Fallout 4


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I've gotten a settlement defense messages long before I sprung the Concord crew, they're not dependant. (This most recent character helped out Greygarden before making contact with any factions.) What makes the difference is having settlements with residents. Set up base at the Red Rocket, and it's just you and the dog, no worries. You can roam the 'wealth with no messages. Move even one settler in, or build a worker bot, and it's only a matter of time.


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Has anyone seen the theory about Preston Garvey being the real mastermind behind all the raiders in Fallout 4? It's a spoof obviously, but it actually makes a small bit of sense: pretend that he is out for the good of the Commonwealth, send raiders to make him profit, and, when their usefulness runs out, send the General after them. Best of all, his dupe never knows any different, because who would suspect that the shining do-gooder who always rats out raiders is actually a criminal mastermind?


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As for working with the Nuka Raider crews, I had a surprising (and twisted) realisation with one character. Her crews' influence covered the entire Commonwealth. The settlements that weren't occupied were allied (through payment and persuasion). Patrols of her Raiders walked the roads and fought to keep threats away. It was the safest the Commonwealth had ever seemed. What the Minutemen had sought to accomplish but repeatedly failed to do, she had done. Clearly it was an autocratic set-up, but at least she was a benevolent dictator.

Having weeded out the rule despising and blood worshipping Disciples, the remaining Raiders might even be civilized over time into society as bulwarks of a new state. The hierarchy and loyalty ethos of the pack might eventually be tempered with discipline to form from them an elite defense team not unlike the marines. By learning that keeping people who provide them food safe means a steady supply of food, they could learn the value of reciprocity. The Operators are only a few steps away from being civilized as is. Once they learn that commerce provides more steady income than robbery, they'll begin to adapt to trade.

By following the example already established by Gage, a Dalai Lama/Panchen Lama style system can be established to preserve this positive growth. Basically, the Overboss chooses the Underboss when the old one dies (a title I picked for Gage), and the Underboss chooses the new Overboss when the current one dies. Each selects based on character, empathy, and intelligence, then passes on leadership principles and goals. Within a few generations the Commonwealth could be the cradle of a new society.


That... actually sounds pretty awesome, Scythia. This sounds like something I could incorporate into a Kingmaker game of some sort. It would definitely add a nice twist on the storyline and add more weight to the continuing the story other than "TRAITORS!".

Thanks for the amazing story idea!


Hannibull Rektor wrote:

That... actually sounds pretty awesome, Scythia. This sounds like something I could incorporate into a Kingmaker game of some sort. It would definitely add a nice twist on the storyline and add more weight to the continuing the story other than "TRAITORS!".

Thanks for the amazing story idea!

I'm glad my over-thinking can do someone some good. :)

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Quote:
(Scythia's awesome twisted raider society idea.)

It's the ultimate example of sacrificing liberty for security. The only problem is the guy who feigns the desired leadership qualities well enough to be next in line for the throne and who then abuses his power once he gets it.

Scythia wrote:
I've gotten a settlement defense messages long before I sprung the Concord crew, they're not dependant. (This most recent character helped out Greygarden before making contact with any factions.) What makes the difference is having settlements with residents. Set up base at the Red Rocket, and it's just you and the dog, no worries. You can roam the 'wealth with no messages. Move even one settler in, or build a worker bot, and it's only a matter of time.

I've weirdly never gotten settlement defense messages UNLESS I joined the Minutemen (joined, not just met them). I'll let you know if this changes on this playthrough.

Hannibull Rektor wrote:


Has anyone seen the theory about Preston Garvey being the real mastermind behind all the raiders in Fallout 4? It's a spoof obviously, but it actually makes a small bit of sense: pretend that he is out for the good of the Commonwealth, send raiders to make him profit, and, when their usefulness runs out, send the General after them. Best of all, his dupe never knows any different, because who would suspect that the shining do-gooder who always rats out raiders is actually a criminal mastermind?

Weirdly, it makes total sense to me. Preston obviously helped the guy who sold Quincy out to the Gunners, and was only keeping Mama Murphy safe because he felt he could benefit from her visions. He kept her supplied on dope so she never betrayed him. He'd fooled whatshisname (Elvis) into helping him because his tech skills were valuable, and the charming Marcy Long is obviously a willing accomplice to Preston's plans. The raiders who cornered them in Concord were probably a group who realized he was using them as patsies and wanted revenge.

