Sailing the Starlit Sea – Progress?


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Ok, I was excited on the concept of this one last year when I heard about it. But now I feel like I need more. The kickstarter completely cleared its minimum by $900, and I remember them mentioning that it wouldn’t be till around now that they’d be able to actually get to it. And that’s where the info stops.

So for the guys at Clockwork Gnome or anyone else in the know… What’s the word? How’s the project actually coming? Do we have a release date actually planned yet? Come one, give us something to actually work with here.


There was an update on their kickstarter update page on August 14th (if you're a backer of the project, you should be able to view it) stating that the estimated release date for August wasn't going to be met, but it did fill provide at least six points of progress and/or information concerning where they're at. You should also be able to access the bulletin board for more timely content. If not, hopefully you can request the information through the project manager or maybe someone will flare up the gnome beacon and point it toward the sky to get their attention. :)

Liberty's Edge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2012

Allen Taliesin just posted an update on the Clockwork Gnome site.

Clockwork Gnome Publishing

taig wrote:

Allen Taliesin just posted an update on the Clockwork Gnome site.

Thanks taig. I was just coming here to post the link.

Backers were informed a couple of weeks ago, but the blog had yet to be updated with the news.

I apologize for that.


Thanks for the info, guys. I wasn't one of the backers, so didn't have access to things. It's really appreciated. =]

Shadow Lodge

I missed the kickstarter, but I'm definitely interested in some Pathfinder among the stars when it hits the virtual shelves.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

So.... The Clockwork Gnome website hasn't been updated since August. Could we get a status update on this, please?


Hmmm, ok... as a Kickstarter backer, I've been getting regular email updates from Clockwork Gnome. As of December 22nd, the 5th and final chunk of the playtest docs are out for final review/feedback/testing to the backers. The deadline for backers to submit input is January 12th.

Allen has continually communicated with the backers & playtesters with status updates and that he has been very regretful about the missed deadline -- brought about by a number of unforeseen setbacks and by new additions to the initial project (such as the new biomechanical rules for items, creatures, and ships). Starlit Seas still seems firmly on course for release (YAY!).

I'll let him know about your concern, Nodnarb, and I'm sure he'll pop in to better explain it and update everyone out-of-the-loop.

Publisher, Clockwork Gnome Publishing

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The blog at the site has not been updated in a while, but our site has seen some recent updates. There are a few more coming, including a blog post, but these are updates on future books that are currently being written by other authors. All of my attention is still firmly placed on Sailing the Starlit Sea. I am just shepherding these non-StSS manuscripts as needed. There have also been some updates about Clockwork Gnome Publishing at our Facebook page.

Unfortunately, none of those Facebook updates have concerned Sailing the Starlit Sea. Backers have received regular updates and are currently getting weekly reports on progress. All of our substantial updates concerning the project have been focused towards the backers. Ambrosia covered the bases fairly well on where we are at in the process. I can say that some of the material that was written before the Kickstarter has seen some serious revisions.

I am reluctant to give a firm release date, for obvious reasons. The rules are going into editing after January 12th. I have some of the art, but not all of it. And there are some other backer specific details I will be working out in the coming week. I am really not pleased that it will soon be a year since the Kickstarter began and the book has yet to be released. The responsibility lies on my shoulders, as I am the only "full-time" employee of Clockwork Gnome Publishing. But I can also guarantee that work continues.

I should also note that if backers want to share their impressions and thoughts on the playtest, they can certainly do so. In addition, I am around the Paizo forums, so I am happy to answer what questions I can.

I am sorry this is taking so long. It is coming. And once we wrap up the playtest, I will be keen on sharing more specific details on what the book will contain.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Thanks you for the quick and detailed update. That's why I love these forums.

Publisher, Clockwork Gnome Publishing

Nodnarb wrote:
Thanks you for the quick and detailed update. That's why I love these forums.

You are very welcome. That is why I love these forums as well. It is great method of communication.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I've been getting updates myself, not to mention some other considerations. But I shan't say much more on that. But suffice to say the book looks like it should be rather nice when all is said and done.

Dark Archive

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I can certainly understand concern if you're not privy to the info us backers are, but as a backer I'm not concerned over the rate of progress on the book. Not pleased either, mind you, but we know there is definite progress being made. Better late than never.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kvantum wrote:
I can certainly understand concern if you're not privy to the info us backers are, but as a backer I'm not concerned over the rate of progress on the book. Not pleased either, mind you, but we know there is definite progress being made. Better late than never.

