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I have made a conscious decision to get more people interested in NeoExodus and specifically getting more women who play Pathfinder RPG playing in the NeoExodus setting. For me this isn’t just lip service or some silly promotion to draw interest, this about NeoExodus being open to all and getting past the typical fantasy tropes that have existed since the beginning of time. I may have been, subconsciously, doing this since the creation of the setting of having four of the five major empires run by women and the BBEG from the Khaynites, Widowmaker Scarlet, being a woman but this is something I think will be good for us a company. Amber Scott was nice to work with us on the creation of the Annihilation Sphere and tying it into the background of our terrorist organization, the Folding Circle. I think fantasy RPG games and industry in general can be a bit of an old boy’s network often forgetting that not every woman playing the game doesn’t want to be the “healer” of the group, while the “boys” do all the action.
With this, LPJ Design is going to focus on not just recruiting new women as writers, editors and artists but to promote them to other 3PP and help make their dreams of working in the gaming industry come true. The more different representations you can have in an industry only helps expends the industry.
So first, I would like to hear a few comments from the female fan base and learn specifically what have RPG companies done very right and very wrong to help get you interested in what they were doing.
D_M... I summon you! *looks around* Where is she?
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Don't dress your female characters like strippers. Even in these modern times, we still see so many 3pp products with what look like porn stars on the cover.
And in the interior art.
And basically everywhere.
I would expect that this wouldn't have to be said, but a quick browse through the 3pp stuff on offer on Paizo and RPG Now suggests that it really does need mentioning.
Does anyone really stand like that?
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I'll be honest; the biggest barrier for me with regard to getting into tabletop gaming was other players. I didn't dare even try until I lucked out and fell in with an all-women gaming group online.
Though certainly having women wearing something less overtly male-gazey helps, as does having women be in positions of power and prominence in the setting. Also filling a variety of roles and races, including ones that aren't traditionally attractive.
Don't dress your female characters like strippers. Even in these modern times, we still see so many 3pp products with what look like porn stars on the cover.
And in the interior art.
And basically everywhere.
I would expect that this wouldn't have to be said, but a quick browse through the 3pp stuff on offer on Paizo and RPG Now suggests that it really does need mentioning.
What companies do you feel that have handled this the best?
I'll be honest; the biggest barrier for me with regard to getting into tabletop gaming was other players. I didn't dare even try until I lucked out and fell in with an all-women gaming group online.
Do you feel that is more prevalent with younger gaming groups?
Though certainly having women wearing something less overtly male-gazey helps, as does having women be in positions of power and prominence in the setting. Also filling a variety of roles and races, including ones that aren't traditionally attractive.
While at LPJ Design we am guilty of doing the "stripper fantasy image", we do try to balance the male female ratio of iconics in our setting. We currently have 5 female & 3 male iconics and are adding a another male to "balance" it out.
What would you say is a "typical female role/class" in a fantasy game?
I think I would rather see what your idea of 'well-handled' is and work from there. That can form a baseline. Do you have any examples?
I think I would rather see what your idea of 'well-handled' is and work from there. That can form a baseline. Do you have any examples?
Well the easiest thing to do is go to our company blog and this covers all of our NeoExodus material that we are working on and creating so you can get a fair sample of everything, "good" and "bad".
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Most of the cover art females on your books fall into the 'oh god no' territory of bad, I'm afraid. Contorted, impossible poses, non-protective armour made to show off the body, etc.
It could be worse. It could be Liefield art.
Take a look at this blog for good stuff: Women Fighters in Reasonable Armor
Most of the cover art females on your books fall into the 'oh god no' territory of bad, I'm afraid. Contorted, impossible poses, non-protective armour made to show off the body, etc.
It could be worse. It could be Liefield art.
Take a look at this blog for good stuff: Women Fighters in Reasonable Armor
Besides of the artwork, what would you consider "writing wise" that 3PP need to do better? What would you like to see in adventures & sourcebooks?
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Don't dress your female characters like strippers. Even in these modern times, we still see so many 3pp products with what look like porn stars on the cover.