It also explains why you find so many dead minutemen corpses out on missions... clearly Preston had sent them on suicide missions he knew they couldn't handle.

He sits there laughing, "Man, I just called her General to boost her ego, and now she does whatever I want her to do!"

Silver Crusade

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The in game reason the Raiders are going after them in Concord is explained in the Raider Boss's terminal in the Vega plant. He wants Mama Murphy, or more specifically, her powers.

Silver Crusade

Speaking of the Minitemen, I found out today that Sturges is a synth. If you console command his invincibility away, he drops a synth part when you kill him.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Without using console commands if you take that perk that lets you see resistances you can what creatures are synths due to the abnormally high Energy Resistance they have.

Stupid Synth Brahmin tryin to sneak up on me.


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So back in October last year I'd begun a Survival game. Turns out, I'm still plugging away at it!

My Chinese American lawyer is now the commander of a small paramilitary organisation. After rescuing a badly damaged robot, her quest to find her son was, wisely, abandoned, figuring anything like this wasteland would have destroyed him long ago.

Instead, she adopted a robot! Ada, her new daughter, is the love of her life, and she goes everywhere with her. After avenging the murder of her father, Ada was given the best of everything life could offer, which ended up being a full Sentry Bot body and gatling lasers.

My survivor now spends her time making the wasteland a better place. Her settlers are all equipped with scoped .44 magnums and full combat armor, meaning any raids typically end in a Dirty Harry special. You can wander across their trade routes and enjoy peace of mind that comes from the results of her own army of bravos in military greens.

Her current goal is the preservation of Greygarden. A monument to machine ingenuity and survival, she's spent considerable wealth turning it into an impregnable concrete fortress in order to preserve its original inhabitants. The only human allowed on site is herself.

She rarely emerges from her power armor these days, having mastered the art of its repairs. With her laser sniper rifle Old Faithful and her laser combat rifle Righteous Authority, she goes out in her X-01 power armor and dispenses justice for all machines.

So yeah, rather than pick a faction, I've decided my end-game is that I've made my own faction. Dei ex machina!


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It's true that succession is usually the end of benevolent dictatorships. Maybe Curie could be convinced to become the immortal raider queen? :P

Also, I'm glad to hear somebody else calls that guy Elvis.

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Rysky wrote:
The in game reason the Raiders are going after them in Concord is explained in the Raider Boss's terminal in the Vega plant. He wants Mama Murphy, or more specifically, her powers.

Which he clearly learned about by working prior with Preston (or from a fellow Raider who did). ;)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
DeathQuaker wrote:
Rysky wrote:
The in game reason the Raiders are going after them in Concord is explained in the Raider Boss's terminal in the Vega plant. He wants Mama Murphy, or more specifically, her powers.
Which he clearly learned about by working prior with Preston (or from a fellow Raider who did). ;)

XD


Never did give much thought to Preston and the 'wealth Raiders. To me he came off as someone that means well but isn't up to the duties of leader.

He could be a master manipulator but I bet he would have made plans after Quincy other than watch the Minuteman fall apart... and then live as a runaway. With those theoretical skills he probably could have dethroned Hancock and got himself setup pretty good with his 'oracle.'

Interesting theory but I'll keep my caps on incompetent.

When it comes to the dead minutemen in random places, I always figured it was random people still wearing there old minuteman uniforms.

Scythia wrote:
It's true that succession is usually the end of benevolent dictatorships. Maybe Curie could be convinced to become the immortal raider queen? :P

That sounds like a good candidate to me. Sure beats my "how can I transfer my consciousness into a Synth" idea I had when I played it all. Hunh... Hancock maybe?

Scythia wrote:
Also, I'm glad to hear somebody else calls that guy Elvis.

I had a hard time not calling him Elvis for a long time.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Wraithguard wrote:
Scythia wrote:
Also, I'm glad to hear somebody else calls that guy Elvis.
I had a hard time not calling him Elvis for a long time.

He makes me want to go play New Vegas instead, so I generally avoid talking to him too much...


Heard the news about the Creation Club thing; it sounds interesting. It sounds like it will provide a nice way for modders to make a few bucks and provide official support for a mod to work with the game.

