Changeling Coven Leaders?


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

The Coven Hex for witches states:

Coven (Ex): The witch counts as a hag for the purpose of joining a hag’s coven. The coven must contain at least one hag. In addition, whenever the witch with this hex is within 30 feet of another witch with this hex, she can use the aid another action to grant a +1 bonus to the other witch’s caster level for 1 round. This bonus applies to the witch’s spells and all of her hexes.

Does a Changeling Witch with the Coven Hex count as a Hag for this purpose? Can she be the leader of the coven, or does the coven need a 'true' Hag to be the focal point of the coven?


The key thing is changelings are not hags. They basically magically and mechanically are a wholly desperate rave until they accept the call. So no, they do not count for the coven hex.


GM fiat prevails.

I say yes because I like the idea of group of witches seeking a young lady who is ignorant of her true parentage.

Also because the coven hex is otherwise worthless unless your GM allows Leadership to gain hag cohort.

Liberty's Edge

Thanks for your opinions.


I would say no, because that would give an unfair advantage to a simple PC race. The hag coven spells are ridiculously powerful. I think that mechanic mostly exists not for players to take advantage of, but for the ST to craft stories that combine hags and witches. A similar question arises if you changeling player wants to "grow up" without cost into a full blown hag. She would need a level adjustment. If you are going to grant access to that much power there should be a recalculation of whether it requires a level adjustment to play a changeling. Of course, if you as the ST don't intend to allow any changelings as PCs, or don't mind granting disproportionate perks for the sake of story, then go right ahead. But I would say the plain meaning of the text says that changelings are not hags.


Anyone can count as a hag if they have an iron collar of the unbound coven :3


A Steal at only 46,000 Gold!

Anyway, once you do manage to form a coven is there any way to get around the fact that all the coven spell-like DC's are Cha based?

I know its meant to be an NPC power but it is pretty attainable if you have enough leadership to get a witch or two in your following (or other party members).

I guess you could build an int/cha witch though

Sovereign Court

Ridiculon wrote:

A Steal at only 46,000 Gold!

Anyway, once you do manage to form a coven is there any way to get around the fact that all the coven spell-like DC's are Cha based?

I know its meant to be an NPC power but it is pretty attainable if you have enough leadership to get a witch or two in your following (or other party members).

I guess you could build an int/cha witch though

Bring in a sorcerer with the Accursed bloodline.

For fun, also bring a shaman who uses Witch Hex to pick up Coven and you have a nice trinity going.


Ascalaphus wrote:

Bring in a sorcerer with the Accursed bloodline.

For fun, also bring a shaman who uses Witch Hex to pick up Coven and you have a nice trinity going.

Nice, that would be a pretty fun party too


Just found the Shawl of the Crone, between that and the collar you could make a Hag's coven out of pretty much any npc dumb enough to follow a witch haha


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
darth_borehd wrote:
Also because the coven hex is otherwise worthless unless your GM allows Leadership to gain hag cohort.

You still get the aid another aspect without the hag. Might be worth a hex, might not.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Ascalaphus wrote:
Ridiculon wrote:

A Steal at only 46,000 Gold!

Anyway, once you do manage to form a coven is there any way to get around the fact that all the coven spell-like DC's are Cha based?

I know its meant to be an NPC power but it is pretty attainable if you have enough leadership to get a witch or two in your following (or other party members).

I guess you could build an int/cha witch though

Bring in a sorcerer with the Accursed bloodline.

For fun, also bring a shaman who uses Witch Hex to pick up Coven and you have a nice trinity going.

When I did this, I used a hexcrafter magus for the third. ^_^

Don't forget about VMC witch - it actually has something to contribute for once.


S'Truth! Covens for everyone!

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

For anyone with an interest in the topic, some total nobody did an article about hags and covens in the most recent Wayfinder. There might be something to interest changeling lovers in there too...

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