I would echo everything that's being said about the physical portrayal of women on game product covers. To me, when I see a cover like the one linked above, I immediately think a couple of things:
1. This product is targeted at men with an unhealthy fixation on some things that make me very uncomfortable, such as images of women that are just silly at best and dehumanizing at worst.
2. It's very likely that the women characters in this product are going to be treated as objects. Therefore, there's no reason why I would want to buy and play this product, and even less reason why I would want to look at other products this publisher offers.
Now, whether or not either of these assumptions about the product are true (and I'm betting they're probably not, from what you've said so far), that cover image is powerful enough to make me shake my head and walk away as soon as I see it. So, at least to me as a female gamer/GM, the portrayal of women in cover art is pretty important.
To answer your newest question, another great way to avoid alienating women gamers is to, when writing female characters and their story arcs, avoid falling into seductress/mother rut. Too many times, female characters fall into one of two narrow categories: oversexed vixen or protective mother. Oftentimes, there's really no in between, and that's harmful on a lot of levels. I'm not saying you as a publisher are guilty of this, it's just something to watch out for in general.
My best advice for writing female characters (and I'm sure you already know this, but bear with me) is to just make sure they could pass as real people. Give them dreams. Give them skills. Give them flaws. Make sure they exist for purposes other than titillation or nurturing, and you're golden.
Of course, all this is just my general view of things. But as a female gamer, GM and as a game designer (I write/design for Paizo) I've spent a lot of time thinking about gender issues in gaming, and I just wanted to get all this out there.
As an aside, let me also say that it's fantastic you're making a concerted effort to try to bring more women gamers and characters into the fold. I get the perception that not all companies are concerned about this issue, and it is an important one. Thank you for opening the door to a conversation that is very worthwhile and very meaningful. I personally appreciate it.
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If you're not comfortable with writing female characters, here's an idea:
Write out all your characters, every one of them, with not a single mention of gender. Write their backgrounds, upbringing, adventure and even romance with nary a peek at whether they're male, female, or something else. Give them placeholder names, if you like, or just have last names and a first initial.
Then make cards, put each of their names on them, and shuffle them into two (or more) piles.
One for female, one for male, plus other piles for others if relevant.
Then insert pronouns into their stories. Don't change what they did. Don't change who they had relationships with.
You'll get a very interesting cast.
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What would you say is a "typical female role/class" in a fantasy game?
Would you ask: "What would you say is a "typical male role/class" in a fantasy game?"
Would you ask: "What would you say is a "typical male role/class" in a fantasy game?"
OK, for me (This is my opinion and hold no basis is facts) I would say typical male roles would be Barbarian, Fighter and Monk; and typical female roles would be Cleric, Rogue, Wizard.
Would you ask: "What would you say is a "typical male role/class" in a fantasy game?"OK, for me (This is my opinion and hold no basis is facts) I would say typical male roles would be Barbarian, Fighter and Monk; and typical female roles would be Cleric, Rogue, Wizard.
Funny, I always pictured Wizard to be a more male dominated class.
Are you asking what you think the most typical female roll/class would be, because you'd like to avoid a stereotype, or for a different reason?
My top three favorites are Bard, Paladin and Cleric. But my point is that I don't think you can base what class a person is more likely to play without knowing any other factor other than their gender.
I like Umbral Reaver's idea and will use it the next time I run a game when I write up my npc's.
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If you're not comfortable with writing female characters, here's an idea:
Write out all your characters, every one of them, with not a single mention of gender. Write their backgrounds, upbringing, adventure and even romance with nary a peek at whether they're male, female, or something else. Give them placeholder names, if you like, or just have last names and a first initial.
Then make cards, put each of their names on them, and shuffle them into two (or more) piles.
One for female, one for male, plus other piles for others if relevant.
Then insert pronouns into their stories. Don't change what they did. Don't change who they had relationships with.
You'll get a very interesting cast.
I would recommend performing exercises such as this. The fact that a representative from LPJ felt the need to start this thread indicates that the company is trying too hard.