Not sure how it will turn out though. I hope it turns out well and allows modders to get something for their hard work.

I haven't popped in the game in a bit but I'm curious; has the mod limit been messed with at all?


I'm leery of the Creators Club stuff, because it reminds me of prior attempts to monetise mods, which haven't been great. I've heard people express support because it will mean Bethesda will be able to act as a gatekeeper to insure quality, and I wonder what Bethesda they're thinking about. This Bethesda is legendary for bugs and glitches. I also don't have much confidence in financial aspects of the idea, given this is the company that tried to sell horse armour as a dlc, and began doing Sims style furniture packs.

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I actually liked the "Workshop" packs, which at $5 are notably cheaper than any $19.99 Sims "Stuff Pack" :) and added comparatively more gameplay elements as well (the cages and arena, the manufacturing, the traps, plus the vault one came with a whole new questline). They were great for people like me who love to fiddle far too much with the building tools, but didn't have to clog up the hard drives of people who weren't into that stuff.

That said, I agree largely with Scythia about the Creator's Club, especially as indeed their prior efforts to monetize mods have gone very, very badly (I recall a huge fiasco over paid mods with Skyrim), and it undermines the very community-support feel (not commercial feel) of the modding community. (And at that, it's obviously they're trying to displace the Nexus, which they frankly owe a massive amount of their success to.) It also feels more like they're willing to let players pay fans to do the work THEY should be doing (improving and patching the game). Bethesda does a lot of great stuff... and then they do a lot of s&$@ty stuff too. Which exactly is the reason to be concerned... you have no idea what you're going to get.


That was the sort of sentiment I thought I would read.

Scythia wrote:
this is the company that tried to sell horse armour as a dlc

I had completely forgotten about that back in Oblivion. Now that I think about it they put out a lot of garbage for Oblivion. Well, the different themed bases didn't do anything for me at least.

DQ wrote:
I actually liked the "Workshop" packs, which at $5 are notably cheaper than any $19.99 Sims "Stuff Pack" :)

I liked them as well. They had some interesting stuff in there. Now that I think about it my most used mods are all focused on settlement building. Let me think... Scrap Anything is used a lot, some mod that allows me to relocate objects into other objects, some different food/water/power objects, assigning power armor to settlers. I ended up enjoying that aspect of the game more than I thought I would.

DQ wrote:
regarding Nexus stuff

I haven't paid much attention to that site in a long time. I got some mods for Dragon Age a long while ago when I had a computer to play on. I took a look at it recently and I was blown away by all the cool stuff people have made for the game. If it wasn't for mods on their that were ported over to the Xbox One, I doubt I would have started playing the game again... heck I spent the better part of a day just fiddling with load order to get all the mods to play nicely.


I liked having extra build elements as well, and I got the season pass (slipped in at the beginning when it was 30). At the same time I can empathize with those I saw complaining at the number of furniture packs compared to story/setting content packs.

You do raise another good point. The existence of community sites like Nexus is another good reason that I'm not excited about the Creator Club. There's already a rich and community curated source for PC mods. I agree that this seems like a move to claim that space. That the community has operated so long without monetisation, providing free play extension and support for Bethesda games, makes this effort feel all the more like a cash grab.


Booted up Fallout 4 last night to see what has changed. I guess I deleted it from my hard drive so all the mods went away thought they are still in my library.

Time to re-evaluate what I was using compared to what I want to do.

Sadly the limit didn't get raised at all so any additions will have to be balanced against cuts.

If I recall correctly, I was rather content with what I had at the time. I think the only thing I wanted to add was a mod that allowed me to eliminate essential people after they are no longer essential.

I'll probably remove some of the more aggressive graphic mods; some of those caused things to freeze frequently I think.


I believe that the paid mods move may be a way to grandfather in popular mods that Sony has otherwise banned due to requiring external assets, such as vampire reskins and story mods.

I am not going to say that it is a completely altruistic move, because it clearly isn't.

But as a person with a recently perished desktop, I can definitely appreciate more mods coming to console, as a replacement computer would be in the ballpark of $3,000, something I just can't bring myself to fork over.

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Hannibull Rektor wrote:

I believe that the paid mods move may be a way to grandfather in popular mods that Sony has otherwise banned due to requiring external assets, such as vampire reskins and story mods.