I share your dismay and attitude for the most part. I know what I have contributed and await the final product with great anticipation. I also have enjoyed what I have seen so far.

Publisher, Clockwork Gnome Publishing

Kodyax wrote:
Kvantum wrote:
I can certainly understand concern if you're not privy to the info us backers are, but as a backer I'm not concerned over the rate of progress on the book. Not pleased either, mind you, but we know there is definite progress being made. Better late than never.
I share your dismay and attitude for the most part. I know what I have contributed and await the final product with great anticipation. I also have enjoyed what I have seen so far.

I share your dismay as well and I completely understand. I am happy to hear there is anticipation for the book, as I am excited about getting it "out into the wild".

I am very happy with how the book is going to look and what it will contain, but I am frustrated I could not keep this on schedule the way it deserved.


I am not a backer(mainly because I really, really missed the window), but I'm allllllllllllllllllllllllllllll for picking this up once it's available.


Hey all, glad to see this thread of mine is still going and informing. Thanks to all for the new flows of updates and information. From teh sounds of things, we should be seeing a finished book very soon. Like may, I am a non-backer, but looking very forward to this project, having been a fan of the Spelljammer books for a long time.

Grand Lodge

This can't happen fast enough. I'm planning on adapting Skull and Shackles to this so I'm waiting with great anticipation but greater patience.

SM


Since I have gotten no updates lately. I just have one question, will this book be done and ready for GenCon?

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Brandon Verkennes wrote:
Since I have gotten no updates lately. I just have one question, will this book be done and ready for GenCon?

From the July KS update:

Kickstarter wrote:
This August, StSS will be a year late. Which is problematic. But it also begs the question, when will the book be released? I am very reluctant to set a concrete date because I don't want to blow yet another one. We are in the home stretch. But we still have some months of editing, layout, art turnovers, and printing before it reaches you.


archmagi1 wrote:
Brandon Verkennes wrote:
Since I have gotten no updates lately. I just have one question, will this book be done and ready for GenCon?

From the July KS update:

Kickstarter wrote:
This August, StSS will be a year late. Which is problematic. But it also begs the question, when will the book be released? I am very reluctant to set a concrete date because I don't want to blow yet another one. We are in the home stretch. But we still have some months of editing, layout, art turnovers, and printing before it reaches you.

Taking that as a "No".


I'm still just hopeful that the thing will come out, but this IS the first news of any kind I've heard in 6 months. Any word from the Clockwork Gnome people? I remember some of them sounding off before.

Liberty's Edge

Quote:
This August, StSS will be a year late. Which is problematic. But it also begs the question, when will the book be released? I am very reluctant to set a concrete date because I don't want to blow yet another one. We are in the home stretch. But we still have some months of editing, layout, art turnovers, and printing before it reaches you.

And things like this are why I'm always asking publishers who come here and want us to give them money for their credentials, if they've done anything for the game before, etc. Which don't get me wrong, I'm not picking on this one in specific, I know of at least 2 other Pathfinder 3rd party crowd sourcing projects that are a year behind their dates as well.

Be careful who you invest your money with.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Thankfully, I haven't had a Kickstarter fail to deliver yet.

Be horribly late in fulfilling their goals, yes. Fail to deliver, no.

Liberty's Edge

TriOmegaZero wrote:

Thankfully, I haven't had a Kickstarter fail to deliver yet.

Be horribly late in fulfilling their goals, yes. Fail to deliver, no.

I guess that really depends on the definition of failure.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

I just look at it like I'm a venture capitalist whose return on investment *may* be physical (or digital) goods rather than any stake in the company. Of the 8 projects I have backed since Feb 2012, one has delivered as promised (PFO Tech Demo), three are on schedule (Temple of Jing, PFO "Give Us Money" Kickstarter / aka Emerald Spire, Psionic Minis), two are way behind schedule from KS success (Realmworks, Ultimate Psionics), one is year (maybe plural) from being done (Tides of Numenera), and one is a year late, with no date in sight (this).

I guess I just try to keep my expectations low, as with most KS projects, if they wildly succeed (Realmworks, Ult Psi, etc) there's no way they can cram that extra work into the original timetable. Unless you're a Paizo partner / sister company (Goblinworks, I'm looking at you).

Publisher, Clockwork Gnome Publishing

I want to add a few things.