LPJ has an admitted issue with portraying overly-sexualized and unrealistic female characters. That's a good thing to recognize, but it appears what you are attempting to do is overcorrect the perceived slight. By pushing your product line to include "acceptable" female imagery you are still going to end up creating an unrealistic and artificial setting. It is the focus on female characters that is the issue, not the specific depictions you have included thus far.
Past depictions were focused on the characters' sexual appeal, which swayed the setting and your product design decisions. Now you're attempting to swing the focus in a less-sexualized direction, but the way you are doing this is still going to have an unbalancing effect.
You need to recognize that most fantasy RPG settings are truly gender-neutral in terms of roles, professions, and achievements. Stop viewing your characters as male or female; see them on the merits of their personality, their objectives and goals, their mannerisms and personality; in a truly gender-neutral setting, male or female is simply an aspect of identity. The focus you are giving the subject here demonstrates you are making gender a deciding factor, which will prove just as disruptive.
If you are designing a character, sending out for artwork, whatever, have the armor, clothing, and other equipment be defined, and possibly designed, before gender is identified. It should be based on the character's role in the setting, the demands of their lifestyle. It should reflect their personality, but also their place in the world. After the equipment is established, then you consider gender: Essentially, perform a fitting, just as a tailor or armorsmith would.
This doesn't mean you should sterilize your setting; both male and female sexuality is a very real consideration, and a realistic setting is going to include aspects of it. That said, these considerations should be the exception, not the rule.
If you're not comfortable with writing female characters, here's an idea:
Write out all your characters, every one of them, with not a single mention of gender. Write their backgrounds, upbringing, adventure and even romance with nary a peek at whether they're male, female, or something else. Give them placeholder names, if you like, or just have last names and a first initial.
...
This is a really great way to make sure there's a good variety of character types for all genders, I recommend it. It isn't necessarily always realistic (because while men and women do come in all types, society does treat them differently and that is going to impact their life in many ways), but for the purpose of a fantasy game I think we'd all rather avoid that. It's nice to imagine a world where culture doesn't discourage me from being whatever I want to be based on my gender.
Are you asking what you think the most typical female roll/class would be, because you'd like to avoid a stereotype, or for a different reason?
A little bit of both actually.
I like Umbral Reaver's idea and will use it the next time I run a game when I write up my npc's.
Great idea that I am stealing.
Not all women look like a Victoria Secrets model. Some of us are broader shouldered, not curvaceous, wear are hair short, do not have large tracks of land, have fat pouty lips, etc. In other words we come in all shapes and sizes and appearances just like males do
I think all of us have agreed to this, I am wonder what on the actual role playing side do you think female gamer are more responsive to?
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LPJ has an admitted issue with portraying overly-sexualized and unrealistic female characters. That's a good thing to recognize, but it appears what you are attempting to do is overcorrect the perceived slight. By pushing your product line to include "acceptable" female imagery you are still going to end up creating an unrealistic and artificial setting. It is the focus on female characters that is the issue, not the specific depictions you have included thus far.
What games have this problem exactly? I would like to find this game that has so little objectification and sexualization of women that it somehow is unnatural and off-putting.
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Speaking as a dude, the easiest thing to do would probably just be to commission art from female artists. I can think of five off the top of my head and, stylistic preferences aside, the Victoria's-Secret-model-as-typical-female-body has never ever been a problem for them.
If you're trying to produce adventures that will appeal to female gamers, I'd design scenarios that feature role playing and non-combat encounters as significant to the gameplay rather than as something annoying to get out of the way before combat starts.
Mind you, I'm not sure male gamer tastes vs female gamer tastes is the most useful way to phrase the question; the instant I finished typing the previous paragraph I thought of all the male gamers I know who like RP and decently proportioned art. It seems to me that just about the worst thing you could do is advertise your product as female friendly and have it be so in typical ways. I not accusing LPJ of anything, but tokenism is very obvious to those being pandered to.
I also have to admit that I have little to no knowledge of the setting being discussed, so take everything I say with a grain of salt.