I am not going to say that it is a completely altruistic move, because it clearly isn't.

Certainly there are legit reasons for doing it. I just know from past precedent there's a lot that can go wrong and am worried about it on that count -- as well as how it may affect the modding community. If excellent modders feel burned by it (rather than support it) that could have a negative effect in the long run.

I certainly HOPE it is successful and good for the community in the long run. I don't want to sound like one of those gamers who just complain about everything on principle.

(Like people, for example, who think three story based expansions, one hybrid story-building expansion, and one building based expansion is all told an inadequate story-to-building expansion pack ratio. Especially when say, the last game by the same company (Skyrim) had two story-based expansions and one story-building hybrid expansion total. And yes, Scythia I'm referencing what you said, and no, I don't have any empathy, let alone sympathy, for those who think the rather expansive expansion content for Fallout 4 wasn't enough, especially when it was largely more than what's been provided by Bethesda for their prior games. Fallout 3 also had 5 expansions and yes there was less crafting in them, but I understand some of them to be rather small--IIRC about two substantial expansions among the 5, which is ultimately about the same. If I'd ever seen a reasonably calm constructive analyses of the quality/quantity of the F4 paks, I might reconsider, but frankly I've only ever seen baseless complaint. Perhaps I've looked in the wrong places.)

Quote:


But as a person with a recently perished desktop, I can definitely appreciate more mods coming to console, as a replacement computer would be in the ballpark of $3,000, something I just can't bring myself to fork over.

Hannibull, while by all means play with the platform you enjoy most and can get the most out of, as a simple point of order: a brand new decent gaming machine--one far more than adequate to run Fallout 4--should run around $1,000-$1,500 at most, and that's including monitor and peripherals.

Heck, here's one that's way nicer than my current rig that starts at $859, including a free upgrade from 8 GB ram to 16 GB that would be far more than adequate to run Fallout 4 at highest settings, let alone run most games out today at at least decent if not high settings. You do need to add a monitor if you don't have one, and I think you need to swap out the case if you want to add an optical drive (but you can actually swap to a cheaper case, and a basic DVD drive is about $17 more). You can absolutely do better than that, but that's a decent computer for less than $1,000. (Heck, I don't have a lot of money to spare and my computer is fine for what it does, but it's almost tempting to order that.)

If you're the kind of person who needs the brand, brand, brand, newest latest and greatest, then yes, I guess you could put something together for $3,000 but even that would take some outright effort. I think the site I linked to listed their most expensive rig at around $2,600, and a decent monitor on top of that would cost $100-200, but that's probably far more than is really needed... especially if you're buying it to play a game from last year. A gaming laptop would easily run $3,000 but based on personal experience I find those aren't worth it--they are hard to upgrade and overheat too easily.

(Caveat: the site I am linking to as examples is currently having a sale, and these are sale prices.)

Further, if your current machine isn't completely dead, and you've got a decent motherboard and power supply on your existing machine, you can probably purchase more RAM and a new video card and whatever else needs replacing for a few hundred bucks. Likewise you could always buy a basic rig with a good mobo and power supply, and upgrade components later as you can afford it.

It sucks your computer died and if you can't afford a new one, I totally understand it. I just wanted to be sure you were aware that your cost expectations were a bit high, IMO.


My empathy stems more from the fact that I can relate to people appreciating different parts of the game experience. The settlement building mechanic was a big change, and not everybody enjoyed it. For those who play to explore and wander the waste, staying in one place for a long time building houses and water treatment facilities is the exact opposite of what they wanted from the game. I can understand why they would be disappointed to see resources devoted to supporting that.

As for dlc comparisons

Spoiler:
In 3 Zeta added an entire alien ship to explore (with new gear and allies), Anchorage gave an admittedly virtual pre-apocalypse wartime experience (although very linear), Broken Steel added locations to the Capital Wasteland and (somewhat controversially) changed the ending to allow continued play, the Pit was pretty small and short (relying on an annoying collection game to pad playtime), and... I forgot the name of the other one that added an entire island to explore (now that I think about it, that's kind of a running Bethesda theme what with Shivering Isles, Solstheim, and Far Harbor). Basically, in terms of dlc 3 had quantity, NV had quality, 4 doesn't have either.

