[Fire Mountain Games] Throne of Night


Product Discussion

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Well, their website says Volume 2 "continues and completes" the campaign started in Volume 1, so... XD


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Guang wrote:
GM Rednal wrote:
If you want another underground adventure, Cyclopean Deeps from Frog God Games may be worth examining. It's complete at two large volumes, and available right here on Paizo.com (PDF version, printed version also available), as well as FGG's website (Free PDF with printed book).
I actually wouldn't call it complete. 2 areas out of, what, 15? 20? fully detailed. Seems more like a long-term series that may get gradually filled out to me.

I think you're thinking of: Down to Ques Querax and Eye of the Titan which were the first two Cyclopean Depths instalments (released as stretch goals for the Rappan Athuk kickstarter) and which only detail a couple of the hexes. As you suggested, they were the start of a long-term series which was then filled out. The completed series was then published in two volumes:

The first volume includes those first two as its first two chapters.

The second volume completes the area.

Those later two detail all of the various hexes, although it's worth noting that it's very much an 'underground sandbox' rather than a campaign in the more modern "Adventure Path" style.

EDIT: I've also linked the Frog God Games site directly, as it looks to me as though there's some mixup in the paizo.com listing. (The first chapter shouldn't be $16.99 as it shows in the link above).


Steve: My bad. And also thank you! I had no idea I was missing that. FGG releases can be confusing.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Guang wrote:

Steve: My bad. And also thank you! I had no idea I was missing that. FGG releases can be confusing.

Yeah - they have an ongoing issue with naming/numbering conventions due to releasing 'prototypes' then expanding on them later, although I think things are improving on that front.

The "quests of doom" series has similar confusing numbering.


I also used several Purple Mountain levels to fill things out.

Grand Lodge

tumbler wrote:
I also used several Purple Mountain levels to fill things out.

I bought the bundle, but still need to read it.


Thanks for all the links and suggestions! Look forward to running this.

Grand Lodge

Rifts Guy wrote:
Thanks for all the links and suggestions! Look forward to running this.

Welcome. And believe me, many of us want to run it as well. At least with the links you can stall or do your own thing.

Grand Lodge

If you guys need anything, let me know. I'm kind of bored. More or les just waiting on the local gaming convention to start next week.

Other than that, it's the same old waiting game for KS.


So I'm running this game in the Terwa Uplands on the Garundi continent. I'm trying to find information on the Mbe'ke dwarves and maybe a map or description of the Terwa Uplands but there doesn't seem to be a lot.

Does anybody have any suggestions? Currently I'm running the Mbe'ke dwarves like standard dwarves except they have been influenced by Mwangi cultures.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

kevin_video wrote:
More or les just waiting on the local gaming convention to start next week.

How big is PrairieCon getting these days? Are the Brandon events comparable to the Winnipeg ones?

Grand Lodge

Rifts Guy wrote:

So I'm running this game in the Terwa Uplands on the Garundi continent. I'm trying to find information on the Mbe'ke dwarves and maybe a map or description of the Terwa Uplands but there doesn't seem to be a lot.

Does anybody have any suggestions? Currently I'm running the Mbe'ke dwarves like standard dwarves except they have been influenced by Mwangi cultures.

That would be an Ask James Jacobs question. He'd know better than any of us.

Grand Lodge

Banesfinger wrote:
kevin_video wrote:
More or les just waiting on the local gaming convention to start next week.
How big is PrairieCon getting these days? Are the Brandon events comparable to the Winnipeg ones?

It can be, but Winnipeg has way more people. Coming here usually means a road trip. Our players come from as far as Regina and Kenora. PrairieCon has been around for nearly 40 years, but isn't getting any bigger than in previous years. It fluctuates because usually it's the same weekend as the Summer Fair. This year, the Fair is the week after so we're hoping to get those people back.

Grand Lodge

kevin_video wrote:
Rifts Guy wrote:

So I'm running this game in the Terwa Uplands on the Garundi continent. I'm trying to find information on the Mbe'ke dwarves and maybe a map or description of the Terwa Uplands but there doesn't seem to be a lot.

Does anybody have any suggestions? Currently I'm running the Mbe'ke dwarves like standard dwarves except they have been influenced by Mwangi cultures.

That would be an Ask James Jacobs question. He'd know better than any of us.

And he replied to the question, saying:

"If it's not in "Heart of the Jungle," I'm pretty sure we haven't said much about this subject at all. Which means [you have] a lot of room to come up with [your] own stuff for the dwarves and map and all that."


kevin_video wrote:


And he replied to the question, saying:
"If it's not in "Heart of the Jungle," I'm pretty sure we haven't said much about this subject at all. Which means [you have] a lot of room to come up with [your] own stuff for the dwarves and map and all that."

