We are bored with the Monk Threads


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Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Seriously, like ...

I get that there's a vocal minority who thinks that the Monk class has been violated from behind using some funky monk weapon (ideally one that they are not proficient with, such as the aptly named Monk's Spade) and that SKR and Jason gloat every day about how much misery they have brought to the world by daring to not rewrite Monks in the CRB 3 years ago BUT this is like getting old and yes I am tired of blocking those threads off.

If you guys (I mean the Monk Advocacy Drive, abbreviated as MAD) think that producing thread number 45 *or* hijacking thread number 504 is bringing you closer to your goal I assure you, as a vehement WoW player for 5 years, "buff X" threads don't work.

Unless you're actually voting with your money and dramatically cancelling your purchases and leaving Pathfinder for F.A.T.A.L. or whatever else.

In which case please remember to announce that on the forum so that I can post the obligatory "can I haz ur stuff" post.

Sincerely,
The Bag With Teeth


Do you always use the majestic plural when stating your opinions?

Dark Archive

I think this could be said about most threads,but hey its a forum. What else should it be full of.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Grimmy wrote:
Do you always use the majestic plural when stating your opinions?

Of course, to do anything less would demean all those sentient beings I have swallowed and not yet fully digested over the centuries.


I'm more bored with all those "is grease flamable?" or other reocuring threads.

As to wow forums: There only "make everything easy as hell" and "nerf xy" threats show any effect.

But I agree with you that all those monk threads will not accomplish anything but show that many pathfinder players don't like the current monk.

Liberty's Edge

Im actually in agreement with Gorbachev. Nothing wrong with starting a thread. When its either the same thread reworded or a theorycrafting and or catastrophizing thread where imo it stops being a decent place to post. Its getting to the point where imo the forum looks like a polluted river where it once looked like a clean one. I think the Monk is underpowered and the flurry of blows nerf did nothing to help matters. Yet Im not coming on here and starting a thread for the sake of starting a thread. So saying well its inevitable is imo BS.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I stopped reading monk threads ages ago. In fact, I'm surprised I bothered to read this one.

In play, I've never seen a problem with the rules as written.


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Mad About Monk Threads Thread #6, I think.


You do see the irony in that this is a monk thread, don't you, Gorbacz?

I find the threads interesting. Many of them are about builds and alternate fixes. Not every post is full of derision, or rather, not every post is. I play a monk at a low level; I'm curious to see if I'll get to a high level pre- or post- fix.

Conversely, I have no interest in playing a Synthesist, so I take the dramatic option of not reading those threads.

Although, occasionally, I do, because any and all broken or controversial aspects of a given game don't get to me and I get curious about other people's ways of thinking.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

My threads bring all the monks to the yard, ah ah.


This is serious question, so please do not think that I just being sarcastic:

If you are bored with Monk Threads, then why not just quit reading Monk Threads?

Hmmmmm?

That being said, just about everyone has a favorite class which they keep coming back to play time and again. For me, personally, it is the Monk.

Now, I started playing AD&D back '86, and the first Monk I ever played was straight from the pages of the Player's Handbook (1st edition, mind). d4 hit die, rogue THAC0, cleric Saves, and all that jazz. But it was a fun as hell class to play, and when I got around 8th level or so, I was dealing out nearly as much damage in combat as Paladin and Ranger.

Then we found the revised Monk in Dragon Magazine (the article "He's Got a Lot to Kick About") that was also reprinted in one of the Best of Dragon compilations. Whoa, nellie. My DM let me switch the character over and I never had any problems with him after that. I wasn't an overpowered god, but I always had something to offer my party.

The thing is, the game left that Monk behind. Third Edition had some good ideas, but horribly bad execution; 3.5 just plastered over the cracks in the class. And then comes Pathfinder, which powers up EVERYTHING . . . except the Monk.

Now, whether you like seeing discussion on the class or not, whether you like seeing the profusion of threads on this issue or not, as long as the Monk class has folks out there who are still in loves with the concept of a D&D Monk, you are going to have them.

And if that ain't your cup of tea, the answer is a simple one. You don't have to read them. Ignore the threads and move along, nothing to see here.

And that is all I have to say about that.

MA


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master arminas wrote:

This is serious question, so please do not think that I just being sarcastic:

If you are bored with Monk Threads, then why not just quit reading Monk Threads?

Hmmmmm?