Skyrim was about on par with the example set by Oblivion. Oblivion had strongholds, one in setting dlc Knights of the Nine, and one new zone dlc Shivering Isles. Not unlike Hearthstone, Dawnguard, and Dragonborn.


I think most of that is fair Scythia.

I'll provide my own take on it all; I have high standards for Bethesda though.

Oblivion DLC:

Strongholds - Superfluous clutter in my opinion. The game has quite a few nice high end houses available. I guess if you wanted something cool to run back to every now and then, this might be useful.

Knight of the Nine - Interesting DLC that added some more story to the Unfeathered, an impressive Ayleid wizard guy. Pretty short though.

Shivering Isles - It might be simple to call it just another zone, but this added in tons of side quests, a rather long main story, alchemy additions, and quite a bit of extra loot.

1 long, 1 short, 1 extra
1 high quality, other mediocre

Skyrim DLC:

Hearthstone = Mainly home building. Easy to build with a decent chunk of gold sitting around. Customizable, but not nearly to the level that Fallout 4 is.

Dawnguard = Vampires actually worth being, a rather interesting quest line with some fun unique items at the end... want to darken the sun, no problem. Fairly long DLC that explores some interesting locations.

Dragonborn = Long, lots of stuff to do. New crafting stuff and some fun perks to earn.

2 long, 1 extra.
both good quality

Fallout 3:

Zeta = A new zone, but for the most part it is a 'one and done' since you cannot back track. It is fairly short but if you really try to explore everything you can see some funny stuff. If you could explore stuff again after you cleared it out, I'd like this one more.

Point Lookout = A few interesting side quests, a decent length main quest, but it is a very empty DLC, at least as far as my guide outlined. Lots of sites to see, but other than the mutated people with shotguns, not much to see but get part of your brain back.

Broken Steel = Allowed for continued play after the end and a concrete conclusion against the Enclave in the area; depending on how you utilize the weapon at the end. A long DLC that allowed for some fun shenanigans and collection of power armor.

The Pitt = Short, scavenger quest added playtime but you could easily finish this in one sitting.

1 long, 2 mid, 1 short
2 of mediocre quality.

Fallout NV:

Honest Hearts = A lot to explore, a decent length main quest, and a very interesting locale.

Dead Money = Not very long but quite demanding.

Old World Blues = Lots to do and see, decent number of side quests and lots of odd loot.

Lonesome Road = A long slog that explores an interesting area but a bit of a railroad.

2 long, 2 mid
All of good quality.

Fallout 4:

Building Supplements = Nice for those that like it. They let you do some really funny things if you like.

Vault-Tec = Considered separate from the other build packs. You get a small quest, and the ability to build your own Vault. Very nice and likely to be much more ethical than anything Vault-Tec created.

Far Harbor = A decent size zone with some crazy monsters, a few more build-able zones, and lots of sites to see. The main quest also takes a bit of time to complete.

Automatron = Keeps it in the 'wealth, a decent length quest and gives you the ability to make robots.

Nuka-World = Long quest with the ability to completely re-do the dynamics of the Commonwealth. Lots of loot, extra stuff to see and explore.

2 long, lots of extras, and 2 short with potential to be very long.

A favorite of mine...

Morrowind:

Tribunal and Bloodmoon both added in lots of equipment, quests, and interesting and involved plots.

and a touching side note.

tangent on Fallout 4 building:

I remember reading in a Game Informer many months ago that the settlement aspect of Fallout 4 nearly got cut. A key member of the team that worked on it passed away during production when it wasn't completely done. With the amount of problems that arose during production it eventually made its way to the top of the "things to cut next" list. When it got there though, nothing else terrible happened and it was completed and shipped as we know it.

This story touched me rather deeply and I am all the more happy to build wild things in Fallout 4.


I enjoy the settlement building as well, but then again I'm also a fan of the Sims and I find needs/population management to be an entertaining diversion. In 3 I had the desire to clean up Big Town (given the role you take there in rescuing and teaching the residents to defend themselves) and make it into a successful and populated city, but it wasn't an option then.

Also, I did think Nuka World was the best dlc in 4, not only because the park was fun to explore, and the world and story building that went with was interesting, but also because it offers something lacking from both the base game and Far Harbor: a clear choice between good and evil. Sometimes I prefer to have the option to be the hero without a tonne of asterisks, or being a villain without dispute. Honestly, that's why I enjoyed the main story of 3 as much as I did.