We are still around and CGP has continued to release products. There are also two books in editing, one Campaign Cogs in production, and a short, family oriented adventure path in the writing/playtest stages. The AP, called The Trail of the Apprentice, has been demoed at a few cons already and we are happy with the feedback on that.

We had released books before the KS for StSS, working with writers that are familiar/are becoming familiar with Pathfinder fans. But this project has been unduly plagued with a mixture of bad luck and crappy planning on my part. But bad luck aside, it all comes down to a failure to manage a schedule of this scale. So, it is very accurate to say I was not properly prepared. Which I will always apologize for. There simply is no excuse.

I cannot imagine a world where I would ever fund a project via KS again. We should have had a lot more of the text done and did a much better job keeping the scope of the project in line with its original goals. I am entirely to blame for that. But funds for future projects of this scale will not come from KS or a pre-order scheme of any kind.

Currently, most KS updates I post for StSS are public. The only ones that are closed are those relating directly to backer rewards or those that were posted early in the process. We have not kept a weekly update schedule, mostly because the reports wouldn't add any significant details. But we do update the KS when there is news. In fact, there will be an update at the end of this week.

Will StSS ever release? Yes. If I thought there was a chance the book would come out, I would start processing refunds now. This is definitely not my money to keep. Do I consider this a success? Not by any metric I would ever use. I cannot pretend that CGP releasing this book over a year late is a success.

Finally, CGP will be adding some extra hands to help shepherd projects to completion. Up to this point I was managing all of our future releases, but an increased workload outside of CGP and the fact StSS is my priority means extra help is needed to insure things keep moving forward.

We have seen some success with our books, which is a state of affairs I find humbling and exciting. And we have some books in the early planning stages that have not been announced yet. So passing these on to other project mangers means I can focus on meeting the demand for StSS and they can meet the demand for future releases.


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There have been quite a few books that have delivered on time though. I know it's not Pathfinder but Ogre Designer's Edition & Shadowrun Returns delivered on time. The Legends of Sinbad RPG seems to be on it's way and Razor Coast is just about done (like +2 months but they are close). Lets not give up on KS funded products. We may need to be more discerning about what we are funding however. Look at the company, look at their track record.

Personally, I always wait for someone like ShadowcatX to ask, "What else have you done" before I back something I find in a thread here.
That is AWESOME that he does that so frequently, and can really be a great opportunity for the developer to speak about their past experience. Sometimes new developers can surprise you. Sometimes they can fall really flat. As a developer, it's a good idea to give some people a sample of what you plan to release (even if it's only a dev document, concept art, etc).

That being said, a KS is a pretty hard thing to launch and the associated product is no small feat. It not only has to be a solid project, but it has to live up to the expectations of the backers. The bigger the project, the harder that is. I really wish the best of luck to Clockwork, sounds like they hit some hardwater but are conquering it. I know the product they produce will be top notch and I can't wait to see it hit the market :-)

Not to threadjack, but we launched our Kickstarter a little different. We got like 3 months into the development cycle prior to launching the KS. We estimated we could be done by July safely. We listed a "Oct" deadline for ourselves so if things went bad, we could still recover. As the deadline grew closer we were able to say "Ok, we can do July 23rd". We released the book on time and now we are working on some extra kickstarter rewards and we can really polish them.

There is this CEO over at Zappos named Tony Hsieh (fantastic guy, read up on him). Zappos, for those who don't know, sells shoes via an online store. They use to boast 1 day shipping on all orders. People kept calling in complaining when they were a LITTLE late even. He stopped advertising it and... people stopped calling to complain. They called in saying, "Oh man! We got the shoes SO fast!". Always WAY overestimate your delivery date (we tend to do farthest release date +25%).

The biggest flaw a developer can do is not communicate and it seems like Clockwork is keeping their backers up to date. There are KS I have backed that went over 100 days without an update. We told ourselves that we would never have more than like 1 week between updates. Even if it's a small thing like, "We're alive, we're just editing like crazy", it helps people know that you haven't forgotten them. Making it public never hurts :-)

Anyway, I'll stop jacking this thread now. Good luck Allen!

Liberty's Edge

Scott_UAT wrote:
There have been quite a few books that have delivered on time though. I know it's not Pathfinder but Ogre Designer's Edition & Shadowrun Returns delivered on time. The Legends of Sinbad RPG seems to be on it's way and Razor Coast is just about done (like +2 months but they are close). Lets not give up on KS funded products. We may need to be more discerning about what we are funding however. Look at the company, look at their track record.