That being said, just about everyone has a favorite class which they keep coming back to play time and again. For me, personally, it is the Monk.

Now, I started playing AD&D back '86, and the first Monk I ever played was straight from the pages of the Player's Handbook (1st edition, mind). d4 hit die, rogue THAC0, cleric Saves, and all that jazz. But it was a fun as hell class to play, and when I got around 8th level or so, I was dealing out nearly as much damage in combat as Paladin and Ranger.

Then we found the revised Monk in Dragon Magazine (the article "He's Got a Lot to Kick About") that was also reprinted in one of the Best of Dragon compilations. Whoa, nellie. My DM let me switch the character over and I never had any problems with him after that. I wasn't an overpowered god, but I always had something to offer my party.

The thing is, the game left that Monk behind. Third Edition had some good ideas, but horribly bad execution; 3.5 just plastered over the cracks in the class. And then comes Pathfinder, which powers up EVERYTHING . . . except the Monk.

Now, whether you like seeing discussion on the class or not, whether you like seeing the profusion of threads on this issue or not, as long as the Monk class has folks out there who are still in loves with the concept of a D&D Monk, you are going to have them.

And if that ain't your cup of tea, the answer is a simple one. You don't have to read them. Ignore the threads and move along, nothing to see here.

And that is all I have to say about that.

MA

It's hard to when people keep inserting their complaints about the monk in every thread about the monk, whether it's about balancing them or not. Pretty much any monk thread gets hijacked into "How can we fix the monk!?!". Recent example was one about the Champion of Irori prestige class and smiting, which sounded really super cool... until it descended into the usual "Monks can't have nice things" and "Probably will get erratad into worthlessness". I actually want to see the monk fixed and I'm tired of seeing it.

I mostly stopped reading the main monk threads because it's gotten boring reading the same thing over and over again, with people restating why the monk sucks, posting their fix, someone critiquing why that fix won't help, some snark comment about Paizo, Paizo stepping in explaining stuff, people apologizing because "they are passionate", someone saying "The monk doesn't suck," and finally coming back to full circle on why the monk sucks.

You want us to ignore the threads? Fine, that's cool. I just want people to stop using ALL the monk threads as their personal soapbox to spread the gospel of how Paizo hates monks. Please?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

What Odraude said. Every thread is a Monk thread, because MAD finds a way to squeeze their arguments into anything.


Can someone make the top 10 most popular threads are in the forums? Falling paladins should be like #3 or #1 ;p


We should a top ten of each year. God I remember when Jade Regent and Ultimate Combat was announced and the ensuing tsunami of haters furious that they dare put Asian elements into their Pathfinder. Some threads I remember...

Ninja's just a rogue
Samurai is a social class, not a fighter
F&&! Fireams!
Ninja's should be able to do ki abilities because it's not realistic
F#&@ firearms!
Katanas should just be a masterwork bastard sword
Seriously, f%~# firearms!

I'm actually proud of the forums that a similar thing hasn't happened with the announcement of Mythic Adventures.


Gorbacz wrote:

Seriously, like ...

I get that there's a vocal minority who thinks that the Monk class has been violated from behind using some funky monk weapon (ideally one that they are not proficient with, such as the aptly named Monk's Spade) and that SKR and Jason gloat every day about how much misery they have brought to the world by daring to not rewrite Monks in the CRB 3 years ago BUT this is like getting old and yes I am tired of blocking those threads off.

If you guys (I mean the Monk Advocacy Drive, abbreviated as MAD) think that producing thread number 45 *or* hijacking thread number 504 is bringing you closer to your goal I assure you, as a vehement WoW player for 5 years, "buff X" threads don't work.

Unless you're actually voting with your money and dramatically cancelling your purchases and leaving Pathfinder for F.A.T.A.L. or whatever else.

In which case please remember to announce that on the forum so that I can post the obligatory "can I haz ur stuff" post.

Sincerely,
The Bag With Teeth

This is funny I got tired of them as well.


Odraude wrote:
It's hard to when people keep inserting their complaints about the monk in every thread about the monk, whether it's about balancing them or not. Pretty much any monk thread gets hijacked into "How can we fix the monk!?!"....

Maybe that's because the problems with the monk go so deep that any thread about the monk must invariably touch on one or more of them? Perhaps you confuse the magnitude of the response with the magnitude of the problem, the two do relate to one another.