Thanks kevin_video. I'd rather have somebody else come up with that stuff for me to save me a bunch of time but looks like I'm on my own. I'll post up what I come up with when it's done.

Grand Lodge

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Not sure if anything else would be of much use for this particular AP, but check out Wayfinder 15 for the poison known as glutton's grease. It's particularly useful against dwarves. If you're playing drow, that could come in handy. Or, it could be used against the duergar. There's a few magic items and class archetypes that could come in handy as well. Guess it would depend on how the kingdom rules work for these scenarios. Still, if you're doing your own game, and using kingdom building rules, the free magazine "by fans, for fans" will definitely come in handy.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Card Game, Rulebook Subscriber

I don't know how well it would integrate with this campaign, or if its been mentioned yet, but AAW does have their Rise of the Drow AP; and in a semi-connected vein, I did three adventures set in a dwarven city for them.

Grand Lodge

Wicht wrote:
I don't know how well it would integrate with this campaign, or if its been mentioned yet, but AAW does have their Rise of the Drow AP; and in a semi-connected vein, I did three adventures set in a dwarven city for them.

Yeah, that's one of the three adventures sets that we originally suggested, and now it's a full AP. It works well enough for either side.

And you guys may or may not have seen it, but 20% off for Memorial Day coupon was just released today by Gary.


kevin_video wrote:


And you guys may or may not have seen it, but 20% off for Memorial Day coupon was just released today by Gary.

Yeah... just got my "hey, I took all your money and spent it 3 years ago for some stuff I promised to deliver in March of 2014, can I have some more?" ... email.

Just slap me in the face and laugh at me instead.


Yeah! Old scotish proverb: "Fool me once - shame on you! Fool me twice - shame on me!"

Grand Lodge

I don't think most of us could give him anymore money. I bought Way of the Wicked when it first came out, at regular price. Then this KS. He doesn't have anything left for me to buy.
Paizo's newsletter says WotW Book 1 is at #6 of the Top 10. That's higher than last week. So it's entirely possible the coupon is meant for the new people getting into his finished work.


kevin_video wrote:
Not sure if anything else would be of much use for this particular AP, but check out Wayfinder 15 for the poison known as glutton's grease. It's particularly useful against dwarves. If you're playing drow, that could come in handy. Or, it could be used against the duergar. There's a few magic items and class archetypes that could come in handy as well. Guess it would depend on how the kingdom rules work for these scenarios. Still, if you're doing your own game, and using kingdom building rules, the free magazine "by fans, for fans" will definitely come in handy.

Free is always in my price range!

I'll have a looksee at it if I get a chance. I've got a bunch of stuff and I literally don't have the time to read through everything that I should be reading. I've been reading through the suggested adventures you could use to run the rest of this AP and I'm slowly putting together something but I've got to admit my game is going to be a complete re-imagining of the adventure path.

For one I've already tripled the size of the first map of Upper Azathyr (or Nar Voth as it's known on Golarion) and I'll be adding the gnome kingdom and a few other places. I'm also adding a ruined city of mongrelmen because I really like the old Lost City module from back in the day and I've decided to add it to my game.

In the end I have just made the Mbe'ke like a regular dwarf clan except a lot more tanned.

Just realized I could host a playthrough on here! Link to interest check - http://paizo.com/campaigns/ThroneOfNight2nyr7/recruiting#1


Firstbourne wrote:
kevin_video wrote:


And you guys may or may not have seen it, but 20% off for Memorial Day coupon was just released today by Gary.

Yeah... just got my "hey, I took all your money and spent it 3 years ago for some stuff I promised to deliver in March of 2014, can I have some more?" ... email.

Just slap me in the face and laugh at me instead.

Things I've learned from Kickstarter thieves: Don't give money to people named Gary.


kevin_video wrote:

I don't think most of us could give him anymore money. I bought Way of the Wicked when it first came out, at regular price. Then this KS. He doesn't have anything left for me to buy.

Paizo's newsletter says WotW Book 1 is at #6 of the Top 10. That's higher than last week. So it's entirely possible the coupon is meant for the new people getting into his finished work.

More likely that DriveThruRPG has a setting where you can set automated sales periods for holidays and such and given all of us have bought or store our stuff on DTRPG, we are on the automated distro.


Rifts Guy wrote:
I'll be adding the gnome kingdom

If you're going to detail Kladdenvalt or Voldenhammer, I'd love to see it.


