(Haha, I didn't even notice until now that I swapped aliases in the middle of the thread. Whoops. Skeeve Plowse is me, and I am Skeeve Plowse.)
2. Slayers does emphasize strongly the differences between a sorcerer, priest, and shamanist, and that they do NOT have all the same areas of expertise. Sylphiel struggling to cast Dragon Slave as a good, if exaggerated, example. Lina can cast sorcery and shamanist spells expertly, with some white magic, but that's because Lina is Lina F$@%ing Inverse, and even she notes there are say, white magic spells she cannot cast well and looks to Sylphiel or Amelia to cast as well. (Lina also can't cast Rah Tilt).
I admit that when I was thinking of this I was primarily thinking of Amelia, who I would have thought as a Priest if anyone was, casting the ultimate Shamanist spell, but the Slayers book seems to have her as a Shaman. I wouldn't have pegged that.
Base DC in this is 0 level spells are DC 20, 1st level are DC 25, 2nd 30, 3rd 35, etc. so your math puts it all lower by 5. But on the other hand, you are making higher level spells generally take up more slots, so it would probably balance out. And as a rule of thumb for determining slots, it's good. That was one thing I could not figure out if they had a system for in Slayers d20 or they just determined per spell "what made sense at the time"--I had trouble seeing a pattern to it.
Hah, I knew I missed something. Well, that works too; at first glance, a DC 25 fortitude save seems pretty high for a level 1 character to attempt just to cast a level 1 spell, but on further reflection it occurs to me that the point is a character should probably be failing this check on average, and needing to make a Control check to cast their highest level spells.
Well, everyone has a good Will save in terms of base saves (just clerics also have high Wis), so wouldn't most take the Will save if that choice was offered? It's not a bad idea--in some ways, it makes a lot of sense!
My intention with this two-fold; firstly, a cleric has a better Fortitude save and more hitpoints than a wizard, enabling them to throw out more spells more often; that's what I meant by narrowing the gap.
Secondly, I'm planning to keep the non-spellcaster's ability to learn a spell here or there; a fighter's probably going to want to tough out the drain rather than willpower his way through it.
If you do get to playtest this, please let me know how it turns out!
I'll do you one better than that; if/when I do run this it's going to be forum-based, so I'll float you a link to the forum. You can watch it go by in real time, so to speak.
2. Slayers does emphasize strongly the differences between a sorcerer, priest, and shamanist, and that they do NOT have all the same areas of expertise. Sylphiel struggling to cast Dragon Slave as a good, if exaggerated, example. Lina can cast sorcery and shamanist spells expertly, with some white magic, but that's because Lina is Lina F$@%ing Inverse, and even she notes there are say, white magic spells she cannot cast well and looks to Sylphiel or Amelia to cast as well. (Lina also can't cast Rah Tilt).I admit that when I was thinking of this I was primarily thinking of Amelia, who I would have thought as a Priest if anyone was, casting the ultimate Shamanist spell, but the Slayers book seems to have her as a Shaman. I wouldn't have pegged that.
Seyruunians as a whole are experts in priestly magic, so most people get training in that (the ward over the city helps reinforce that).
But both Amelia and her elder sister Gracia (Gracia ul Naga Seyruun, who is constantly "on training journeys" and goes by her middle name) found it fit to learn shamanic magic after their mother was killed (although this info in part was shared only by "word of god" but not in an actual story). According to the Slayers novels, Amelia says "Gracia taught me" the shamanic and black magic spells that she knows, she being too young to know what happened when her other was killed.
Amelia has strong white magic but ultimately becomes a stronger shaman. She'd be multiclass most definitely, and in terms of build IIRC has some spell mastery over certain spells like Rah Tilt.
Sylphiel would be the best example of a pure priest (maybe Filia too).
Base DC in this is 0 level spells are DC 20, 1st level are DC 25, 2nd 30, 3rd 35, etc. so your math puts it all lower by 5. But on the other hand, you are making higher level spells generally take up more slots, so it would probably balance out. And as a rule of thumb for determining slots, it's good. That was one thing I could not figure out if they had a system for in Slayers d20 or they just determined per spell "what made sense at the time"--I had trouble seeing a pattern to it.Hah, I knew I missed something. Well, that works too; at first glance, a DC 25 fortitude save seems pretty high for a level 1 character to attempt just to cast a level 1 spell, but on further reflection it occurs to me that the point is a character should probably be failing this check on average, and needing to make a Control check to cast their highest level spells.