You've already lost me. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Shadowrun Returns a video game? Shadowrun 5 is the new version of Shadowrun and was done first party, not third party and was not done by kickstarter. (Not to say that first party is better than third party, but it is worth a note.) And isn't Razor Coast already out? (And been out for a couple months?)

That said, I do agree with your point here. Get to know who you're getting in bed with before you say "I do."

Quote:

Personally, I always wait for someone like ShadowcatX to ask, "What else have you done" before I back something I find in a thread here.

That is AWESOME that he does that so frequently, and can really be a great opportunity for the developer to speak about their past experience. Sometimes new developers can surprise you. Sometimes they can fall really flat. As a developer, it's a good idea to give some people a sample of what you plan to release (even if it's only a dev document, concept art, etc).

Thank you. :) I've noticed a lot of people get real defensive when I ask, but really, if they're confident in their abilities and if they've done work, it should be an opportunity for them to promote themselves, not a reason to become defensive. (And that goes to people who are tangentially part of the KS, such as through a stretch goal.)

Now part of that is probably my delivery, and that's fair enough. It is hard to come into a thread online and question someone without it sounding like an interrogation. ButI also think part of it is just our culture. People (often times) don't know how to properly self promote, and when a company or project is small enough that it is effectively just a couple of people, that is what they sometimes need to do. But they're hesitant because they're worried that they'll come off as braggadocios or arrogant. Anyways, I'm rambling and I'll get off my soap box now. . .

/backyard psychiatry.


Ahh I only included Shadowrun Returns because it was so well handled and delivered on time. I wasn't going for only Pathfinder product or even just RPGs.

But many thanks for breaking the ice so often.

Liberty's Edge

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Allen Taliesin wrote:
We had released books before the KS for StSS, working with writers that are familiar/are becoming familiar with Pathfinder fans. But this project has been unduly plagued with a mixture of bad luck and crappy planning on my part. But bad luck aside, it all comes down to a failure to manage a schedule of this scale. So, it is very accurate to say I was not properly prepared. Which I will always apologize for. There simply is no excuse.

Stuff happens. But take every bad thing that happened during this project and toss in inexperienced writers who are totally unfamiliar with Pathfinder or even RPGs in general. That's why I always ask who they are, what they've done, etc.

Quote:
I cannot imagine a world where I would ever fund a project via KS again. We should have had a lot more of the text done and did a much better job keeping the scope of the project in line with its original goals. I am entirely to blame for that. But funds for future projects of this scale will not come from KS or a pre-order scheme of any kind.

That is your choice, of course, but I think this is the wrong attitude to have. I understand it is discouraging to be in the weeds, and the last thing you want to do is think about another kickstarter, but dude (can I call you dude?), you've learned. You know what you should've done differently, you see how badly things can go. You're experienced now. And that means a lot.

I would rather see you (and other companies who have had difficulties with their kickstarters) approach kickstarter with a more learned eye. Do it for smaller projects with more realistic schedules, do it with stretch goals that don't slow down the progress of the main goal. Do it when the project is much closer to completion. But don't refuse to do it.

And the reason I say this is that people are still going to contribute money to kickstarters rather or not you (as in people who've had difficulties with kickstarters, not Allen in particular) use them. If you (same you again, gods I hate the english language sometimes) give up on it after it not working out once, then the gaming community is robbed of the benefit of your experience. We're only left with a bunch of companies who don't have track records, and this cycle continues.

Liberty's Edge

Scott_UAT wrote:

Ahh I only included Shadowrun Returns because it was so well handled and delivered on time. I wasn't going for only Pathfinder product or even just RPGs.

But many thanks for breaking the ice so often.

Ok. I just got confused why it was brought up. You know, the sad thing is, despite being a huge shadowrun fan, I'm just not into video games, and so I had no clue about it until just a week or so ago when I had to try and figure out if it was the new name for Shadowrun 5. . .