But I'll promise Gorbacz this: when Paizo fix the monk, we'll stop commenting on the monk's problems. Happy? :D


Gorbacz wrote:
What Odraude said. Every thread is a Monk thread, because MAD finds a way to squeeze their arguments into anything.

When every one's a monk thread... no one is!

:O


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Dabbler wrote:
Odraude wrote:
It's hard to when people keep inserting their complaints about the monk in every thread about the monk, whether it's about balancing them or not. Pretty much any monk thread gets hijacked into "How can we fix the monk!?!"....

Maybe that's because the problems with the monk go so deep that any thread about the monk must invariably touch on one or more of them? Perhaps you confuse the magnitude of the response with the magnitude of the problem, the two do relate to one another.

But I'll promise Gorbacz this: when Paizo fix the monk, we'll stop commenting on the monk's problems. Happy? :D

It makes it difficult for the rest of us that are exasperated with the complaints to ignore it though. And now, if I want to post something about a monk build I have, I know it's going to be useless because I'm just going to get a wave of people whining about how Paizo violated their monk and kicked their puppy and pooped in their Cheerios. I'd rather not ignore every single monk thread in existence. It's like whenever I get accosted by the Jehovah Witnesses every week.

I understand that people want to see the monk fixed, but they are coming across less as a reasonable group that are passionate, and more like this. :)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Dabbler wrote:


But I'll promise Gorbacz this: when Paizo fix the monk, we'll stop commenting on the monk's problems. Happy? :D

Nope, that would mean that in order to maintain some ontological coherency I would have to be O.K. with the "get your X out of my fantasy" folks, the "can I haz play a paladin" folks, the "martial/caster issue" folks and perhaps the worst of all, the Prone Shooter People, and that won't float. Sorry :)

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Odraude wrote:
It's like whenever I get accosted by the Jehovah Witnesses every week.

I think we have just solved the "wtf is the actual real life inspiration for the Monk class" issue. ;-P


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Nimon wrote:


I think this could be said about most threads,but hey its a forum. What else should it be full of.

Statistically, porn. :(


Gorbacz wrote:
Odraude wrote:
It's like whenever I get accosted by the Jehovah Witnesses every week.
I think we have just solved the "wtf is the actual real life inspiration for the Monk class" issue. ;-P

I've been chased down by these guys on my way from work every g@# d#&ned Sunday. It's no fair they have bikes and I have fake knees! :(


Odraude wrote:
Dabbler wrote:
Odraude wrote:
It's hard to when people keep inserting their complaints about the monk in every thread about the monk, whether it's about balancing them or not. Pretty much any monk thread gets hijacked into "How can we fix the monk!?!"....

Maybe that's because the problems with the monk go so deep that any thread about the monk must invariably touch on one or more of them? Perhaps you confuse the magnitude of the response with the magnitude of the problem, the two do relate to one another.

But I'll promise Gorbacz this: when Paizo fix the monk, we'll stop commenting on the monk's problems. Happy? :D

It makes it difficult for the rest of us that are exasperated with the complaints to ignore it though. And now, if I want to post something about a monk build I have, I know it's going to be useless because I'm just going to get a wave of people whining about how Paizo violated their monk and kicked their puppy and pooped in their Cheerios. I'd rather not ignore every single monk thread in existence.

Yes, it must be frustrating, I get that. I for one will try and restrain myself, but I can't speak for everyone. If a thread doesn't touch on the monk's problems I won't bring them up.

Odraude wrote:
It's like whenever I get accosted by the Jehovah Witnesses every week.

Ah well, that's an easy one a friend of mine solved long ago. Make an appointment and invite them around. When they arrive show them into the same room as the Mormons or any other doorstep religion pedlars (I mean no offence to anyone of any particular religion, I simply point out that knocking on doors annoys more people than it converts). Withdraw and make the tea/coffee/whatever and make sure you didn't leave anything breakable in the room.

I promise, none of them will ever bother you again.

Odraude wrote:
I understand that people want to see the monk fixed, but they are coming across less as a reasonable group that are passionate, and more like this.

Yeah, I get that. There are some people who have become very frustrated with the slow progress, and they are very strident. Like I said, if a thread does not touch on monk problems, I will try not to mention them.

The big problem is, when you post a monk thread you do so to get the monk-lovers to comment, correct? And most of the monk-lovers are frustrated with the monk's problems so...

Edit: Actually this monk thread hasn't gone that way.

Sovereign Court

I agree, it's getting really annoying especially when I see people playing Monks, having fun and more often then not stomping face.

