paizo.com Recent Posts in So how crazy and complex does the game get at high levels?paizo.com Recent Posts in So how crazy and complex does the game get at high levels?2012-08-21T12:57:13Z2012-08-21T12:57:13ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: So how crazy and complex does the game get at high levels?The Human Diversionhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2opmc&page=2?So-how-crazy-and-complex-does-the-game-get-at#542012-08-24T18:10:33Z2012-08-24T18:10:33Z<p>IMHO the thing that bogs high levels down the most are:</p>
<p>1) Flying. It happens a lot more often at high levels
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2) Spells that completely change a battle (greater dispel, disjunction, high level summons)
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3) Things that mess with senses - invisibility, blur, blink, etherealness, blindsense, etc
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4) Adding up buffs.</p>
<p>A few of those can be dealt with pretty easily, some of them can take a bit of time to figure out.</p>IMHO the thing that bogs high levels down the most are:
1) Flying. It happens a lot more often at high levels
2) Spells that completely change a battle (greater dispel, disjunction, high level summons)
3) Things that mess with senses - invisibility, blur, blink, etherealness, blindsense, etc
4) Adding up buffs.
A few of those can be dealt with pretty easily, some of them can take a bit of time to figure out.The Human Diversion2012-08-24T18:10:33ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: So how crazy and complex does the game get at high levels?EATERoftheDEADhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2opmc&page=2?So-how-crazy-and-complex-does-the-game-get-at#532012-08-24T17:31:21Z2012-08-24T17:31:21Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">cibet44 wrote:</div><blockquote> I suggest you run a level 1-20 game as I suggest above before you judge high level 3.5/PF play one way or another. </blockquote><p>Word. The only way to tell really is to play it all the way through and see what you like best.cibet44 wrote:I suggest you run a level 1-20 game as I suggest above before you judge high level 3.5/PF play one way or another.
Word. The only way to tell really is to play it all the way through and see what you like best.EATERoftheDEAD2012-08-24T17:31:21ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: So how crazy and complex does the game get at high levels?cibet44https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2opmc&page=2?So-how-crazy-and-complex-does-the-game-get-at#522012-08-24T17:25:08Z2012-08-24T17:25:08Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">King Stag wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I am fairly new to the game and have played around with my group and on my own on some low level adventures. I notice as I look through the rule books and Bestiaries that at higher levels the # of attack rolls and the amount of dice for damage rolls can get pretty ridiculous. The spells and FEATS seem to be a lot more complex and time-consuming as well.</p>
<p>Does this bog the game down quite a bit? Waiting for one player to roll 4-5 attacks and then roll dozens of dice for that damage seems like it would make combat take forever. Honestly, it seems like the game gets a lot less fun at higher levels as the attacks, FEATS, and spells get fairly complex and complicated. </blockquote><p>If you cut WBL in half and only use core rules you have a fun, fast paced, complete game for levels 1-20.
<p>Move beyond this and you start to add varying levels of complexity with an inordinate amount of bookkeeping, ever more nebulous conflicting and/or confusing rules, niche filling options, and proportionally less fun at the table. That’s my experience anyway.</p>
<p>I suggest you run a level 1-20 game as I suggest above before you judge high level 3.5/PF play one way or another.</p>King Stag wrote:I am fairly new to the game and have played around with my group and on my own on some low level adventures. I notice as I look through the rule books and Bestiaries that at higher levels the # of attack rolls and the amount of dice for damage rolls can get pretty ridiculous. The spells and FEATS seem to be a lot more complex and time-consuming as well.
Does this bog the game down quite a bit? Waiting for one player to roll 4-5 attacks and then roll dozens of dice for that...cibet442012-08-24T17:25:08ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: So how crazy and complex does the game get at high levels?Chengar Qordathhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2opmc&page=2?So-how-crazy-and-complex-does-the-game-get-at#512012-08-24T17:23:19Z2012-08-24T17:23:19Z<p>I can definitely agree that most of it boils down to the players. In one 3.5 game we had three casters who never had any trouble getting their actions taken care of quickly even at high levels, while one fighter constantly bogged things down every turn because he needed five minutes to do the math and figure out if his attack hit (even when there weren't any complicated modifiers involved).</p>
<p>When it comes to buffs, I find that the best solution is to write them all down on a whiteboard, and then total it all up and write it down for everyone. It does make things a bit less complicated if it's just "add x to the attack roll, and y to your damage." That still leaves the buffer with some bookkeeping to do, but it at least lessens the burden on the rest of the party.</p>I can definitely agree that most of it boils down to the players. In one 3.5 game we had three casters who never had any trouble getting their actions taken care of quickly even at high levels, while one fighter constantly bogged things down every turn because he needed five minutes to do the math and figure out if his attack hit (even when there weren't any complicated modifiers involved).
When it comes to buffs, I find that the best solution is to write them all down on a whiteboard, and...Chengar Qordath2012-08-24T17:23:19Z