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

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To date I have backed 89 KS Projects since Novemeber 2011.
Of those 89:
4 did not reach their funding goal
1 was cancelled a year after the KS finished (Doom that Came to Atlantic City, only just last week). Money is being offered back, but it could be years if ever I see that money again, although another company has since picked up the game and will be fulfilling pledges out of their own pockets.
1 I had to default on payment to because of a stupid emergency car repair, and so ended up becoming a non-backer (Numenera, and trust me I was not happy about it). :'(
I am still waiting on 1 project from December 2011 (Quantum, but regular updates are happening and it is getting there)
I am waiting on 2 from February 2012 (this one, and one that has been completed and in the hands of US backers for a very long time now, Tephra; he ran out of money to ship international pledges and has been doing it one at a time as his books sell)
I am waiting on 3 from April 2012. One is shipping very soon (Shadow Days), one is still being written but is being worked on (Metamorphosis Alpha) and the other one I have the .pdf for but they ran out of money to print books (Cerulean Seas)
I'm waiting on 4 from May 2012 One is being worked on and I've seen ready copies of the .pdf (Pure Steam), 2 I have no idea on a release date but they are still being worked on, and the fourth is shipping very soon (Colossal Caves).
I'm waiting on 4 from June 2012 2 of which I have .pdfs of and am awaiting the books to be printed then shipped, one is a web series and is in post production now and the last is in the process of being shipped (plus The Doom that Came to Atlantic City was from this month as well).
And I have 2 from July 2012 that I'm waiting on One is at the printers now and the other is still being worked on.

So I have 16 projects that I backed over a year ago that I still don't have products for yet. Some are nearing completion, while others still have a way to go. Am I upset that some are taking longer than expected? A little. Do I care, as long as I gt my product in the end? No.
Basically, Kickstarter is an investment in a company. In return for your investment, said Company is offering you a copy of the product upon its release. Now I like a return on an investment just like you, but I am realistic that not every investment goes how you want it to; stocks go up and down all the time, the housing market crashes and prices drop, etc... I'm not happy when that happens, but as long as when I need it to the return is there then I'm good with that. So if it takes a little longer for that to happen then so be it. I'm not stupid and realise that some people are experienced and some people are new to the KS game. People new to the game tend to have an idea that's not done yet and have unrealistic ideas about things like printing schedules and the like. I don't begrudge them their inexperience as long as I get my product. The ones that already have everything ready to go and are only waiting on printing, or the ones who have done many KS's before and so know about these problems and can factor them into their projected releases dates are the ones that give a lot of people their unrealistic expectations about how long it takes for them to receive their products.
Honestly, from 84 products I have coming to me, I've lost one (and even that might not be a loss after all). Those are pretty good odds, and I just pick projects that appeal to me, not spending time doing in depth research about the creator's ability to have bowel movements and how this affects the projects completion date.

* All Months I give are the month the KS ended, not the expected release date. So some of those may appear to be longer than they actually are (take StSS for example: it's projected completion was August 2012, but it is one of the February 2012 ones since my spreadsheet only tallies when I backed them, not when hey're due to me).


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What's that? Like an 82% chance they will be successful? That's not terrible.
(Also, very good post!)


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For what it's worth, here's my experience with Kickstarter/Patronage:

Open Design/Kobold Press: Almost always on time. If there are delays, the people are open about it and honestly, those delays I've experienced were ok and due to stretch-goals etc. With one exception: The Freeport-module. The Designer had to cancel it and I'm still waiting for that one. With their track record (and after managing to get Red Eye of Azathoth out against all odds) I'm confident I'll see it.

List: Tales of Zobeck, Halls of the Mountain King, Northlands, Streets of Zobeck, Red Eye of Azathoth, Tales of the Old Margreve, Sunken Empires/From Shore to Sea, Journeys to the West, Midgard CS, Dark Roads and Golden Hells, Midgard Tales. I'd back KP products again. Only reason I didn't back Deep Magic was that I was broke at that moment.

Rite Publishing: Grew very fast, which resulted in some unforeseen changes in schedule etc. Coliseum Morpheuon, Heroes of the Jade Oath, Rituals of Choice I - III, Breaking of Forstor Nagar, Kaidan Trilogy.

Just got done with Demolished Ones for FATE; Questhaven, Rituals of Choice IV, Kaidan and Martial Arts Handbook are pending. Steve is very open communications-wise and I never felt left in the blue. If there are delays, he says so in a straight-forward manner and the final products tend to over-deliver - so again, yes, I'd back that.

Zombie Sky Press: It came from the Stars was painfully late, but communications/forums were there. Have to wait until I have read it (probably this week) to determine whether it was worth the wait.

Gaming Paper: Delivered Citadel of Pain and Fractured Phylactery on time. Would back them.

Little Red Goblin Games: Delivered Necropunk before its due release date. Would back them.