Right. If you think in the Vancian d20 system, a 1st level wizard can only manage to pop off 1 or 2 1st level spells a day at most, you probably end up with a similar result for a 1st level caster in this system. And in fact they still have a chance of getting off more if either they roll well or are able to take multiple rounds casting.
My intention with this two-fold; firstly, a cleric has a better Fortitude save and more hitpoints than a wizard, enabling them to throw out more spells more often; that's what I meant by narrowing the gap.
Ah. You could also maybe limit the cleric in other ways (restrict them from casting certain spells or something).
Secondly, I'm planning to keep the non-spellcaster's ability to learn a spell here or there; a fighter's probably going to want to tough out the drain rather than willpower his way through it.
Does that mean you will also use the Insane Fantasy caster level calculation? (Int+Spellcaster Class levels, not to exceed hit dice).
That was one thing that I didn't get in original Slayers d20. They let Intelligent characters have spell slots but it wasn't clear on what their caster level was (although it's entirely possible I missed a clause somewhere). I figured this was kinder on multiclassers while still giving full casters an edge.
I'll do you one better than that; if/when I do run this it's going to be forum-based, so I'll float you a link to the forum. You can watch it go by in real time, so to speak.
Awesome!
My intention with this two-fold; firstly, a cleric has a better Fortitude save and more hitpoints than a wizard, enabling them to throw out more spells more often; that's what I meant by narrowing the gap.Ah. You could also maybe limit the cleric in other ways (restrict them from casting certain spells or something).
Secondly, I'm planning to keep the non-spellcaster's ability to learn a spell here or there; a fighter's probably going to want to tough out the drain rather than willpower his way through it.Does that mean you will also use the Insane Fantasy caster level calculation? (Int+Spellcaster Class levels, not to exceed hit dice).
That was one thing that I didn't get in original Slayers d20. They let Intelligent characters have spell slots but it wasn't clear on what their caster level was (although it's entirely possible I missed a clause somewhere). I figured this was kinder on multiclassers while still giving full casters an edge.
My full plans with regards to spell selection and caster level are to have each class retain their own spell list, and a character can choose either their class' casting stat or Intelligence to govern all their spellcasting, chosen when they gain their first level in any given casting class.
Each character will have just one caster level; caster level as derived from their highest spellcasting class, plus half the caster level of the second highest, plus their casting stat's ability modifier to the maximum of their hit dice.
When learning spells, if a spell is on one of your class lists, learn it as normal. If it's not, the casting DC goes up by +5. If you learn the wrong type of spell across the Arcane/Divine divide (for example, if a cleric teaches a bard Cure Light Wounds), it takes an extra spell slot to learn. I'll probably also borrow some of your Slayers d20 conversion spells, with credit of course, and if I'm feeling really adventurous I might try to throw Psionics in there too.
When casting spells, each class is going to have a 'Spellcasting Bonus' to all spells; +1/level for full casters, +3/4 per level for casters who max out at 6th level spells, +1/2 per level for paladin and ranger style spellcasting, and nothing for non-spellcasters. This stacks like BAB and applies as a bonus to Drain and Control checks.
Each class'll get a bonus for spells of their type (Arcane/Divine) equal to their Spellcasting Bonus for that class for Drain checks. I'd originally thought to apply that to Control checks too, but they're already getting their caster level applied to those because of the whole Concentration check thing, and I felt there was no sense in double-dipping.
Needless to say, I'm planning a pretty non-standard game of Pathfinder. And looking at all this, I'm sorry for hijacking your thread with my commentary on house rules on your house rules, but I felt you'd be interested to hear about it all the same.
I am definitely interested to hear about it because any playtesting, even if it's variant, is useful for me to hear.
I mean, not that I ever plan anything major to come of this, but I still want this to be as good as it can be, even if and perhaps all the more because it's for fun.
Filia's a priest-type but as a golden dragon she has access to certain spells and abilities that no human mage has access to (I think in Slayers they call it Divine Magic as opposed to White Magic)
Thanks, Dylos, I'll bear that in mind. I don't know when I'll have the time/energy but maybe a PBP would be a good idea.
For the last few months I've been a player in a one-on-one Seyruun campaign. As I have never seen the Slayers anime nor read the novels or manga the GM dediced to follow the story from the original series. (So basicly I've been put into the role of Lady Inverse without knowing it. And I travel with a companion who is basicly Goury)
Up until now we used the Pathfinder system without modifying it but now the GM has found your system and proposed we imported elements from it into our game.
I say b+&&%**s to that, I want to use your system fully.
There are a few questions that I have about it though.