Guang wrote:
Rifts Guy wrote:
I'll be adding the gnome kingdom
If you're going to detail Kladdenvalt or Voldenhammer, I'd love to see it.

Me to! Honestly I'm probably going to steal it wholesale from another module, if I can find a gnome city, and just rename some stuff and change around a few Major NPCs. If I find something that suits I'll post it up here and pretend I actually did some work.;)


For what it's worth, Rappan Athuk has a goblin city that you could replace with gnomes. XD Change the fluff on the walls a bit, add a few buildings, and presto.

(Rappan Athuk Expansions volume 1 has a much smaller cave city - more of a town or an outpost, really - if you didn't want something that big.)


I ran across an article thought people in this thread might be interested in reading, if you all haven't yet:

article

Seems like history really does repeat itself.
Hopefully ToN has a similar ending to its story - i.e. fully printed and popular.


Guang wrote:

I ran across an article thought people in this thread might be interested in reading, if you all haven't yet:

article

Seems like history really does repeat itself.
Hopefully ToN has a similar ending to its story - i.e. fully printed and popular.

The article mentions Logue giving people refunds - I wish that was an option in our case.


Well that was a fairly hateful article that prove to be wrong.

My only concern is that Razor Coast was much further along than TON at the three year point. Plus Nick Logue was able to hold his hands up to say how and why he messed up.

Nick's message to backers and the community was both heartfelt and emotional, and bought him a lot of goodwill and understanding. In comparison Gary doesn't offer even a glimmer of contrition or respect for his backers.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Card Game, Rulebook Subscriber
The Sword wrote:

Well that was a fairly hateful article that prove to be wrong.

My only concern is that Razor Coast was much further along than TON at the three year point. Plus Nick Logue was able to hold his hands up to say how and why he messed up.

Nick's message to backers and the community was both heartfelt and emotional, and bought him a lot of goodwill and understanding. In comparison Gary doesn't offer even a glimmer of contrition or respect for his backers.

I think you are talking from the vantage of hindsight. There was a period when there was no communication, no apology, and a great deal of angst. It just managed to get resolved eventually.

The moral of which is, things can change. What seems a catastrophe now might get resolved down the road a bit.


Guang wrote:

Seems like history really does repeat itself.

Hopefully ToN has a similar ending to its story - i.e. fully printed and popular.

Yeah well.........if wishes were horses, then beggars would ride, eh?!

Wicht wrote:
The moral of which is, things can change. What seems a catastrophe now might get resolved down the road a bit.

It might be - if McBride follows Nick Logue´s footsteps in resolving the thing - by selling it off to a company that can deliver and offering refunds to those who want them. Which I doubt. But let´s see.

Also, while no excuse for the period of silence on Nick Logues part - Razor Coast was arguably WRITTEN AND DONE that whole period missing "just" layout and art. So it was possible to bring it to life rather easily after the Frog Gods took over. I don´t think ToN is written or done (and personally doubt it ever will be if left in the hands of McBride alone).

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Wicht wrote:
The moral of which is, things can change. What seems a catastrophe now might get resolved down the road a bit.

It might be - if McBride follows Nick Logue´s footsteps in resolving the thing - by selling it off to a company that can deliver and offering refunds to those who want them. Which I doubt. But let´s see.

Also, while no excuse for the period of silence on Nick Logues part - Razor Coast was arguably WRITTEN AND DONE that whole period missing "just" layout and art. So it was possible to bring it to life rather easily after the Frog Gods took over. I don´t think ToN is written or done (and personally doubt it ever will be if left in the hands of McBride alone).

If he suddenly lets someone take over, or even help, I'll be surprised. Relieved, but surprised, and maybe even a little hurt unless the someone has a highly reputable name.

It's been my understanding that he's got enough headway that he didn't need any assistance. However, this was months ago. Wish I could say I know otherwise now, but everyone involved has unfortunately gone silent on the subject.


So it looks like I might play in a throne of night game, and I have been looking but it looks like a free player's guide was never released. So my question is about campaign traits....Were campaign traits included and are they referenced anywhere?

Grand Lodge

KenderKin wrote:
So it looks like I might play in a throne of night game, and I have been looking but it looks like a free player's guide was never released. So my question is about campaign traits....Were campaign traits included and are they referenced anywhere?

No guide was made, and while I haven't been there lately, only Way of the Wicked references were made available on the site. It'd be nice if that got put up.