Blue Moon Rising is my favorite story involving a Prince trying to rescue a Princess from a Dragon and a good example of changing things up.
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I think all of us have agreed to this, I am wonder what on the actual role playing side do you think female gamer are more responsive to?
The same things that appeal to male gamers, really. Roleplaying a concept you find interesting; playing a new character type you haven't tried before; destroying foes with ease; supporting the group as a whole to succeed; exploring a new and interesting worlds.
If you're looking for the stereotypes, I've noticed that women are often concerned with supporting the group as a whole; even when creating a really optimized combat monkey it's often for the sake of being able to protect their allies. Also, nature-oriented classes or ones with animal companions do tend to get attention, particularly for newer players (which many women may be, not for lack of interest in the hobby but because of barriers to entry, as I noted I had). This is probably a holdover of what women are generally encouraged to focus on in real life. Also, let's be real, having a guard lion is pretty boss.
Making sure it's clear to all potential players (men and women both!) that these are viable options probably wouldn't be a terrible idea. That said, creating specific advertising campaigns specifically for women with those stereotypes overly represented would be pretty insulting. Life is tricky that way.
EDIT: Whoops, I accidentally a word.
What games have this problem exactly? I would like to find this game that has so little objectification and sexualization of women that it somehow is unnatural and off-putting.
None that I am aware of at this point, but then again I don't play much other than Pathfinder. My statement is not a matter of pointing out examples, but a warning that it can go both ways if the designers' focus is on the wrong aspect of the task.
If you want an example, though, I would point out the initial post in this thread. There is nothing wrong with having a primarily matriarchal setting. This becomes an issue, however, when the designers feel the need to point this fact out, to parade it around in order to demonstrate how they are working toward bettering the gender representations within their products. Gender should not be a primary consideration in these works: The focus should be on story, theme, and character; these works stop being about the setting, and instead becomes focused on gender specifics; the content and value of the works are lost, because they ceases to be the primary concern of the designers.
If you want an example, though, I would point out the initial post in this thread. There is nothing wrong with having a primarily matriarchal setting. This becomes an issue, however, when the designers feel the need to point this fact out, to parade it around in order to demonstrate how they are working toward bettering the gender representations within their products. Gender should not be a primary consideration in these works: The focus should be on story, theme, and character; these works stop being about the setting, and instead becomes focused on gender specifics; the content and value of the works are lost, because they ceases to be the primary concern of the designers.
I agree I don't want this to become, "Look we have [Enter any racial group / Sexual orientation], so we are cool!!!" discussion. But I am smart enough to know that since I am a prototypical Alpha male I might be missing out and in some cases offending certain people with out even realizing it. Being one of the few African American own RPG publisher, I never want to feel that I am excluding people from gaming. That said, very rarely if ever seen am dark skinned individual (male or female) dress in full plate armor fight a dragon. The reason for this is most likely simple oversight, but I would like to see it, even in my own products. I want MORE people playing no matter if they are male or female.
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None that I am aware of at this point, but then again I don't play much other than Pathfinder. My statement is not a matter of pointing out examples, but a warning that it can go both ways if the designers' focus is on the wrong aspect of the task.
In theory, maybe, in some farflung future. But in practice it's never happened so I wouldn't exactly worry about it.
If you want an example, though, I would point out the initial post in this thread. There is nothing wrong with having a primarily matriarchal setting. This becomes an issue, however, when the designers feel the need to point this fact out, to parade it around in order to demonstrate how they are working toward bettering the gender representations within their products. Gender should not be a primary consideration in these works: The focus should be on story, theme, and character; these works stop being about the setting, and instead becomes focused on gender specifics; the content and value of the works are lost, because they ceases to be the primary concern of the designers.
Women are regularly underrepresented in positions of power in fantasy settings. Having a majority of group and faction leaders be women certainly isn't enough on its own to sell me on any setting, but if it's a setting that already appeals to me for other reasons then yeah, it may influence my final decision to invest in the setting one way or another.
