On the revenue chart, COH is the smallest in returns save for Guild Wars 1, a very thin slice compared to sizable wedges for their other lines.

There are times when it does make sense to shutdown a minimally profitable line if it means getting out a majorly profitable product that much sooner. Especially if resources are limited, and you need to divert them to launch that product.

So the question is how much NCSoft was spending on maintaining the servers and keeping them running, how old they were and how sensible was to shut down CoH and use the same servers for another purpose instead of investing in new servers for the new project.

The Exchange

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LazarX wrote:

On the revenue chart, COH is the smallest in returns save for Guild Wars 1, a very thin slice compared to sizable wedges for their other lines.

There are times when it does make sense to shutdown a minimally profitable line if it means getting out a majorly profitable product that much sooner. Especially if resources are limited, and you need to divert them to launch that product.

I totally agree with this, and was really trying to point out just how small CoH was in the whole program (and again, the American market is about 1/3 or smaller compared to Asian markets - which I find amazing). I did, however, want to correct the concept that it wasn't profitable. Perhaps the best way is to say "Wasn't profitable ENOUGH."

Drejk wrote:
So the question is how much NCSoft was spending on maintaining the servers and keeping them running, how old they were and how sensible was to shut down CoH and use the same servers for another purpose instead of investing in new servers for the new project.

If Alex Martin's quote of 2+mil is correct, that is pure profit. After paychecks, server status, etc. has been paid, the NCSoft bank account enjoyed 2+mil of profits. So, from a successful game standpoint, this means CoH was meeting all concerns, was netting a conservative sum for the stockholders, and had enough money to fund project development. In fact, I think if NCSoft would have just let go of the project instead of can it, CoH would still have a long life ahead of it.

Getting outside of all the fuss back and forth, I'd like to remember why I loved CoH:

As a teen, my friends and I (as I'm sure many did) had our own comics ideas. We created characters, had pretend product lines, had titles, costumes, drew our own, etc. CoH had it's lore, but the lore wasn't so restrictive that I could "import" those characters and concepts from several decades ago into the system, create characters, and continue a love I've had my entire life. The only thing that made CoH "not fun" was that I never could get into that one guild that made the game the social event that I wanted it to be. Played with a lot of great people and one group that didn't survive, but I sure had a lot of fun. I am going to miss CoH. I enjoy DCUO and Champions, but I am stuck in a very hard-defined universe that requires me to fit their mold. Good games, but they will NEVER take the place of CoH.

This is Midnight Blue/Automoton One/Diamond/Brainstormer/Morning Glory/Power Monger/The Devouring signing off, for the last time.

*sniff*


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TigerDave wrote:
If Alex Martin's quote of 2+mil is correct...

Korea Times:“It is hard to comprehend what NCsoft means when they said they closed it for strategic reasons,” one analyst said.

NCsoft CEO Kim Taek-jin recently stated that he was planning a global acquisition in his bid to expand the company overseas. However, at first-glance the closure of CoH doesn’t seem in line with his plans. “From a revenue stand point, the game contributed something below 3 percent. Still, it seems an unnecessary closure. It won’t help its image,” the analyst added.

Further, in this KT article the company has only piled on to their troubles with investors and money: "NCsoft is facing a critical crossroad with difficulties piling up and its future uncertain. A growing number of investors are casting doubts on its expansion plan abroad, while its growth model has become obsolete. Despite its online role-playing smash hit Blade & Soul the firm’s stock price has fallen to a third of what it was earlier in the year.
The decrease mostly stems from the recent selling of its stocks by CEO Kim Taek-jin to Nexon which became the majority shareholder in June. Without proper explanation by the CEO, investor sentiment became depressed. “A major shareholder selling his stock is never good news for investors, and uncertainty contributed heavily to the drop,” said an analyst at KB Investment & Securities.

The company boss gave an explanation of why he sold the stock, saying it was for a major, collaborative global acquisition with Nexon. But his announcement only raised more questions as he refused to disclose which company the two were looking into. Market analysts predict that if Guild War 2 remains popular and Blade & Soul is successfully launched in China, the firm may find new momentum for growth.