KenderKin wrote:
So it looks like I might play in a throne of night game, and I have been looking but it looks like a free player's guide was never released. So my question is about campaign traits....Were campaign traits included and are they referenced anywhere?

Campaign Traits are included in Book 1 of Throne of Night. They are in the back of that book, with the character creation guide - it includes both Dwarf and Drow info.

Grand Lodge

Firstbourne wrote:
KenderKin wrote:
So it looks like I might play in a throne of night game, and I have been looking but it looks like a free player's guide was never released. So my question is about campaign traits....Were campaign traits included and are they referenced anywhere?
Campaign Traits are included in Book 1 of Throne of Night. They are in the back of that book, with the character creation guide - it includes both Dwarf and Drow info.

The only downside is sharing that with players. The advantage of the player's guide is you never have to worry about what's given out, and it's usually small enough to fit in an email.

I ended up making my own player's guide for convenience sake. It's just short of 20 mb. Was hoping it'd be smaller, but so far my email server hasn't screamed at me.


kevin_video wrote:


If he suddenly lets someone take over, or even help, I'll be surprised. Relieved, but surprised, and maybe even a little hurt unless the someone has a highly reputable name.

Well to be fair: Nick Logue took quite some time to accept that he was in over his head and turn the stuff over to FGG. So there´s still a shred of hope....probably....somewhere.

kevin_video wrote:
It's been my understanding that he's got enough headway that he didn't need any assistance.

Uh-hm. Sure. And the moon is made of green cheese. ^^. No offense.

kevin_video wrote:
However, this was months ago. Wish I could say I know otherwise now, but everyone involved has unfortunately gone silent on the subject.

BIIIIIIIG superise! lol.


kevin_video wrote:
Firstbourne wrote:
KenderKin wrote:
So it looks like I might play in a throne of night game, and I have been looking but it looks like a free player's guide was never released. So my question is about campaign traits....Were campaign traits included and are they referenced anywhere?
Campaign Traits are included in Book 1 of Throne of Night. They are in the back of that book, with the character creation guide - it includes both Dwarf and Drow info.

The only downside is sharing that with players. The advantage of the player's guide is you never have to worry about what's given out, and it's usually small enough to fit in an email.

I ended up making my own player's guide for convenience sake. It's just short of 20 mb. Was hoping it'd be smaller, but so far my email server hasn't screamed at me.

Seeing as all we have is a pdf, it's easy enough to copy-paste the info into a word doc and email or print for your players.

Plus - it lets you edit out anything you don't want in your campaign. For example, I didn't like the idea of alternate racial bonuses for dwarves, so I eliminated that section.

Grand Lodge

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I've been in contact with KS. I had talked to them last year about what was happening, and they said to contact them if the project was still behind. So I did. They're trying to contact Gary about opening communication with us. I'll be interested to see if they can pull it off. Guess we'll find out in a couple of weeks.


kevin_video wrote:
I've been in contact with KS. I had talked to them last year about what was happening, and they said to contact them if the project was still behind. So I did. They're trying to contact Gary about opening communication with us. I'll be interested to see if they can pull it off. Guess we'll find out in a couple of weeks.

Very cool.

It really is in their best interest. The more this kind of thing happens, and word gets out, the more people will shy away from KS.
They don't want a reputation as a place where people get scammed.


kevin_video wrote:
I've been in contact with KS. I had talked to them last year about what was happening, and they said to contact them if the project was still behind. So I did. They're trying to contact Gary about opening communication with us. I'll be interested to see if they can pull it off. Guess we'll find out in a couple of weeks.

I appreciate the effort!! Way to go dude!

BUT: he won´t answer their mails any more than he answers ours.

On another note........didn´t you plan to write an adventure yerself? How´s that coming along?

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Lord_Hyperion wrote:

I appreciate the effort!! Way to go dude!

BUT: he won´t answer their mails any more than he answers ours.

On another note........didn´t you plan to write an adventure yerself? How´s that coming along?

Yeah, that's about what I told them too on the good/bad satisfaction survey they sent. Told them them if he actually responded to the fire they lit that I'd change my rating.

Adventure writing progress:
I did say I was going to, and so far it's looking good. I've received feedback from the majority of the people I sent idea survey sheets to, and so far it's pretty close on what the majority wants. I'm not sure what I'm writing yet. I wish I could say that one of the ideas was experiencing a landslide, but that's just not the case at all. Gotta say I'm really glad I ended up doing this though because the one I had initially planned to do, before it was suggested I do a survey with multiple suggestions, was liked the least. And I do mean least. I was surprised because it was actually the first campaign I ran for Pathfinder and my group at the time really enjoyed it. Apparently we were all very alone in that idea. My publisher/editor is currently away until some time in July so it'll be a little while yet before we can talk shop.