Yes, the most important thing is to have an interesting and compelling setting, but I figured I didn't really need to tell any designer that. But sometimes part of what makes a setting compelling to me is seeing women represented and filling a variety of roles. Sorry if that makes me superficial, dude.
And I say dude for a reason.
Oh, I wanted to say that I like the look of Niobe Mylona, one of the two main characters of the webcomic you're working on. She looks interesting and capable, cute and appealing without being objectified, and it's always refreshing to see a WoC. I think she could be a really good vehicle for drawing interest; there are a lot of women who love webcomics out there.
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But I am smart enough to know that since I am a prototypical Alpha male I might be missing out and in some cases offending certain people with out even realizing it. Being one of the few African American own RPG publisher, I never want to feel that I am excluding people from gaming. That said, very rarely if ever seen am dark skinned individual (male or female) dress in full plate armor fight a dragon. The reason for this is most likely simple oversight, but I would like to see it, even in my own products. I want MORE people playing no matter if they are male or female.
This is a noble endeavour and it's a wise man that can see his own blindspots.
From my own experience:
- I've never sat at a table where the female players characters were expected to behave differently from the male players characters,
- I know some women who love 'fantasy stripper' style art.
- All of the barbarians that my cavalier adventured with at PaizoCon UK were played by females and they were bloodthirsty.
Whenever we create a group of people A and try to address hot-button topic B with regards to them, it's always worth remembering that some people in A really don't see a problem with B and some people in not-A are surprisingly offended by B.
In other words, good luck and I hope that you neither over- nor under-season your awesome sauce.
Not all women look like a Victoria Secrets model. Some of us are broader shouldered, not curvaceous, wear are hair short, do not have large tracks of land, have fat pouty lips, etc. In other words we come in all shapes and sizes and appearances just like males do
This.
Look, I don't object to the occasional cheesecake female in fantasy. I just want to make sure there are more non-cheesecake women. I want to know that women have different roles, different attitudes, different jobs, different motivations. I want to know that a setting treats women as people.
Here's an example. Scroll down a bit. You'll see a sketch of an action scene for a dungeon. Not the first sketch, but the one in blue.
See that broad-shouldered, heavily muscled, reasonably-if-lightly armored figure with the huge sword? That's a woman. A woman in the first level of a dungeon. No cleavage, no high heels, no long flowing locks that would get you grabbed and dragged off in any real fight. She's a fantasy figure sure, look at the size of her sword! But given she's a Pathfinder character, if that's a "chain shirt" (a good choice for a 1st level high Dex fighter) she's got reasonable adventurer clothes covering areas her armor doesn't. And where there may be areas she should keep covered (it's a sketch, I'm not sure if here arms are bare or not) they are least focus on her powerful muscles, not her thighs flashing through a slit miniskirt.
That image tells me there's more than one kind of woman in that setting. That interests me more than anything about what classes women take. You could put a female fighter on there that would have me rolling my eyes You could put in Seloni, which is fine (she has magic), but if that's the only kind of woman I see, I assume the rest are just like her. But by showing me something that isn't a steroetype, they give me hope that women are people and characters, not just pin-ups. They buy the benefit of the doubt.
Covers and first impressions are important. If I scan your products, what impression do I get?
Here's a question: Do you think you will offend your customers by not having fantasy strippers on your covers?
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Yes, the most important thing is to have an interesting and compelling setting, but I figured I didn't really need to tell any designer that. But sometimes part of what makes a setting compelling to me is seeing women represented and filling a variety of roles. Sorry if that makes me superficial, dude.
I agree with this so much, and with what you said about the importance of starting out with a compelling setting with a clincher of seeing women portrayed in strong roles.
I think it's important for designers to consciously make sure their female characters are as complex, varied and powerful (in one way or another) as their male characters. That's really key for me.
To the OP, check out this column I recently came across -- it makes some really good points about how to ensure female characters are truly strong, and not just a one-dimensional or stereotypical version of the word.
http://fantasy-faction.com/2012/feminism
EDIT: Linked!