Summary: If your opinion is that NCSoft had some practical business reasons to close COH, then I would say that is correct. It may be unfair to its customer base, but its clear that their motives were about managing their properties to higher profitablity. As TigerDave pointed out, its not that COH wasn't profitable - it just wasn't profitbale enough and had to be pushed aside for the "next big thing."

However, it's also clear that NCSoft is running erratically and managing their affairs poorly - starting with their CEO. So much so that they have their investors confused and panicked out about their stock. They are risking millions while cutting other corners to make a gamble in China and trying to buy a "major" company that they won't even talk about.
(The internet rumor was that it was Valve. Something that their CEO responded to by saying that he'd rather disintegrate the company. So, if true, that worked out well then, uh?)

If your opinion is that NCSoft acted poorly in the matter of COH, you are also correct. The article clearly points out that the F2P business model is something that they don't do (or do often). I'm not sure COH's F2P move wasn't based on desperation as much as ignorance. Given how they have managed investors in their own country, is it any wonder they didn't know how to do a better job of managing a group of customers outside the country?

The Exchange

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Lord Fyre wrote:
I don't know about that though. Zynga (who pioneered F2P) is having some problems with this business model.

Please don't make the mistake of assuming that a good business model is going to support a crappy game.

"However, Zynga's average user engagement (which currently stands at about 25 minutes) is beginning to dwindle. According to Chowdhry, this is happening for three reasons:

"The novelty effect of Zynga games is fading."
"User fatigue is setting in."
"Probably, to boost revenues, Zynga has increased the duration and number of ads in a gameplay, and that is creating [an] intrusive experience for the user."
"From an advertiser perspective, game advertising money comes from the experimental category of ad spend, and the experimental category of ad-spend is shrinking," Chowdhry wrote. "This is will make monetizing of games very difficult for Zynga."


I played solid for the first 5 years, I even made a T-Shirt for Comic Con with my hero on it...totally geeked out...


Still miss this game so very much.

Grand Lodge

If you played CoH on the Justice Server, you might have heard of Justice Radio. JR was the very first streaming music service for Heroes of Paragon, starting our broadcast cycle in the later stages of Beta and running almost until the very end!

I was one of the Founders of JR and like many of you, I too miss the community that surrounded this game! Knowing Jack and Zeb personally and living in Northern California, I was able to leverage access to the Dev Team and receive tons of Schwag for our listeners. Despite my best efforts to give it all away, I ended up finding a pile of bumper stickers. I'd like to share them with the folks who really loved CoH/CoV! Your Quest, should you choose to accept it...

1) Find my contact information in my profile.

2) Send me an e-mail regarding this Quest. I'll send you an address.

3) Send a Self Addressed Stamped Envelope to the provided address. Make it large enough for a bumper sticker (10" x 3").

4) Receive your prize.

Cheers!

The Pope of Paragon

Silver Crusade

I beta tested the game and when we were testing it they never listened to us at all. I saw the CEO (Cryptic) one year outside GenCon sitting in a cafe and I so wanted to go in and tell him off..

All they cared about was putting the game out as fast as possible and getting people to become members by paying for lifetime memberships. Everytime something was wrong in game a lot of people would post the bugs and get into very serious debates and we were always ignored.

It is no reason the game is closing. It was ran into the ground by Cryptic and now PWI owns it. PWI has a terrible track record. I was surprised when the folks from Torchlight actually signed with them to do the MMO version of Torchlight.

Shame the game didn't take off. My friends and I are huge fans of Champions and Heroes system. It could have been a launching pad to get more people playing Champions, but instead it drove people away.


Danubus wrote:


All they cared about was putting the game out as fast as possible and getting people to become members by paying for lifetime memberships. Everytime something was wrong in game a lot of people would post the bugs and get into very serious debates and we were always ignored.

