"As if one size category larger"


Rules Questions


I was reading my copy of Ultimate Equipment, when I stumbled upon the "Impact" weapon special ability, and it got me wondering. Do effects that say that a weapon deals damage "as if it was one size category larger" stack? For example, were I to use the Impact weapon ability, the lead blades spell, a Belt of Thunderous Charging, and the enlarge person, which of these would stack?

I've got a dwarven Samurai(Ronin)/Forgemaster Cleric player wondering if it works.

If it's already been answered, sorry, but couldn't seem to find a reference to this specific problem in the forums.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

No truly official answer, but James Jacobs said that even though it's not explicitly stated in the rules, he would treat the the feats/spells/special properties on the item as a "size bonus", which therefore wouldn't stack with each other, however enlarge person actually changes the size of the weapon for the duration, so that would stack with any one of the others.

Silver Crusade

I good way to look at it, in the Psionics stuff Half-Giants have a racial ability where they can weild a weapon one size category larger then themselves. This ability specifies that it does stack with other size altering abilities. Based on that, RAI, if it doesn't specify, it doesn't stack. But in the end its the DM's call.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

It increases damage, not size. It stacks, because it is not an actual size bonus.


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Well, since all modify based on your original size, they all overlap. Lead blades would make you deal one size larger than normal (so large, instead of medium), impact also deals one size larger than normal (so again, large instead of medium) and I assume the belt has the same wording. So, each increases your damage from medium to large. Getting enlarged via a polymorph spell or somesuch, I would say they stack, since those magical items check your current size and then boost its effective level.


BBT is correct. It is not a "typed" bonus. It isn't a bonus at all. It increases the damage. It stacks.

RAI or RAW have never been that if it doesn't specify it doesn't stack. It is quiet the opposite, actually. If it doesn't specify a bonus type then it does stack with everything else.


Since it references your current size they don't stack, but if you can increase your current size, and then find something with the "as if" wording then those stack.


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Impact says "as if it was one size category larger".
Lead Blades increases the die size "as if one size category larger than they actually are."
Enlarge Person increases the actual size of you and your weapons.
I am unfamiliar with Belt of Thunderous Charging or the wording of this item.
Shillelagh says, "It deals damage as if it were two size categories larger"

These would all stack. The only things that do not stack are typed bonuses. None of these effects give typed bonuses. An example of something that wouldn't stack would be Alter Self giving a size bonus to Strength and Enlarge Person giving a size bonus to Strength. This is not the same.


What I am saying is if you are medium and an ability says "as if.."1 size category large would move you from 1d6 to 1d8 as an example.

Now let's says you get another "as if.." applied. It is once again referencing your size which is still medium. It is not asking for the damage die you attack with which is large. Since it is once again referencing size you still at 1d8.

Any other "as if" will also check your size not the size you hit as.

If it ask for the damage dice you attack with then it would increase.

It is like trying to use two 10 foot ladders. You can climb them both at once, but you won't get any higher. :)

edit:I just chose 1d6 as a random number.

edit:added a ":)" to show tone of voice.


As if one size larger than what, Lune? One size larger than the actual weapon. Since the weapon's size isn't changing with lead blades, shillelagh, Impact weapons or the belt, they are all modifying the base weapon. Enlarging the creature (though a polymorph, for example) would stack with these other spells or properties, because the weapon increases its base size, then you would increase its effective size.


Mmm... ok, I can see what your saying. Hm. It might depend on the actual rules text of things then. Like if something said "it increases the damage dice as if the weapon were one size category larger" then this would stack because it doesn't mention the original size, just that it increases the damage. On the other hand Lead Blades does say "larger than they actually are." which is different. I can see that perspective.

Well anyway Enlarge Person would stack with any of the others then for sure. So would something like Powerful Build. You could also stack Titan Mauler's class abilities.

Shadow Lodge

Impact - ...dealing damage as if the weapon were one size category larger.

Belt of Thunderous charging - When the wearer makes a charge attack, her melee weapons and natural weapons deal damage as if they were one size category larger than they actually are.

So by the wording they do not stack with each other, but would with enlarge?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Yes. The others are not actual size changes, thus they would stack.

Shadow Lodge

I can read your answer two ways.

1. Yes I am correct and they would stack with enlarge but not each other.

2. Yes they stack with each other and enlarge.

(sorry)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

#1.

Shadow Lodge

That is what I figured. As a player I would want #2. As a DM I am happy with #1. :)

Thank you for taking the time to answer!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

You may have to break it down, so here is how:

Let's say you are medium.

Enlarge Person makes you large.

Impact allows you to deal damage as if one size category larger than Large.

Belt of Thunderous Charging allows you to deal damage as if one size category larger than Large.

Neither allow you to deal damage as if one size category larger than Huge.

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