-I love utility spells and as noted you noted in your work Insane Fantasy provides little of those. Do you think a mix between Insane Fantasy's spell list and the Pathfinder core rulebook using Proximac's spell conversion would work out?
-I play an elven Fighter1/Transmuter5 and I was actually just qualified to enter the Eldritch Knight prestige class, which is a path I would still like to pursue. I know that some prestige classes wouldn't really work but Eldritch Knight has a chance. I was thinking of converting my character to Fighter1/Elementalist5 do you forsee any complications about such a character becoming an Eldritch Knight using your system?
-How do magic items such as wands/scrolls etc work? As of now I believe it is not covered in Insane Fantasy.
For the last few months I've been a player in a one-on-one Seyruun campaign. As I have never seen the Slayers anime nor read the novels or manga the GM dediced to follow the story from the original series. (So basicly I've been put into the role of Lady Inverse without knowing it. And I travel with a companion who is basicly Goury)
I'd encourage you to give a few episodes a go. (Link is to the first Slayers TV series on Hulu. Goes directly to the dubbed version, but they also have subtitled if that's what you prefer) Just to get a feel for it. :)
Up until now we used the Pathfinder system without modifying it but now the GM has found your system and proposed we imported elements from it into our game.
I say b!$&~!#s to that, I want to use your system fully.
I'll take that as a compliment. :) Thanks.
There are a few questions that I have about it though.
-I love utility spells and as noted you noted in your work Insane Fantasy provides little of those. Do you think a mix between Insane Fantasy's spell list and the Pathfinder core rulebook using Proximac's spell conversion would work out?
For converting spells...
The Casting DC for any spell starts at 20 for a "level 0" spell and goes up by 5 from there. So if you were converting a level 3 spell, it would be casting DC 35.
The other thing you have to pay attention to is casting time and components, which in Insane Fantasy (and Slayersd20 before it) is in the first instance always standard, and in the second, nonexistent. Depending on length of casting time and costly components used, you may wish to either increase the casting DC or increase the spell slots it takes up--or both.
Finally, if you are using the spell type system (elemental, sacred, entropic), you'll have to assign that to your converted spell.
The other thing to bear in mind is the Slayers itself focuses to a large degree on very blasty magic. While it does have some utility spells, mostly lower level ones, adding lots of utility takes from its original flavor and intent. It also may affect the power balance--sometimes utility spells can in the long run be more powerful than combat spells.
THAT SAID, you are working more with core Pathfinder than IF!, which in itself is balanced to allow PCs to rely on utility spells.
So beyond the above guidelines, I'd go over your desired with your GM and bear in mind implications on the magic and the world feel. In many cases you're actually probably fine.
And this isn't utility, I also don't know if you're using IF's healing spells or Pathfinder's, which are a bit different. Other stuff to bear in mind is things like--if cure light wounds heals nonlethal damage, does the spells' inflicting nonlethal damage become inconsequential? Something to think about (it may not be a problem--I'd actually love to hear what you guys experience and come up with).
-I play an elven Fighter1/Transmuter5 and I was actually just qualified to enter the Eldritch Knight prestige class, which is a path I would still like to pursue. I know that some prestige classes wouldn't really work but Eldritch Knight has a chance. I was thinking of converting my character to Fighter1/Elementalist5 do you forsee any complications about such a character becoming an Eldritch Knight using your system?
I don't know if you guys are using IF's caster level calculation, which is Int+Spellcaster levels, not to exceed HD. If you are, this means your Eldritch Knight will very likely have a higher caster level than a Pathfinder EK. This is not necessarily a bad thing! But something to bear in mind for balance purposes. On the upside, it allows you to indulge in an extra fighter level or two without losing CL.
The only other thing I can think of off the top of my head is you will have to consider how the EK's Spell Critical will work with IF spellcasting rules. If you can cast as a swift action, there is no way you will be able to do the various tricks you can use to raise your spell drain and control checks (so you may feel limited as to the spells you can cast). You'll also have to consider the consequences if you DO fail your spell drain and control checks---do you still finish hitting with your weapon and deal normal damage before the spellcasting fails and you take whatever consequences there might be?
Not insurmountable challenges by any means.
If you're using spell slots, you will also need to figure out how many spell slots an EK gets per level. I'd probably use the mage advancement as a guideline but maybe not give the EK the highest progression.
Also if you're using spell types, you'll need to choose the EK's area of specialization--presumably entropic magic (but could also be elemental).
-How do magic items such as wands/scrolls etc work? As of now I believe it is not covered in Insane Fantasy.