I think you got the wrong game. :) We're talking about City of Heroes, not Champions Online. There actually was a remarkably close relationship between players and developers in CoH, and while they (thankfully) didn't agree with everything we wanted, they did listen to feedback.

I miss the game.

Stupid NCSoft. :(


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Azmyth wrote:
I was one of the Founders of JR and like many of you, I too miss the community that surrounded this game! I'd like to share them with the folks who really loved CoH/CoV! Your Quest, should you choose to accept it...

Hey there, Azmyth! Nice to see you on the boards.

Just wanted to second that I have gotten some of the bumper sticker swag from Azmyth and that it was a nice little treat if you are COH/COV fan. The man will do you right if you want to send in an envelope.

Aside from that, it has been 3 months since shut down and I am missing playing terribly.


~sighs~ I still miss City of Heroes. RIP old friend.

Scarab Sages

As do I, as do I.

Sovereign Court

Never really got that into it. Never understood why are people gushing about it either.

To be honest, though, I generally grow bored of an MMO in about two to three months.


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Hama wrote:

Never really got that into it. Never understood why are people gushing about it either.

To be honest, though, I generally grow bored of an MMO in about two to three months.

Comic book geekdom was a huge part of it. That's what pulled me in. The lack of the standard MMO's 'great equipment chase', especially the lack of the standard 'play full time or always be second rate' so prevalent in other games kept me there.

<crosses arms in X>

I still miss it.

Scarab Sages

It was a game where you actually felt super heroic. My main was a 50 Dark Melee/Super reflexes scrapper that could pull a Leroy Jenkins and live. It also encouraged alting and had a great community.

I created all kinds of tribute characters of character from all over. I made a fairy with a giant box cutter based on Toot-toot from the Dresden files. I made a submachine gun toting wolf spider soldier of Arachnos that was a dead ringer for Jack Burton from Big Trouble in Little China. I made a Street Fighting/Electric Armor brute that was Blanka from Street Fighter. I made characters based off a Druid in D&D and myself using my SCA persona.

It also allowed players to create their own missions and share them with the rest of the community.

It was a game that you could always come back to. It wasn't a large player base compared to WoW, but it was the best one I've experienced in a MMO.


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Out of all the MMOs I've tried, I miss the community in CoH/CoV the most which was a far removed from the kind of jerkass-ism you expect from these games.

And I could spend all day playing with the costume creator.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Imbicatus wrote:
It was a game that you could always come back to. It wasn't a large player base compared to WoW, but it was the best one I've experienced in a MMO.

And, that was the problem. The smaller player base didn't bring in enough profit to satisfy the people at NCSoft.


Hama wrote:
Never really got that into it. Never understood why are people gushing about it either.

Because it was a game we enjoyed. Seriously, what's so hard to understand about that?


Honestly, expecting several millions of users in a monthly payment MMO is not a reasonable threshold any more. And if you don't do that, you won't have luscious graphics, and recruitment suffers as a result. It is a sad situation, but it is difficult to say what would change it. There SHOULD be a market for smaller MMOs. City of X was a unique one, and it was pulled too lightly.


Sissyl wrote:
Honestly, expecting several millions of users in a monthly payment MMO is not a reasonable threshold any more. And if you don't do that, you won't have luscious graphics, and recruitment suffers as a result. It is a sad situation, but it is difficult to say what would change it. There SHOULD be a market for smaller MMOs. City of X was a unique one, and it was pulled too lightly.

It's that last part that bugged me. Apparently it is no longer enough to be making money, the product must be making a whole lot of money. (IIRC CoH was still turning a profit, but only a modest one)


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Sissyl wrote:
Honestly, expecting several millions of users in a monthly payment MMO is not a reasonable threshold any more.

To be honest, I don't think it ever was. Before WoW, a playerbase in the 200,000s was a strong and healthy game. And, really, that's also been true after WoW.

I think the game publishers are finally starting to realize this, as the "MMO Craze" appears to be dying down some. I really like the MMO game format, but the past 10 years have been silly (and surprisingly short on innovation).