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I'm not comparing New Vegas DLC because Bethesda didn't develop it (published it, yes, developed, no). Moreover Chris Avellone was lead designer on the DLC. Expecting Bethesda to produce something--let alone something story-based--compared to Chris Avellone-led Obsidian-produced material is like squeezing a potato and expecting orange juice to come out of it. (Likewise expecting Obsidian to produce the kind of games Bethesda does would be equally inappropriate.)

Bethesda has tremendous world-building skills and I think most of their recent DLCs have shown off their strengths tremendously. Far Harbor amazes me because, even if scaled-down, how recognizably it is Mt Desert Island. And the story was decent there, IMO. The world design in Nuka World is incredible (something I've all the more come to appreciate when trying to build Nuka World in Planet Coaster). (I however, disliked the black/white choice of support the Raiders or no; obviously that's an issue of preference. I DO like the option to be the hero but I still like a bit of nuance too--but nuance is not Bethesda's strong point).

Anyway, my point was given there were three and a half story based DLCs, no less than if not more than Skyrim and a lot of other Bethesda games, and the same number of DLCs as Fallout 3 (even if with more varied approaches to the gameplay aspects covered), I don't see them as producing "less" than they used to, even if the appeal varied widely (as they all do). People may or may not like them, but they didn't produce less than they used to and the DLC addresses, all together, varying styles of gameplay.

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Alright I'll stop being cranky about gamer opinions.

Finished first editing pass so played a bit this weekend.

More adventures of the Vault-Tec Employee Sole Survivor:

Babble:

After a game crash causing me to lose a decent chunk of progress, I went ahead and installed the mod that lets you toggle various aspects of survival mode so I can save more frequently. I still try to do it more sparingly than I otherwise would but this makes it much better. I also turned off the carrying capacity penalty and the fact that overencumbrance makes you take damage (which is stupid).

Still have been mostly wandering along the mid-west side of the map, between Abernathy and Red Rocket to Diamond City and environs.

Dealt with the Vault 81 mole rat situation and got Curie.
- Decided that my Vault-Tec employee was APPALLED at what had happened to the vault 81 scientists (who would have been her fellow colleagues), and sees whatever revolt that caused them to be sealed in as the fault of the vault 81 residents who refused to let science advance as it was supposed to. Ergo she chose to keep the cure not only out of survival desire, but also out of spite, to punish the Vault for not behaving properly. She's particularly furious that their selfishness has caused diseased mole rats to get loose AND the end-result cure to mostly degrade into uselessness and that therefore they deserve to suffer the consequences of their ancestors' actions. (Plus, according to her f&%~ed up logic, if they had let the experiments continue, by this point the generation of Vault Dwellers would have been totally disease immune and the boy wouldn't have gotten sick to begin with).
--- Of course the absolutely hideously written dialogue makes this hard to play out well. What is absolutely BIZARRE is how the dialogue from the doctor says, "Oh, you selfish person, you're keeping it to SELL it." What? No, I'm keeping it to cure myself. Why doesn't the dialogue acknowledge AT ALL that you yourself got sick? Neither the dialogue from the SS nor the doctor let's you discuss this aspect of the situation. Why don't they notice that you have also contracted the disease--they can still expect you to put the child's life before your own and be angry if you don't, but the dialogue in this section is very badly written and makes NO sense what you do. Still, the weirdly hostile dialogue (which is out of tone for the rest of how they tend to make the Sole Survivor sound) was at least appropriate given how furious I felt my character would be. In my mind, she of course takes blood samples and gives them to Curie for analysis so they can possible re-engineer more panacea later. (Which indeed, should be totally possible, given Curie knows how to make it and all you need is to recreate the compounds required.)
- Generally speaking continuing from above, I still think this is absolutely the worst-written section of Fallout 4 hands down. There are so many obvious questions that the dialogue never lets you ask (both about the quest and other things like about Priscilla's research), and the idea of "oh all the compounds are gone I can never ever ever ever make more" (what about the brilliant plant biology scientist who wants to save her adopted son's life anyway? Can't she and Curie collaborate to make more? You could use the one cure to save the boy and later synthesize the compound to give to the sole survivor and/or sell). It's heavily railroaded and VERY badly explained just to try to give the player a bizarre black/white choice out of nowhere. If this were a completely optional section of the game with no major results other than to get a free room in Vault 81 if you help them, at least you could avoid it. But if you want Curie and one of the Bobbleheads you HAVE to do this quest, and then, unless you avoided getting infected at all (possible, but very difficult) you either have to walk around with a permanent debuff (and having the constant debuff indicator at the bottom of the screen is really annoying even if you don't care about the HP penalty, especially when you're in survival mode) or... deal with stupid dialogue. Which really isn't much of a consequence for doing the wrong thing. Being denied a place to sleep is meaningless given you're so close to Diamond City and the Alley that you can use as a settlement.
- Also it makes no sense that the supposed "cure all" cured my mole rat disease but not the other diseases I had at the time. Some very lazy programming there.
- ON THE UPSIDE: I took a lot more notice of the area design of the last area of the hidden vault. It's really nicely done with a lot of cool details. Curie's shrine to the dead scientists is fascinating. (It's also interesting that apparently one of the bodies is missing.)
- Based on my roleplay, it was fun to have my character say, "Yep, I'm Vault Tec and I'm authorized to release you," and from her POV have it more or less be the truth.
- My PC is VERY excited to have Curie on board. I dismissed Piper before entering the mole rat area because my PC wouldn't want Piper to know she knew about the Vault (and so I could easily take Curie with me once I found her). She's delighted to have a Vault-Tec loyal (ish) robot on board, and one with considerable scientific knowledge to boot. Realizing she's probably not going to be able to find a working lab in a Vault yet, she's planning on building one at Red Rocket. Still don't know if I will let Curie change bodies.

