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Thier Revelation spells should be thier own thing (not related to Focus spells). I would make them special oracle only cantrips that trigger thier curses.
This would remove the janky limitation of not being able to have focus points, etc from multiclassing.
Not quite sure why its set up as a special focus spell that you can just do infinjte times instead of just being a cantrip (which already works that way).
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Thier Revelation spells should be thier own thing (not related to Focus spells). I would make them special oracle only cantrips that trigger thier curses.
This would remove the janky limitation of not being able to have focus points, etc from multiclassing.
Not quite sure why its set up as a special focus spell that you can just do infinjte times instead of just being a cantrip (which already works that way).
You can't do it infinite times. For early levels, you can do it 3 times before it knocks you out for 8 hours. For all practical purposes, you can do it once or twice in your first battle of the day and once for every battle thereafter.
You can't do it infinite times. For early levels, you can do it 3 times before it knocks you out for 8 hours. For all practical purposes, you can do it once or twice in your first battle of the day and once for every battle thereafter.Thier Revelation spells should be thier own thing (not related to Focus spells). I would make them special oracle only cantrips that trigger thier curses.
This would remove the janky limitation of not being able to have focus points, etc from multiclassing.
Not quite sure why its set up as a special focus spell that you can just do infinjte times instead of just being a cantrip (which already works that way).
Ah, I see. I still dont see how that cant work with a cantrip.
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I’d just make them normal Focus spells and remove the Not-Focus mechanics they’re currently burdened with.
Especially the “you’re not allowed to play anymore” for casting 1 too many.
Maybe their schtick can be they start with a full 3 focus pool and can refocus by increasing their curse level... without the whole fall unconscious part. Just increase penalties and negative (and possibly positive as well) effects so it’s a risk reward thing without being overly punitive.
Ah, I see. I still dont see how that cant work with a cantrip.You can't do it infinite times. For early levels, you can do it 3 times before it knocks you out for 8 hours. For all practical purposes, you can do it once or twice in your first battle of the day and once for every battle thereafter.Thier Revelation spells should be thier own thing (not related to Focus spells). I would make them special oracle only cantrips that trigger thier curses.
This would remove the janky limitation of not being able to have focus points, etc from multiclassing.
Not quite sure why its set up as a special focus spell that you can just do infinjte times instead of just being a cantrip (which already works that way).
1) Cantrips are defined by their ability to be used at will. Creating an entire set of them that aren't really at will would itself be janky.
2) Focus points and Revelation spells are both meant to give you a pool of potent spells that is semi-renewable between fights but can't be full blown spammed. Making Revelation spells their own pool would more than double the usage the Oracle gets of such powers compared to other classes, which has balance concerns. I'm not saying the Oracle shouldn't get that buff, mind you, given how severe their curses are, but it IS a buff and therefore a balance concern.
I still dont get it. Focus spells are meant to use focus points (hence the name). I dont see why the oracle powers are implemented in this janky way that preclude other focus powers when they can just be special cantrips that ratchet up your curse.
Either solution requires going against the grain of PF2 design. I am just suggesting a solution that doesnt require some weird except that fouls up multiclassing.
I still dont get it. Focus spells are meant to use focus points (hence the name). I dont see why the oracle powers are implemented in this janky way that preclude other focus powers when they can just be special cantrips that ratchet up your curse.
Either solution requires going against the grain of PF2 design. I am just suggesting a solution that doesnt require some weird except that fouls up multiclassing.
I dunno how to explain it any clearer. You can either have focus spells that aren't really focus spells or cantrips that aren't really cantrips. Both are janky, with the former probably being a little jankier, but the latter is more powerful and thus probably raised balance concerns.
I reread it several times and don't see how making revelation spells into special cantrips that ratchet up your curse is somehow more inherently powerful than calling them focus spells.
The limit is still there since you go unconcious if you cast one at max curse. So to-may-to, to-mah-to, I guess.
This is just about making it less janky and having the class play nice with focus spells gained through dedication.
I still dont get it. Focus spells are meant to use focus points (hence the name). I dont see why the oracle powers are implemented in this janky way that preclude other focus powers when they can just be special cantrips that ratchet up your curse.
Either solution requires going against the grain of PF2 design. I am just suggesting a solution that doesnt require some weird except that fouls up multiclassing.
Where is this idea coming from that you can't get other focus spells?
Instead, you cast revelation spells, or other focus spells you learn, by drawing upon the power of your mystery, which incurs the effects of your oracular curse (see below).
Oracles can get bloodline powers or whatever focus spell they can access. They just use their curse pool rather than Focus Points.
I still dont get it. Focus spells are meant to use focus points (hence the name). I dont see why the oracle powers are implemented in this janky way that preclude other focus powers when they can just be special cantrips that ratchet up your curse.
Either solution requires going against the grain of PF2 design. I am just suggesting a solution that doesnt require some weird except that fouls up multiclassing.
Just to point it out. Multiclassing to get new focus spells work. It says specifically that it works and they advance your curse just like Revelation spells...
Edit... Ninja'd by 42 minutes
I reread it several times and don't see how making revelation spells into special cantrips that ratchet up your curse is somehow more inherently powerful than calling them focus spells.
The limit is still there since you go unconcious if you cast one at max curse. So to-may-to, to-mah-to, I guess.
This is just about making it less janky and having the class play nice with focus spells gained through dedication.
That's exactly why they are more powerful: if you multiclass and get actual focus spells, you can get a whole new pool of renewable resources. As is, you gain more options from doing this, but all those options are competing for the same pool.
Let's say a low level life Oracle multiclasses and gets a focus power-- ki strike, as a random example. Your Oracle, once their minor curse kicks in, can use both Delay Affliction and Ki Strike once per combat/refocus cycle. As written the Oracle only gets to use one or the other.
Focus powers are balanced around having a limited number of times you can bust them out for any given fight. That's why a focus pool can't have more than 3 feats and it costs high level feats to refocus more than one point at a time. If the Oracle were to get a secondary pool to cast their Revelation spells from, the Revelation spells would need to be weaker than focus spells.
Which isn't to say you couldn't do this, or that they got the balance point right on the first go, but that's almost certainly the rationale behind the system we currently have.