That said, for the shock of CoH's termination, I think the main reason it stung as hard as it did was that it seemed to come completely out of the blue. If it had happened after the game had stagnated in "maintenance-mode" for years, I don't think it would have been much of a surprise to anyone. It would still suck for those of us who liked the game, but at least we had probably seen it coming.

That's not what happened though. CoH was gaining momentum, there was a lot of plans, new powersets, new zones, new stories, and the development team seemed really excited and then boom. One day. Game over.

It was unreal.


Thing is... If NCsoft thinks it is underperforming, compared to what else they could use the resources for, and the IP is worth too much to sell, they don't have much of a choice. Small profit doesn't cut it for anyone. It is still money tied up that could do more elsewhere. That is why I say it is a sad, sad world.


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Grey Lensman wrote:
It's that last part that bugged me. Apparently it is no longer enough to be making money, the product must be making a whole lot of money. (IIRC CoH was still turning a profit, but only a modest one)

From a business perspective, it makes sense. If you spend a million dollars to earn two million dollars, that's basically free money right? Why mess with that? But what if you could instead spend that one million dollars to earn ten million dollars? Wouldn't it be financially irresponsible to not pick the second option?

From a business perspective, that makes sense. Assuming, of course, that you're not in a business where people are emotionally invested in your product.

(Of course, stories of the "real reason" circulates, suggesting the decision was not financially motivated at all. At best that's hearsay though, and we might never know for sure. Still, sharing stories of how much NCSoft probably sucks is what keeps us warm at night!)


Slaunyeh wrote:
From a business perspective, it makes sense. If you spend a million dollars to earn two million dollars, that's basically free money right? Why mess with that? But what if you could instead spend that one million dollars to earn ten million dollars? Wouldn't it be financially irresponsible to not pick the second option?

Personally, I would take half of the 2 million dollar profit and invest it towards the potential 10 million dollar profit, and hopefully come out an additional million ahead. The lower paying investment seemed stable, and such things can help during lean times if they happen. But then, I'm not a business exec.


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Hama wrote:
Never really got that into it. Never understood why are people gushing about it either.
Lord Fyre wrote:
And, that was the problem. The smaller player base didn't bring in enough profit to satisfy the people at NCSoft.

Lots of things made it appealing. The fact that it had become - over time - a fairly level MMOPRG (levels, story, player-base, etc.) with an original IP made it very open and appealing. Combined with this was probably the most comprehensive character design system in an MMO - you could almost make any kind of hero or villain to suit your style. From a design standpoint - the game retained a great deal of equitability for all levels. You didn't need to farm/raid for "uber-gear" or draw-out massive tactical plans just to play a pick-up game or get gear or acquire some special trinket. It could appeal to a broad-base without dumbing down its mechanics.

That being said, it was also helped (as others have mentioned) by a good players community that generally didn't segregate itself by the player-type, as for example, WOW has done over the years. It also helped that even after 7-8 years, many of the game studio's designers were still there and still enthusiastic about making a great game.

Using NCSoft's latest release by contrast - Wildstar. On the one hand there is no denying that despite it's cartoonish appearance and quirky sense of humor, it wants to be a WOW in Space style game. The level curve grows steeper; there's intent to map out raid-content in many forms; quest are being highlighted for epic loot; and the large effort to create PVP battleground is already in place. The thing I give the developers credit on is that they seem excited and interested in their game world's growth in way that seems genuine.

As for the issue of money and NCSoft - I think the key word is "satisfy" the company. Basic answer is that while money may have played a factor in NCSoft's decision, their history shows that they also have something an issue with control and management of all their IP's. The fact they have refused to sell or reuse any of their IP's (and none of them what would you call a big license) is some evidence. Add to that they tried to cheat Richard Garriott (who developed Tabula Rasa for them) out of his financial recompense and had to be sued only adds to that reputation.