Other stuff: I went ahead and helped Paladin Danse with the ArcJet quest. (After I blew myself up on the frag mines seeded around Cambridge around 1,000 times.) My SS decided it was worth checking out the Brotherhood but decided not to join them -- she was utterly BAFFLED by his insisting there were people in the pre-War era who were using science and technology for bad purposes -- didn't he understand sometimes sacrifices had to be made for SCIENCE? Interestingly, Piper likes it if you refuse the Brotherhood. Righteous Authority is very handy to have for my high-Int character, who seems to do very well with an energy weapon.

Got to relationship level 2 with Piper largely via picking locks. Probably if I kept her around I'd max it out pretty easily. Maybe since Curie's not keen on going into other Vaults, might pick her up again to go look for Nick in 114.

Not sure if I will move on to Vault 114 from here (which will trigger more main quest) or maybe deal with Automatron, which I've opened up. SS isn't very well equipped yet to fight robots, but it would be nice to be able to upgrade Curie. Alternately might see if I can clear the water plant to add Greygarden to my list of safe havens. Vault 95 is another goal, but not sure if I will just go there, or get Cait first and then go. I could also try to get down to the buildable vault, can't remember what level I should be to take it on.


Scythia wrote:
In 3 I had the desire to clean up Big Town (given the role you take there in rescuing and teaching the residents to defend themselves) and make it into a successful and populated city, but it wasn't an option then.

I desired the same as well, sadly it wasn't an option back then.

DQ wrote:
Moreover Chris Avellone was lead designer on the DLC. Expecting Bethesda to produce something--let alone something story-based--compared to Chris Avellone-led Obsidian-produced material is like squeezing a potato and expecting orange juice to come out of it.

That is an incredibly important distinction that people need to be aware of.

DQ wrote:
Alright I'll stop being cranky about gamer opinions.

I didn't read your posts that way and I certainly didn't intend for mine to sound that way. I've read my share of whiny entitled gamer rants and nothing I've read was like those. I can't remove my bias entirely but I can try to be objective at least. :)

DQ wrote:
...Vault 81 stuff...

This area was definitely in need of more options for dialogue. The people don't even care if you get sick... what wonderful people they are. Curie can't make more stuff... what chemicals vanished off the face of the earth that can NEVER be reproduced? *bangs head into desk*


Since you can't ever build something as comparatively basic as a refrigerator, freezer or A/C unit - well, as of when I last played - that Curie has somehow forgotten how to make her stuff is not too much of a shocker. ;)


The Mad Comrade wrote:
Since you can't ever build something as comparatively basic as a refrigerator, freezer or A/C unit - well, as of when I last played - that Curie has somehow forgotten how to make her stuff is not too much of a shocker. ;)

*chuckle*

Could have swore that there was some fridges in there to build, though they aren't functionally different than a box or a tiered shelf.