Another real quick consideration regarding attire: if you feel your newest art piece for an upcoming product may be off in this regard, imagine a simple gender-swap. Envision the same character, same pose, same equipment, but the opposite gender. If there is a problem with the art in question, the result of this exercise will usually look truly ridiculous.
The gender of the wearer is not the primary concern of an armor maker, the protection of the wearer is. Often it will be too late to replace an offending work before a product goes to print, but keep note of the problem anyway, point it out to the artist, and keep an eye out for it in the future. There are many similar, yet distinct, issues that arise in depictions of women in fantasy art. Like any other visual cue, they become easier to spot once you identify them for the first time. It's a talent you will have to develop over time, but it will prove worthwhile in the long run.
Women are regularly underrepresented in positions of power in fantasy settings. Having a majority of group and faction leaders be women certainly isn't enough on its own to sell me on any setting, but if it's a setting that already appeals to me for other reasons then yeah, it may influence my final decision to invest in the setting one way or another.
Yes, the most important thing is to have an interesting and compelling setting, but I figured I didn't really need to tell any designer that. But sometimes part of what makes a setting compelling to me is seeing women represented and filling a variety of roles. Sorry if that makes me superficial, dude.
Granted, but at the same time you have to be careful. As I said, there's nothing inherently wrong with a setting that features a selection of strong women in all possible roles. That alone is unlikely to cause any issue. Calling attention to it in order to illustrate some lack of gender bias, however, can.
The male ego can be an extremely fragile thing. The simple act by a publisher of shining a spotlight on a perceived gender bias in these products, or lack thereof if that is the case, is likely to push male customers away from the product. These customers may or may not have an opinion on the matter, but the idea that they might is going to make many of them uncomfortable. This in turn results in the same behavior most men demonstrate when faced with emotional turmoil: Ignore the cause. It may not be something that has occurred in this industry yet, but it has in others, and it is a real concern.
The male ego can be an extremely fragile thing. The simple act by a publisher of shining a spotlight on a perceived gender bias in these products, or lack thereof if that is the case, is likely to push male customers away from the product. These customers may or may not have an opinion on the matter, but the idea that they might is going to make many of them uncomfortable. This in turn results in the same behavior most men demonstrate when faced with emotional turmoil: Ignore the cause. It may not be something that has occurred in this industry yet, but it has in others, and it is a real concern.
On this we can agree. It's a sad fact that a privileged group rarely rejoices in being reminded of its advantages, whether it's men, white people, or whatever.
I wouldn't in general advertising go on about the prominence of women in the setting for that reason. In this thread I think it was a fair thing to do because Mr. Porter was addressing women who, presumably, would be pretty pleased to hear about the sheer number of women in leadership positions in the setting (and indeed I was!). But outside of this situation it would sadly be inviting defensive reactions.
The best thing is probably to implement whatever measures of equality you want to in a quiet fashion. The draw of more equal representation will do its job of bringing people in without calling attention to it, which could have unfortunate results from other groups. Except, of course, for situations similar to this one where people are specifically asking for or addressing products that make these efforts.
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Not from an art perspective, bur from a story perspective, I happen to think the story of the Deed of Paksenarrion is probably one of the best story lines of a woman in combat in a fantasy setting.
Book 1:Sheepfarmer's Daughter.
Book 2:Divided Allegiance.
Book 3:Oath of Gold.
Compilation:The Deed of Paksenarrion.
Here's a question: Do you think you will offend your customers by not having fantasy strippers on your covers?
Another good question might be; how effective is the fantasy stripper cover in generating sales?
I have passed over several products because the image looked less like a setting I want to game in and more like a strip club ad.
Oh, I wanted to say that I like the look of Niobe Mylona, one of the two main characters of the webcomic you're working on. She looks interesting and capable, cute and appealing without being objectified, and it's always refreshing to see a WoC. I think she could be a really good vehicle for drawing interest; there are a lot of women who love webcomics out there.
Thanks for the comment about Niobe.