While COH had a drop in services when they initially went to F2P, all indications were that by the time of the announcement the game was adding subscribers/players since the spring and making more money on add-ons they were selling. Financially, the game was stable and growing. But at the time NC Soft was undergoing a potential buyout/merger with another rival Korean MMO maker (who's name escapes me); the stock was tanking; and a issues with it's corporate management came to light. The speculation was that they turned down several million for IP rights to run the game "as is" at a time when the cash infusion would have helped them.

The point being that - whether the game was as profitable as expected was not the only factor. There was some element of mismanagement that could have been better addressed (and attempts were made to prevent) about the game's closure. That's probably what makes it so bitter for those who played it.

Apologies if that was too much soapbox.

Sovereign Court

You mean they suck at their jobs?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

If you mean NC Soft, pretty much. And by doing so, they have sucked the fun out of all their MMO's as a result (at least to me). It's that potential for messing things up that makes wary of committing to Wildstar with them as the publisher.


I have yet to try any new NCSoft games since they shut down CoH.

Sovereign Court

Wildstar is fun, hard and rewarding. But I will not pay a monthly sub. Ever again.

Scarab Sages

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Wildstar may be the best game on the planet, but I'm not playing it because its NCSoft. I have limited time and budget for gaming, and I'm not going to spend either on a company that has proven it mismanages games.


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So - randomly mentioning this for anyone still positive about the game. Apparently - if Titan's Forum is to be believed: There's some potential for rights to COH to be bought and reopened 'as is.' The gist of the the whole deal is that while someone can run/develop it, NCSoft still retains IP rights. So essentially, they would be still be tied to the company - it doesn't sound like they can buy it outright.

Now I don't hold out much hope and treat this more as wishful forum discussion until something more concrete develops. Many of that forum's members have expressed an equally skeptical response. But they seem to have a legitimate game plan in play and the thread is continually updated with an answer expected in August.
Don't know if it's at all reassuring, but thought I'd pass it along.

Scarab Sages

If it happens I'll be there, but I don't hold out much hope. Even if it does come back, I'm sure they scrapped the servers, so chances are, our characters and accounts are gone and we will be starting from nothing. Even still, I hope it happens.


Sharoth wrote:
I have yet to try any new NCSoft games since they shut down CoH.

+1 to this.

I also make a point of telling anyone thinking about trying NCSoft games that NCSoft has a reputation for killing more MMO's than any other company on the market and actively discourage anyone else from giving NCSoft money.

I'd say RIP CoX, but I'd much prefer for you to rise from your grave.

-TimD


Guild wars is still going, as is Aeon, Guild Wars2, and now Wildstar.

Scarab Sages

Kryzbyn wrote:
Guild wars is still going, as is Aeon, Guild Wars2, and now Wildstar.

List of the fallen.

But if the Richard Garriot Tabula Rasa fiasco and CoX Shutdown isn't reason enough to boycott them, I don't know what is.


9 on the active list also, with the oldest active (Lineage) being over 15 years old.

I guess this is equally compelling to not boycott them then?


Kryzbyn wrote:

9 on the active list also, with the oldest active (Lineage) being over 15 years old.

I guess this is equally compelling to not boycott them then?

I realize that you're just trying to pick a fight (which is, imho, extremely poor taste, but whatev) but people totally have a right to boycot NCSoft for whatever reason they choose.


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limsk wrote:

Out of all the MMOs I've tried, I miss the community in CoH/CoV the most which was a far removed from the kind of jerkass-ism you expect from these games.

And I could spend all day playing with the costume creator.

I allowed my son one hour of computer time daily. After I opened a linked account for him on mine & let him play, he would frequently spend that entire hour fiddling with the Costume Creator, and that was just with the 'open to everyone' costume options.

When I purchased about $50 in credit for him for his birthday, we opened the Mastermind Archetype, the Animal Lord powerset & all the animal themed costume pieces. I had to let him have an entire afternoon that day.
It was also one of the only MMO's on the market with actual mechanics in play for genuine 'Player Created' content.

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