Fire Mountain Games: Depending on how ToN is delivered. Quality is great in WotW, but communications could be better.

Geek Industrial Complex: Constant updates, book delivered on time - quite a surprise seeing how they have never done such a thing before! Would back them again.

LPJr Design: Backed Origin of Man and Obsidian Apocalypse. They have vastly improved since getting a good editor. Communications on Origin wasn't that good and I'm still waiting for the print copy; Obsidian Apocalypse seems to have learned - much better communication and two thumbs up for improving! Looking forward to seeing my copy of OA - recommendation depends on the quality I see there.

SGG: Backed Dungeonaday for the PFRPG-conversion. I'm glad Owen got Christina on board so he can focus more on that one and other time-consuming endeavors.

TPK Games: Backed the Bleeding Hollow. They are late, but backers got a free pdf and the bonus module has blown up to more than 200 pages - more than willing to wait on that.

Frog God Games: The gold standard regarding punctuality and fulfillment: Rappan Athuk, Razor Coast - on time, perfect communication. Looking forward to the prints. Would back them again without hesitation.

CGP: The delay is painful at this point, but still bearable.

Alluria Publishing: Waiting on my copy of Cerulean Seas CS, but oh boy have the pdfs since then been a superb compensation. Plus: This one was to get Alluria running again. Excusable.

Fat Goblin Games: Backed Steampunk Musha - the guys have been thrown curveballs time and again and still, updates trickle in once in a while. I'm looking forward to the books and am patiently awaiting their completion - by the way, they have a charity bundle on a site I can't mention without breaching etiquette to help versus said hardships. Check it out!

Adventureaweek.com: Still on time for Rise of the Drow, have submitted my contribution. Since I was a stretchgoal on that one, can't comment on it.

Misfit Studios: Bite Me! Again, contributed. What I've seen on the forums, I do like.

En Publishing: Great communications, great deal - had the 4th ed Zeitgeist #6-link in my inbox today, looks like they'll deliver. WotBS for PFRPG will be epic.

And then there is Pure Steam: While there are communications, they have room to improve in that regard and for a couple of weeks, I feared it had turned into vaporware. Updates have recently become more frequent and I'm anticipating the release of that one.

And +1 for ShadowcatX asking guys who never have shown up for their credentials - then I don't have to do it. ;)

And yes, apart from industry (Pathfinder) veterans, I expect credentials or a sample that convinces me of the quality to expect. That's the reason I passed on multiple KS (and money, admittedly) - when sample crunch sucks, violates the design-philosophy or is suspiciously absent, I'm loathe to invest money. The same goes if a KS is not specific enough regarding the design-goals/philosophy of what to expect.

So yeah, I don't (yet) feel burned by KS in spite of the preorder of Razor Coast with SA back in the day - over all, my experience with 3pps has been a very positive one - for whatever that's worth.


Endzeitgeist wrote:

For what it's worth, here's my experience with Kickstarter/Patronage:

Open Design/Kobold Press: Almost always on time. If there are delays, the people are open about it and honestly, those delays I've experienced were ok and due to stretch-goals etc. With one exception: The Freeport-module. The Designer had to cancel it and I'm still waiting for that one. With their track record (and after managing to get Red Eye of Azathoth out against all odds) I'm confident I'll see it.

List: Tales of Zobeck, Halls of the Mountain King, Northlands, Streets of Zobeck, Red Eye of Azathoth, Tales of the Old Margreve, Sunken Empires/From Shore to Sea, Journeys to the West, Midgard CS, Dark Roads and Golden Hells, Midgard Tales. I'd back KP products again. Only reason I didn't back Deep Magic was that I was broke at that moment.

(Above emphasis mine) Dark Deeds in Freeport is in editing, IIRC, so then it goes into layout hell, and layout's being preoccupied with Deep Magic...well, who knows how that'll go (probably the layout artist). I will see what I can discern from the PtB.

To clarify, I don't believe the author wanted to step away from Dark Deeds. He actually became ill and unable to work on it. I tracked this down with family members I've worked with previously on projects, so confidence is high.

Side Note/Threadjack: I've actually worked on/continue to work on 11 of the projects listed in your post, between Kobold Press and Rite Publishing. You've left out the closed projects prior to Shore to Sea/Sunken Empires-- the 4E conversion of Halls, Courts of the Shadow Fey, Six Arabian Nights, Empire of the Ghouls, Wrath of the River King, Blood of the Gorgon, Castle Shadowcrag, as well as the publicly available Lost City, Defenders of Midgard, and (I believe) the 4E Midgard Bestiary.