From my own experience:
I've never sat at a table where the female players characters were expected to behave differently from the male players characters,
I know some women who love 'fantasy stripper' style art.
I do too, but if every girl in your setting looks like someone who just stepped of a porn set, there might be a bit of an issue.
All of the barbarians that my cavalier adventured with at PaizoCon UK were played by females and they were bloodthirsty.
I call those games kindred spirits.
In other words, good luck and I hope that you neither over- nor under-season your awesome sauce.
Like a good cook, I like to "taste" my awesome sauce often to make sure we are keeping it "seasoned" right.
Covers and first impressions are important. If I scan your products, what impression do I get?
I hope is that this looks like nothing you have ever seen before in other fantasy setting. I want to to see the cover and go, "OK what is this person's story?"
Here's a question: Do you think you will offend your customers by not having fantasy strippers on your covers?
Some I would guess yes. Other I would guess no. If the number are equal, then I am OK but if they are out of balance either way then I need to check what we are doing.
I think it's important for designers to consciously make sure their female characters are as complex, varied and powerful (in one way or another) as their male characters. That's really key for me.
That is one thing that we have covered in NeoExodus. Complex characters and complex allegiance is what NeoExodus is about.
Another real quick consideration regarding attire: if you feel your newest art piece for an upcoming product may be off in this regard, imagine a simple gender-swap. Envision the same character, same pose, same equipment, but the opposite gender. If there is a problem with the art in question, the result of this exercise will usually look truly ridiculous.
Good idea! Thanks!
Having looked through a lot of the stuff, I will give LPJr this....it's not restricted to the female characters.
Fair is fair.
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Another good question might be; how effective is the fantasy stripper cover in generating sales?
I have passed over several products because the image looked less like a setting I want to game in and more like a strip club ad.
They do say sex sells, but in the information age I find it hard to believe that heterosexual men are bereft of porn...
Just a quick word... I'm following this thread very closely with a very interested ear.
When I sit down to work on something, gender is not what I think about first. I'm worried about a few things
1- What is the NPC's role in *HERE*?
2- What is the NPC's motivation *HERE*?
3- Do I have another NPC that could fulfill 1 and 2?
4- What type of character would be good here?
With these I then make a guess about what character I would like to see.
I am currently working on the NeoExodus Players' Guide that includes gender roles by race (if you check out NeoExodus, our races are far out there, very different from "elves and dwarves"). Roles are very varied: some societies are egalitarians, others are VERY male-dominated, others are Highly Matriarchal, for an interesting mix overall.
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They do say sex sells, but in the information age I find it hard to believe that heterosexual men are bereft of porn...
I don't know if the use of sexy images on front covers is as much sex orientated as reproduction orientated. A male/female image with exaggerated reproductive attributes (large muscles and bulging codpiece/broad waist and large bust) grabs the eye by appealing to the base part of the brain that is constantly mate seeking. The result isn't as much about arousal as it is about attention grabbing - the essence of advertising.
What is required here is something that is still attention-grabbing that then doesn't repulse the higher levels of the brain of the viewer by breaching their social taboos or expectations. All while taking account of the fact that the brain may not be in the head of a white male aged 14-30.
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Having played NeoExodus and mainly the female characters, I can say without a doubt that most of them are not designed as strippers.
However, this is fantasy and I think the draw for most of the women I know who play is that we can pretend to be anything we want and we get to spend time with our friends. Personally, I've played every single class there is and I can make her, or him, whomever I imagine them to be.
The only issues I've ever had with game companies is the constant changing of rules and addition of material. One company in particular lost me completely as a player when they killed a system that worked very well in favor of one that was ungainly and catered to the 'roll' players rather than the 'role' players. And here, a couple of years later, they have killed that system and are attempting to design another.
As someone who has been DMing, playing, and doing some writing for the past 15 years, I prefer to stay with a company that's not constantly pulling the rug out from under me.
Here's an example. Scroll down a bit. You'll see a sketch of an action scene for a dungeon. Not the first sketch, but the one in blue.
The belt on her stomach and the angles of her both both above and below made me think of a barbie doll, in that "how does her lungs expand" kind of way. Different opinion.