Seriously, nerf Monk AC. It can get way too high especially if they dip in other classes. Bunch of unhittable monk PC's roaming about whining they can't sunder reality with a whim really doesn't look very kosher.


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Odraude wrote:
It's like whenever I get accosted by the Jehovah Witnesses every week.

Doesn't happen to me, anymore. I finally invited them into my home one weekend . . . after I have gotten out my collection of ten pistols, three shotguns, nine rifles, and roughly two dozen knifes, complete with cleaning supplies, boxes of ammunition, and a collection of both empty and loaded magazines (for the weapons that needed them).

And I made certain to sit down in my chair facing them and proceeded to clean and oil my weapons (while talking to them . . . the weapons, not the JWs), and pointedly ignoring them. Except to ask . . . every thirtyy seconds . . . you guy's aren't a cult are you? 'Cause I hate cults.

Strangely enough, they never came back.

MA


I can't do that. They follow me on their bikes and I end up hopping my fence, yelling obscenities like a crazy person.


master arminas wrote:
That being said, just about everyone has a favorite class which they keep coming back to play time and again. For me, personally, it is the Monk.

Wait, what? I thought you only played wizards.


Morgen wrote:

I agree, it's getting really annoying especially when I see people playing Monks, having fun and more often then not stomping face.

Seriously, nerf Monk AC. It can get way too high especially if they dip in other classes. Bunch of unhittable monk PC's roaming about whining they can't sunder reality with a whim really doesn't look very kosher.

Why not give Monks option at 1st:

unarmored as they are now
or wear any (proficient currently in light Armor and monmk level based bonus to AC (so no Wis to AC, but yes the 1/4th Monk class)

If you have issue with Monk AC, have them use the Armor version.


master arminas wrote:
Odraude wrote:
It's like whenever I get accosted by the Jehovah Witnesses every week.

Doesn't happen to me, anymore. I finally invited them into my home one weekend . . . after I have gotten out my collection of ten pistols, three shotguns, nine rifles, and roughly two dozen knifes, complete with cleaning supplies, boxes of ammunition, and a collection of both empty and loaded magazines (for the weapons that needed them).

And I made certain to sit down in my chair facing them and proceeded to clean and oil my weapons (while talking to them . . . the weapons, not the JWs), and pointedly ignoring them. Except to ask . . . every thirtyy seconds . . . you guy's aren't a cult are you? 'Cause I hate cults.

Strangely enough, they never came back.

MA

A friend of mine (who was a priest in he Universal Church of Enlightenment... All Hail Bob... Seriously, he paid the 49.99 to become a priest) invited a group of Jehovah Witnesses in but told them they would have to listen to him first about his theology. Two hours later they asked to leave.

Personally, I think it takes serious balls to evangelize like they do, so I just accept their literature and play nice (although my wife says its because it is a hot 18yr old knocking).
Bythe way, I love that a monk thread is being hijacked.

Liberty's Edge

Gorbacz wrote:
What Odraude said. Every thread is a Monk thread, because MAD finds a way to squeeze their arguments into anything.

I thought all threads were God Wizard threads?


Like all things in their time, this too shall pass. Monk threads will be replaced with another class' threads. I like my monks as is to be honest, and I generally only play Core + Advanced. Everyone will get tired of some type of thread long before people creating those threads get tired of making them.

I'll still read the threads,on monks or any other topic, mainly because there usually are a few gems posted.

Scarab Sages

ciretose wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
What Odraude said. Every thread is a Monk thread, because MAD finds a way to squeeze their arguments into anything.
I thought all threads were God Wizard threads?

AM PALADIN THREADS.


Morgen wrote:
I agree, it's getting really annoying especially when I see people playing Monks, having fun and more often then not stomping face.

I wish I played in these games.

Morgen wrote:
Seriously, nerf Monk AC. It can get way too high especially if they dip in other classes. Bunch of unhittable monk PC's roaming about whining they can't sunder reality with a whim really doesn't look very kosher.

Wow, you aren't reading the same threads I am either.


Gorbz,

I respect you and I like your "Style" but if i may pose a question If you don't read the threads why care don't read the, ? Master arminus and Dabbler basically give there input and agree generally and answer he same question that was asked on page 7 as on page 27 .

