Oceans Domain and Surge ability


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber

What is the PFS position on the Surge ability of the Oceans Domain with regard to the range of the ability. The description in the APG isn't very clear, but from rules questions forums it seems most GMs are allowing a range of 30ft. Certainly this seems much more sensible than making it a melee range ability. So is there any guidance for this when played in PFS games?

Questioned elsewhere making it ranged 30ft.

Another question again consensus is 30ft range.


I know you want some sort of official PFS answer but this is a rules question, there is nothing PFS specific about it. I have flagged it to be moved.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Pirate Rob wrote:
I know you want some sort of official PFS answer but this is a rules question, there is nothing PFS specific about it. I have flagged it to be moved.

Ok, just remove the thread its been on the rules forum anyway

Liberty's Edge

Pirate Rob is correct, this belongs in the rules forum.

However, you cannot make a CMB check at range (unless you have some feat or ability that allows it). This essentially gives you the ability to do a bull rush or drag maneuver with the fluff that it’s a wave or riptide effect.

So basically, you could only do this to someone you could normally do a combat maneuver on and generally you couldn’t do this to someone you don’t threaten.

No idea where folks are getting 30’ from.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Andrew Christian wrote:
No idea where folks are getting 30’ from.

Probably from the precedent that every other enemy-affecting domain power in existence specifies its range. That's enough to raise an eyebrow, in my book. Not to mention that having it be melee-only would also make it the only domain power ever to require an unrelated feat to keep from provoking an AoO to use it (everything else either wouldn't provoke or could be done at range).

-----------------------------

The "official PFS stance" is that it functions "by the book", and any unclear areas are subject to GM interpretation.

So expect table variation.

Liberty's Edge

PRD:Oceans wrote:
Surge (Su): As a standard action, you can cause a mighty wave to appear that pushes or pulls a single creature. Make a combat maneuver check against the target, using your cleric level + your Wisdom modifier as your CMB. If successful, you may pull or push the creature as if using the bull rush or drag combat maneuver. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

First of all, it’s a supernatural ability, which doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity. Second, it says “you may pull or push the creature as if using the bull rush or drag combat maneuver. But you figure your CMB by Cleric Level + Wisdom Mod.

I still don’t see why anyone would think this would be a ranged attack. It is clearly defined as what it is, and based on the fact it is a supernatural ability, means no AoO.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Being a Su ability means no AoO from activating the ability, but performing a combat maneuver would mean an AoO from the target unless you have the appropriate feat. That's what I was talking about when I said this would be the only domain power you'd need a feat to be able to use safely.

That said, I'm not saying it's necessarily supposed to be at range. It could be that they forgot/didn't bother to write "this maneuver doesn't provoke, even if you don't have the associated feats". But right now it doesn't say that. It also doesn't say whether it's melee or ranged when every other offensive domain power does. That should make one question whether the text is complete.

Liberty's Edge

Jiggy wrote:

Being a Su ability means no AoO from activating the ability, but performing a combat maneuver would mean an AoO from the target unless you have the appropriate feat. That's what I was talking about when I said this would be the only domain power you'd need a feat to be able to use safely.

That said, I'm not saying it's necessarily supposed to be at range. It could be that they forgot/didn't bother to write "this maneuver doesn't provoke, even if you don't have the associated feats". But right now it doesn't say that. It also doesn't say whether it's melee or ranged when every other offensive domain power does. That should make one question whether the text is complete.

The ability IS the combat maneuver. You aren't activating a supernatural ability, and then taking a separate actual combat maneuver.

Using this ability would not provoke an AoO.

Why does it need to declare melee or ranged attack? Its neither.

Its a combat maneuver. Which requires you to be able to reach your target (which in most cases means within 5').

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Well I'm glad you think it's so clear, Andrew/Bbauzh, but James Jacobs disagrees:

Comment from James Jacobs:

Quote:

First off, this is obviously needing some errata, and so you should make this post in the proper thread as well and hit the FAQ button.

In the meantime... I'd say the range should be 60 feet. That's a completely arbitrary choice, though.

Here is a thread for collecting FAQ clicks.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Thanks for the James Jacobs ref, it does help.

along with previous rules posts

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