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The best advice I can think of at the moment is...
Don't try too hard.
When writing up characters, write human beings, don't try to "write the ultimate iconic female." Yes, there can, very broadly speaking, be differences in how a man or woman might react to something, the trick there is broad. If you design a character to be organic and real, readers will be way more impressed than if you set a goal to make the "ultimate woman" which will undoubtedly end up with a kitchen sink full of skills and no real personality to speak of, and no one will be happy.
Provide good contexts for female (and male) characters. They shouldn't exist in strings of tragedy and always be rescued... that's a HUGE turnoff... but at the same time, if they're infallible heroes who never face real challenges, then that's boring too. Keep it real.
Artwork wise, the key is diversity. I don't mind some T&A (in fact I enjoy it!), but if EVERY woman is a skinny chick with big boobs in a string bikini and EVERY guy is and clothed head to toe, then that sets an obvious double standard. You don't need to dress every single female character in a muu muu, but you need to show a reasonable variety--part of the beauty of humanity is we all come in a great many sizes and shapes, and that should be celebrated and depicted as often as possible.
And back to writing, remember a diversity of backgrounds. Don't just write women, write mothers and midwives and soldiers and gang scoundrels and gamblers and geishas and bards and thieves and merchants.
Getting a little more specific, and yet still very broadly speaking, psychologically women like to find characters they relate to. Of course that isn't true of every single woman, and of course men like that too--but for example, and very badly paraphrasing a study I read far too long ago, if a woman is in a piece of art, a woman looking at that piece of art will equate herself with that woman. Characters women like tend to be characters that have qualities that not only reflect the qualities they see in themselves, but what they want to be....
But then, that's why we go back to point 1: write human beings, not caricatures, and not what you THINK a woman hero should be.
Drawing people to your setting is always a harder thing... I've spent years designing a homebrew campaign setting so on that alone I'm unlikely to want to look at other people's settings--it takes time away from my own work. So then the reason I may not look at your world has nothing to do with my being a woman and everything to do with the fact that my attention is drawn elsewhere. And in that it's just a matter of drawing a point to what makes your world unique, that might make me want to spend my time reading your material. If you have awesome leaders of your nations, find ways to advertise and highlight them. That most of them are strong females, all the more awesome to me, but just get the word out.
And when you hire female writers, make sure you throw their names and tout their successes as loudly as your male writers--I'm sure you already do, but just saying. If other women see that a woman writer is prominently featured in your work, they know you're willing to hire anyone with talent regardless of gender (something women still often have to worry about this day and age). Of course, don't throw your male writers under a bus to make the gals shine (you might lose good writers that way!), just make sure everyone gets high billing and credit.
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Speaking for my wife, a lack of healthy and caring relationships is a turn-off.
Consider the first few encounters of Rise of the Runelords. Sure, there are a mayor, sheriff, etc. who care about the townsfolk in a general way. But for real, caring relationships among family members or best friends we see only one example.
I am not advising being silly. No need to have a town map with a building description that reads: "Tannery: owned by Mr. Avorn and his wife, who love each other deeply and have been happily married for twenty years."
Rather, how about more quests to help people support friends and family, without a guaranteed tragic ending? (And not only the stereotypical rescue-and-bring-back plots. A gambler lost a lot of money and his spouse hires the PCs to prove the new gambling house is crooked. Diplomacy is needed to calm a feud that had nearly died out but is threatened to be rekindled. Searching is needed to find the herbs needed for an old favorite recipe for the town's aged and venerated retired priest's surprise birthday party. Two families are at war, holed up in fortified manor-estates, and the PCs are asked to deliver love letters across the battle lines. Etc.)
How about "set the scene" bits about caring relationships? For example, the PCs witness a sheriff and priest arguing in the marketplace about whether justice or mercy would most benefit a certain situation--and then the argument ends by the priest sighing, throwing up her arms, giving the sheriff a kiss, and saying, "Enough. We're getting nowhere. See you at dinner, honey."