I do get it if a thread mentions the monk it turns into a repeat of section 4 of the "flurry of changes to flurry of blows" I think what I notice (switching gears) is if we see a monk related question or comment to do the following:

1. ignore it It is most likely haters hating and we all know that haters got to hate and players got to play.

2. maybe give a link to the Flurry of changed to Flurry of blows thread.


master arminas wrote:

Doesn't happen to me, anymore. I finally invited them into my home one weekend . . . after I have gotten out my collection of ten pistols, three shotguns, nine rifles, and roughly two dozen knifes, complete with cleaning supplies, boxes of ammunition, and a collection of both empty and loaded magazines (for the weapons that needed them).

And I made certain to sit down in my chair facing them and proceeded to clean and oil my weapons (while talking to them . . . the weapons, not the JWs), and pointedly ignoring them. Except to ask . . . every thirtyy seconds . . . you guy's aren't a cult are you? 'Cause I hate cults.

Strangely enough, they never came back.

MA

Ballsy. I can't get away with that though. Damn Canadian gun control!! Funny though, they only came to my house once. After he stuck his foot in the door I said come back again and I'll call the cops. Never came back. Which is funny, seeing as I live in Georgetown, which ironically boasts the World Headquarters of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

(Oh and sorry about the thread hijack)


Odraude wrote:

We should a top ten of each year. God I remember when Jade Regent and Ultimate Combat was announced and the ensuing tsunami of haters furious that they dare put Asian elements into their Pathfinder. Some threads I remember...

Ninja's just a rogue
Samurai is a social class, not a fighter
F#$* Fireams!
Ninja's should be able to do ki abilities because it's not realistic
F$*~ firearms!
Katanas should just be a masterwork bastard sword
Seriously, f%%! firearms!

I'm actually proud of the forums that a similar thing hasn't happened with the announcement of Mythic Adventures.

Just give them time. They'll get around to it.


I have been tempted, but never had the energy to write a document with monk complaints similar to the "Psionics are Overpowered Myth" documents that explain the problems of that always come up. I hate to write though. I think someone like Ashiel would do a good just at writing all of the points and counterpoints. He likes to write long post, or at least it seems that way. Maybe if I do 1 page a day it will work, just don't hold your breath.


Why are there no threads on boards?

Liberty's Edge

wraithstrike wrote:
I think someone like Ashiel would do a good just at writing all of the points and counterpoints.

None of his threads are controversial, and he always writes both sides opinions fairly and without bias to his position.

That would fix everything.


ciretose wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
I think someone like Ashiel would do a good just at writing all of the points and counterpoints.

None of his threads are controversial, and he always writes both sides opinions fairly and without bias to his position.

That would fix everything.

I will try to start tonight, but I won't officially commit until I come up with a format, and an idea of how much writing I will have to do.


Even if you were tied to a chair Clockwork Orange style with nothing but monk related posts being flashed on a screen in front of you -- nothing would actually force you to read a word of it.


I guess this can be considered Website Feedback...

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Gorbacz wrote:
I get that there's a vocal minority who thinks that the Monk class has been violated from behind using some funky monk weapon

And there's a vocal minority that likes to rant about how everyone who thinks that is a whining nancy and incompetent, even when the thread is specifically not about that. They're both rather small minorities. However, I do not believe that the group that believes the Monk class is fully powered is in the majority; at best, those who believe it is underpowered combined with those who have no opinion are in the majority.

Quote:
this is like getting old and yes I am tired of blocking those threads off.

So don't make another one. It's a forum; there's no on-topic thread more annoying then a "stop talking about that!" thread.


The monk is right now in the same place that the gish-fighter/mage was a couple of years ago. Give it time, voice your opinions, or ignore it altogether, but things will change eventually. Whining about it, or whining about others' whining about it, will do nothing but increase the noise-to-signal ratio of the boards as a whole.


Look at this dev response. I think we all need to chill out.


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Pendin Fust wrote:
Look at this dev response. I think we all need to chill out.

People have. Hasn't changed a thing.


yeah, monk threads are boring and repetitive, I miss those ciretose Vs ahiles trheads, they were full of surprises.


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It's not the subject of Monks I find boring, it is the same couple of people saying the same couple of complaints over and over that kills it for me. I keep reading the threads with the hope I will find something new, but I don't.


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Nicos wrote:
yeah, monk threads are boring and repetitive, I miss those ciretose Vs ahiles trheads, they were full of surprises.

Ciretose and Co. vs Ashiel and Co. you mean?

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