I hadn't gotten to that yet, no. Sorry. :) And I'm not sure if Slayers uses wands and scrolls, so there's that. But otherwise, activating magic items like wands and scrolls shouldn't change much. If you're using a known spell list, then they activate as normal. If you're using spell types, then I'd say you could activate any wand or scroll from your area of specialization.
For figuring out spell level-based effects, just do the conversion I noted above backwards. (So if it's a 9th level scroll, then its casting DC is something like 65). You can use that also to determine pricing.
If you can, you might also see if you or your GM can grab a copy of Slayers d20--the pdf is still floating around some places at least. Its rules for item creation would also be helpful (although I remember the pricing seemed a little off).
Hope that helps. Good luck!
I was surprised not to a see a dragon slave spell.
If you're talking about the Insane Fantasy spell list I made, all the spell names were changed to avoid crossing over into IP territory. Remember, I converted the mechanics of Slayers d20 (which was OGL); I did not keep the fluff (because I don't own it).
The name of the "dragon slave" spell in the IF spell list is REALLY obvious though, shouldn't be hard to find. :)
It's under "Dragon Slayer." :)
Because I'm lazy and never get around to things when I say I do:
I'm only JUST starting up my own game based on the variation on these rules. If you want to poke around and take a look, please feel free!
http://www.myth-weavers.com/game.php?g=14559
Even though we haven't technically started playing yet, one change I've had to make is to rename 'spell slots' to 'spell knowledge points', because it was confusing everyone. So, that is something to keep in mind.
I just saw this today. Very cool, ProximaC! I haven't read everything, but what I've seen so far looks like a fun game.
I noticed the discussion about the "knowledge points" and I agree that or another, clearer terminology would be suitable. I remember reviewing the Slayersd20 rules and wondering if it would be confusing and now, I see it is.
Are you not using the extended spellcasting rule? I.e., you can spend several rounds to cast a spell, getting a +5 per round. So if you're casting that legendary DC 75 spell, you can take a few rounds to lessen your chances of accidentally blowing up the entire universe. I see you have the allowance to spend a full round action, but I didn't see anyone discussing the option to take longer to cast. It is supposed to be hard to cast a spell--since you can cast any spell you know as often as you want, otherwise--but that is one guaranteed way of getting success. (You just need your friends to protect you while you finish casting, but that is very much part of the genre.)
Ugh, these forums really need email notifications, lemme tell you.
I'll be quite honest; I hadn't noticed the extended spellcasting rule in either the original cut or your rejigger (I tend to skim a lot). I'd thrown in something similar to that, but more in line with longer casting times more often found in Pathfinder spells. I ended up going with full round -> one minute -> 10 minutes -> 1 hour. We'll see if more than that is necessary.
We haven't had much chance to actually test the spellcasting in combat (PbP is a harsh, slow mistress), so maybe I'll work that back in somehow. I threw in a lot of ways to get additional bonus, so maybe it won't be necessary. You're right, though, it is very thematic.
Hmm, sounds interesting. Slayers d20 was quite fun, I'm interested how it would work out like that.
BTW, I may be alone in this but I think having PrCs for the specialized types works well enough - as long as being a jack or jill of all trades is still quite useful :) .
I've produced a modified version of the system as an experiment. Any feedback would, of course, be interesting to hear.
First of, thank you
This was greatly needed.
I'll read all and see how can i contribute.
Richard at a glance, I like your stuff. If I get back to my own project, do you mind if I steal your idea of the drain feats?
Richard at a glance, I like your stuff. If I get back to my own project, do you mind if I steal your idea of the drain feats?
Nope, go right ahead.
I believe i gan grant few insight on the statting of M-zoku (call I call them so?) and S-zoku. I elaborate a system in which a lone M from the Blue universe reached a Faerun like mortal plane ...
There it literally feeded on tanar'ri and baatezu soup, growing daily into becoming a living, skyscraper-size portal for his masters, while digging his way to the nine hells. The players where shocked to see the legion of hell retreating from this thing (which had the form of a d20 dice) ROLLING on them at near sound speed. it was a glorious onslaught.
I got funny rules about the advancement of such beings, from mindless, carrion infesting spirits to high evolved, human-like ones. If you are interested, i can write them up for you.
Keep in mind, thought, that i'italian and my english is not the best.
Blue Universe? If you're talking about the slayers Blue World, I don't think anything's ever officially been done with that (Slayers is in the red world, and dark star is from/lost universe presumably takes place in the black world)... What did you have going on?
Blue Universe? If you're talking about the slayers Blue World, I don't think anything's ever officially been done with that (Slayers is in the red world, and dark star is from/lost universe presumably takes place in the black world)... What did you have going on?