However, I have written a complete adventure module in the meantime. It's another one I'm hoping to publish professionally. It's a 4th level adventure that I had to write for this previous weekend's convention tournament, with pregen NPCs. It was a major hit, and even has the seal of approval from fellow freelance author N. Jolly. For those that don't recognize the name, but receive the Paizo weekly newsletters, he's the guy who wrote all three Kineticists of Porphyra books that have been consistently on the Top 10 3pp downloads for the last 4+ months. Again, waiting on my guy to get back in July before I look to release that. Then I'll be going from there.

Grand Lodge

Down with con plague so I thought I'd do up a post.

While setting up our session to run more Way of the Wicked with my group, one of my players showed me his new copy of the Armor Master's Handbook. I have to say that I immediately liked it more than the Weapon Master's Handbook. I mean, yeah, it was mainly because of the arachnid harness, which used in conjunction with the arachnid soul vigilante archetype it now allows me to make my own personal Cho/Iron Spider PC, but it's still a good book overall.

The arachnid harness is great to add to the drow, but I'd consider swapping it out for studded leather for that extra +1 to AC. It's not like masterwork quality doesn't get rid of the -1 armor check penalty of anything. That said, the price point is ridiculous. For 200 gold less I can get slippers of spider climbing and get an actual climb speed instead of an attempt to make Climb checks at that speed. Add another 110 gold to it and you get the 3.0 Drow spider kit. Truth be told, any of those items work for this campaign. Especially if you're drow.

Being underground, and not being surrounded by trees, I have to wonder how rare paper is. Especially spell book and scroll paper. I guess you could argue that the plant life in the mushroom forest has a consistency not unlike the papyrus plant, and make the kind of paper that ancient Egyptians had, but thanks to the Armor Master Handbook, we now have spellscribed armor. That said, you need the specific feats to pull it off. Another option, depending on how rare "paper" really is, is to replace Scribe Scroll at 1st level, and give them Craft Fetish Item. At later levels maybe Inscribe Magical Tattoo could be a potential plan. Don't forget that you also need the tools, spell components, and ink to scribe everything together.
Back in 3.5, there was an alternate wizard class feature called Eidetic Spellcaster in Dragon Magazine 357. You permanently scribed to your brain instead of to a book. In exchange you lose your familiar and Scribe Scroll, however, in Pathfinder you're supposed to have an arcane bond of some kind. You could probably skip that though. It wouldn't break the game.


kevin_video wrote:


Being underground, and not being surrounded by trees, I have to wonder how rare paper is. Especially spell book and scroll paper. I guess you could argue that the plant life in the mushroom forest has a consistency not unlike the papyrus plant, and make the kind of paper that ancient Egyptians had,

Quite true. Also remember that there was "vellum" long before there was paper. Vellum being a specially treated very thin animal skin (the word stems from the latin "vitulinum" means "made from calves"). Drow should have access to animals easily, so they could use vellum.

Grand Lodge

Lord_Hyperion wrote:
kevin_video wrote:
Being underground, and not being surrounded by trees, I have to wonder how rare paper is. Especially spell book and scroll paper. I guess you could argue that the plant life in the mushroom forest has a consistency not unlike the papyrus plant, and make the kind of paper that ancient Egyptians had,
Quite true. Also remember that there was "vellum" long before there was paper. Vellum being a specially treated very thin animal skin (the word stems from the latin "vitulinum" means "made from calves"). Drow should have access to animals easily, so they could use vellum.

I actually didn't know about vellum. Or rather, I didn't know the name. I recall that besides ancient cave paintings there were skins treated like a paint canvass. Drow would likely have access to some of that, but there aren't that many animals underground. Most of the creatures listed for the underdark are mainly vermin or monstrous humanoids. I guess there's some fudging that could be done though. Afterall, there are blind "cattle" that drow farmed, so it's quite possible that all of that animal would be used during its harvest.


I recall two separate explanations one is drow wizards use paper from the surface and use candles that burn their eyes to study spells, another said they use inks visible to dark vision....

Grand Lodge

It likely means nothing other than Michael is updating his site, but his business profile site has three new art pieces, and all of them have 2016 date stamped on them.


YAY! Art! This s&*! is gonna end up as a coffee table book in the end *lol*

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
kevin_video wrote:
It likely means nothing other than Michael is updating his site, but his business profile site has three new art pieces, and all of them have 2016 date stamped on them.

Got a link perchance?

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