I also think Rite Publishing's 101 series was initially a patron series, because I worked with patrons on 101 Boons. I know there are several others out there for Rite, too-- Lords of Gossamer and Shadow, for instance.

Proving you can deliver is a big part of it. Sometimes things get caught up, unintentionally, but if previous work shows it can get done, then I tend to trust the folks at the helm. I've backed 105 projects.

9 failed to meet funding.
3 admitted failure and refunded my money or said it's never happening.
3 that are in imminent failure, or who have gone radio silent. (One of them run by a guy who still keeps an active blog and internet presence, and even had the stones to fire up a second project he could then ignore but no one's called him on it, so that's interesting.)
52 have delivered and I consider complete.
The other 38 are in various stages of delivery, and I've found the best way to look at them is to worry about it about once a month or so, with a ping, and when we go two months of radio silence, then that's trouble and we start getting more frequent.

The trick is to look at what people are saying they'll deliver, what they've previously delivered, and how amp'd I am for the idea. Then you have to figure it's money lost until it shows up, but hedge your bets on it showing up based on past performance. Joshua AC Neuman can pretty much show me the project and I'll be on it for the PDF, because I know he'll keep in touch and make it happen. His latest his snags, but it was more ambitious. That's where they go south, more often than not-- they get too ambitious and they don't have the experience to handle the ambition.

-Ben.


I'm aware of all the projects you worked on (and am currently writing a review for one overdue glorious piece - you may guess which one I mean...) and deliberately only listed all projects I personally joined as a backer. While I have since managed to buy/trade all closed OD's with the exception of Steam & Brass, I didn't want to list all projects, just those I backed. Hence also my omission of Lords of Gossamer and Shadow, all 4th edition Open Designs etc. - the above list only represents the experiences I had. :)

But thanks a lot for chiming in - I second your assessment on when to pledge and when not to.

Cheers!


Endzeitgeist wrote:

I'm aware of all the projects you worked on (and am currently writing a review for one overdue glorious piece - you may guess which one I mean...) and deliberately only listed all projects I personally joined as a backer. While I have since managed to buy/trade all closed OD's with the exception of Steam & Brass, I didn't want to list all projects, just those I backed. Hence also my omission of Lords of Gossamer and Shadow, all 4th edition Open Designs etc. - the above list only represents the experiences I had. :)

But thanks a lot for chiming in - I second your assessment on when to pledge and when not to.

That makes sense-- I figured I'd point out there are a few shops that have a lot more experience at this and some of the other projects out there from them. I think you make a good point about only noting the ones you've joined.

Personally, the warning flags for a project now include when they start talking about goals other than the primary goal. If it's a book, then make the book bigger, make it more color, get better art, a better cover, etc. When t-shirts and other extras start showing up, well, then I have to really think about things, but if I'm still jazzed about the concept then I'll sit tight and give it a go. The d20Monkey project is a good example of this, and he's come through in spades. There have been quite a few glorious self-imploding disaster stories, but then I look at Early Dark, Out of Violent Planet, Do: Pilgrims of the Flying Temple, Technoir, Children of Fire, Human Contact, Coronets but Never Crowns, Shelter in Place, Parsec, Advanced Encounters, Spears of the Dawn, Journeys into the West, Midgard Tales, now Numenera... KS can be successful and give small projects a great place to happen. It's definitely reinvigorated RPG creation, in my opinion.

-Ben.


Damn, I forgot Sneak Attack Press' Advanced Encounters-KS - and I actually had myself immortalized in that one. Oo

I also joined Numenara and the Tex Murphy-game - looking forward to seeing what/when they deliver.

So yeah - super delivery, superb products on that one. The Terrain Toolbox is one of my most used supplements.

Beyond that - I don't use minis, last time I got a shirt it was S and is still two sizes too large for me and generally, I'm all for more content and art...and better editing/layout. Big projects like Kickstarters get much leeway for being flawed than others. And yes, no book is expected to be perfect, but if glitches do crop up, they're twice as annoying.