It was a strange and complex story
It all started with strange beings that one day happeared. At first, they went around looking for demon worshippers, devils, dark gods servants and such, killing or kidnapping them. These creatures where shaped as d4 dices. My playes laugh a lot about it, but then stopped when on of these went gurren lagann against a glabrezu, drilling through him like butter and, after that, draining him like if was cottoncandy ...
So, at first it was a good thing: less demons around, less evil mages.But after a while things started to go wild. More dices everywhere (d4, d6, d8), and they started kidnapping any wizard who could summon things.
Gods did not answer about the nature of such beings, so a quest was started to discover what the hell they where since, as polygons, they did not speak any language and throught telepaty they communicate orders throught images. At the same time, thought, strange creature start emerge in places where the dices attacked: foul beings similar to demonic golems, yet different, and normal people transformed into shard like beings - it was called the curse of shards
it was when a dragon infected and made mad by this curse died while fighting against the pcs that something changed: a being emerged from the corpse, that thing became more clear. this new enemy was able to communicate and explained many things ... GONNA SAY MORE AFTER ms Quaker answer me
So, basically i had to create rules how the M-beings can exist and fight in a d&d setting ... and man, they where monstrous!
Trying to be true to the source material, i illustred how this beings reprocude, evolve, manifest, fight, use spells and such. what where their strenght and weaknesses. Also, i had a lot to work on their culture and how such culture affects them in fights since, as everybody knows, they fight on pair with their adversaries ...
Just for an example, when fighting demons (or any beings able to teleport at will) they use to ram at them at sound speed (+20d6 kynetic damages ad trample) since they could, tecnically, evade them ...
For those reasons, psions where at the same time the best and the worst against them ... poor psions.
So just found this post and really looking forward to reading through all the work you have done, one of my friends recently asked me to run a slayers esc campaign our thoughts were to make mid level characters probably 8 or 10th keep them at that level through out the game and then go monty haul with magic items allowing them to grow stronger through gear, may take some ideas up from E6.
Now that I have found your Insane fantasy system though I may have even more options than I had first anticipated thank you.
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You can use the basic converting guide with the BESM d20, using the Concentration ability with the casting with Pathfinder makes sense.
To Run an Adventure Path, take the highest end level of the path and start with it instead at the book 1 of 6, Example Mummy Mask would start all the PC's at level 17, Apply the level adjustments from the d20 Slayers book as normal for the book itself, But change Feat Gain and Skills to pathfinder and use the classes only found in the Slayers d20 book. That way you get the comical power for the start of the game, but with no level gain the PC's will slowly like the anime find and fight foes that will start to rival and be able to go toe to toe with the them. Slayers doesn't really concerns itself with money and item gain so it is best to make sure only key magical items for the adventure paths are still there while throwing random gold at the PC's to afford 'food and small things." But start with the starting gold of their level in Pathfinder and let them buy magical items (Although ideally half of that money must be spent on a single item)
:-) Also alter the end boss of the adventure path based on the heroes to fit with making them stand out as tough take them on end boss.
to finish the Example from above, say someone wanted to play a Chimera like Zelgadis from the series in the Mummy mask, He himself is a +4 Level adjustment, the adventure would get PC's up to level 17 so instead of being level 17, he'd be level 13 starting off.
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I'm going to thread necromancy this. I am interested in looking at the documents, and I have downloaded them. I think I wanted to do something similar in the past, so I'd love to contribute my ideas.
Did you ever get the D20 BESM Magic book? I have it sitting on my shelf because I wanted to see the conventional D&D spells converted to the Slayers magic system (except they used a spell point thing, but meh). I never did get to sit and look through it, and I wondered if you had any thoughts on that.
Wow, glad I saw this. The draft rules I worked on are linked in this post in this thread. (If the links don't work, let me know, GoogleDrive might have done something funny with them.)
I never did much with them because I never received much concrete feedback on what to do next, so they are still largely unchanged, and I eventually moved on to other things. I will also disclaim that these were written several years ago now, prior to several Pathfinder rulebooks coming out, and would probably be in need of serious updating on several levels.
If you have any thoughts or suggestions, I am still however happy to consider them.
To respond to a couple posts above Richard's, however very belatedly--my project was to convert specifically the rules in an existing rulebook called "Slayers d20," not work at all with the "BESM d20" rules (Anime d20 and Slayers d20 are not necessarily compatible even though they were produced by the same company, outside of both being OGL-based rulebooks; mainly because BESM/Anime d20 was a point buy system and Slayers d20 was not).