Liberty's Edge

terraleon wrote:
Endzeitgeist wrote:

For what it's worth, here's my experience with Kickstarter/Patronage:

Open Design/Kobold Press: Almost always on time. If there are delays, the people are open about it and honestly, those delays I've experienced were ok and due to stretch-goals etc. With one exception: The Freeport-module. The Designer had to cancel it and I'm still waiting for that one. With their track record (and after managing to get Red Eye of Azathoth out against all odds) I'm confident I'll see it.

(Above emphasis mine) Dark Deeds in Freeport is in editing, IIRC, so then it goes into layout hell, and layout's being preoccupied with Deep Magic...well, who knows how that'll go (probably the layout artist). I will see what I can discern from the PtB.

Layout hell? You mean layout field of daisies! ;)

It just so happens that I have something of an 'in' with the layout artist, and I think it's safe to say things are definitely moving forward with Dark Deeds in Freeport ... some very nice art has been turned in, cartography is coming along nicely etc. End, I'm pretty confident you'll see it too! :)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
ShadowcatX wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:

Thankfully, I haven't had a Kickstarter fail to deliver yet.

Be horribly late in fulfilling their goals, yes. Fail to deliver, no.

I guess that really depends on the definition of failure.

My first backed project was Patrons of the Monstrous Arts.

I received the book three years after the fund date, two years after the promised date.

Was that failure?

Sovereign Court

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

92 projects backed -

3 still running (Ponies in Pathfinder, Spheres of Power, N.R.G.)

12 unsuccessful/Cancelled

1 in limbo (Wooden Promises, but I backed only with 5$, so that's not too bad)
2 projects I backed with insufficient funds for international shipping
(Castles & Crusades, plus Shadowlands). => PDF yes, Books NO! Several tries to contact the companies about providing additional funds for shipping the print books have not gotten any answers. (Angry nerd rage... WHERE ARE MY BOOKS!)

2010 - 4 projects finished successful (prime examples: Christopher West maps, Gaming Paper Adventures Megadungeon)
2011 - 10 successful projects (2 projects without print books see above, this was before international shipping became instituted, best successful projects: Jorney to the West by Open Design/Kobold Press, New maps by Christopher West)
2012 - 29 successful projects (one in limbo - see above, 11 finished completely e.g. Reaper Bones, Rappan Athuk, rest still underway)
2013 - 34 successful projects backed (and counting)

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Damn you Oliver, you're beating me! *shakes fist*
:P

Liberty's Edge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Here is a very good article called kickstarter is broken and it highlights one of the reasons I always make the inquiries I do and makes me want to go even more in depth when questioning companies I'm not already familiar with.

BTW, this isn't aimed at Clockwork Gnome, just posting it here because it fit the turn the discussion took.


ShadowcatX wrote:

Here is a very good article called kickstarter is broken and it highlights one of the reasons I always make the inquiries I do and makes me want to go even more in depth when questioning companies I'm not already familiar with.

BTW, this isn't aimed at Clockwork Gnome, just posting it here because it fit the turn the discussion took.

Fantastic article. People should always look at who is making the product and what their plan is to bring it to market!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Thanks for the link Shadowcatx. Loved the headline, even if it was just an attention grabber - the central point that we are to blame is kinda true - if no-one asks the whys and wherefores the we can't complain when it goes belly up...


Wow, thanks for all the information on this and everything else... I set up this thread because I was one of the unlucky ones that didn't find out about the KS till it was bought and paid for, and closed. So I don't get the backer updates.

I am a patient man, so I'm still looking forward to seeing the finished product when it finally does land. Fans making the books they would like to get, I can understand things taking more time than expected, but I also know they wanna make it quality.

So keep on working, and remember us here from time to time. So when this book gets done, I WILL be getting it. =]


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Any recent updates on Sailing the Starlit Seas?

I'm not a backer or anything like that, but I'm eager to get the PDF when it comes out.


Is this still a thing? The Clockwork Gnome website doesn't even seem to exist anymore. I would really love to buy this book if it exists (or will exist soon). So, I guess the question is, is anything happening with this?


Brandon Verkennes wrote:
Is this still a thing? The Clockwork Gnome website doesn't even seem to exist anymore. I would really love to buy this book if it exists (or will exist soon). So, I guess the question is, is anything happening with this?

Given the official Updates on the Kickstarter site, I would say "this is NOT a thing".

LINK to Updates

Super sad, it looked absolutely fantastic, and I would back it tomorrow if it was relaunched with some guarantees, samples and perhaps initial content. Or buy it as a published book tomorrow based on the vital and conceptual promise. But alas it is not to be...

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