Tangent:

I bet if Survival mode took into account temperature like "Breath of the Wild" does then we would have seen some Heaters and AC units and other things like building camp fires.

That reminds me of a mod I saw my friend playing Skyrim with. You had a meter that tracked warmth.


IMHO Fallout 4 feels incomplete and unfinished. It feels like they should have spent another 3 to 6 months working out the bugs and reviewing the quests and other stuff. They also need a 5 year old child as an advisor, so they can realize when things are really dumb.

Having said that, I have sunk more than 600 hours into the game, so it must not be totally bad. Just not too well though out.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Wraithguard wrote:
]I didn't read your posts that way and I certainly didn't intend for mine to sound that way. I've read my share of whiny entitled gamer rants and nothing I've read was like those. I can't remove my bias entirely but I can try to be objective at least. :)

No one implied anything, and you were fine. I was more chastising myself for getting too negative. Before getting negative again. ;)

Quote:
This area was definitely in need of more options for dialogue. The people don't even care if you get sick... what wonderful people they are. Curie can't make more stuff... what chemicals vanished off the face of the earth that can NEVER be reproduced? *bangs head into desk*

Yeah, the fact that there's NO acknowledgement of you being sick is truly BIZARRE (it's also weird, come to think of it, that Curie doesn't notice, when she apparently runs routine scans of you to report on your radiation status). My guess is perhaps maybe the plot changed--perhaps the original story was that you were originally charged to obtain the cure for someone else to sell it to them. But then they didn't have time or whatever to set that up... but didn't change the dialogue. The doctor's sudden conclusion of "You're going to sell it, aren't you?" was so incongruous.

And the potential for unfinished stories leads to...

Sharoth wrote:

IMHO Fallout 4 feels incomplete and unfinished. It feels like they should have spent another 3 to 6 months working out the bugs and reviewing the quests and other stuff. They also need a 5 year old child as an advisor, so they can realize when things are really dumb.

Having said that, I have sunk more than 600 hours into the game, so it must not be totally bad. Just not too well though out.

I've nearly logged 600--it is a good game, at least in where Bethesda's talents shine. Bethesda is AMAZING for world build, both in terms of background (who are the people here, what do they do, what is located here and why, etc.) as well as actual area design. When Bethesda focuses on what they are good at, their world builds make it easy for the player to make up their own story (like I am doing with my Vault Tec scientist playthrough). They enable a great "story in your head" of all kinds, and the vastness and variety of their worlds make for great replayability as you're always seeing something new.

Bethesda's weaknesses are twofold: they are not strong or subtle storytellers outside of their background/worldbuild, and they frequently, repeatedly bite off far more than they can chew. They are moreover seemingly noticeably lacking in project management--they seem to start all game related projects at once and then fail to finish most of them, rather than prioritize and make sure crucial elements are completed first. So they have a dozen half-finished stories (which adds to their reputation of poor storytelling) instead of six completely finished ones.

It would work much better if Bethesda, say, wrote up all they wanted to do, then set it up in a priority list, and then picked, say the first four top priority items to work on and finish COMPLETELY, they could then pick lower priority items moving down the list, again picking a couple at a time to work on and finish completely before moving again to a lower priority item. I don't know why they DON'T do it that way; I've noticed Interplay has the same problem as demonstrated by a lot of weirdly half-finished stuff you see in Wasteland 2 and Torment. Notably, I am not a video game designer, so I can't speak well to how things are done, or have to be, but I can't imagine why things are not better organized and managed; my minimal efforts to make mods and stuff for various games taught me early on that I had to prioritize stuff and ditch things I didn't have time for, rather than do it half-assed. I can't think of a reason it would be any different on a professional level.

My understanding is even though they are considered a "AAA" studio, they only have about a staff of about 30--which is small for a video game production house. They seem unable to know how to prioritize and how to maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses, which suggests a serious problem at a managerial or administrative level.

The Mad Comrade wrote:
Since you can't ever build something as comparatively basic as a refrigerator, freezer or A/C unit - well, as of when I last played - that Curie has somehow forgotten how to make her stuff is not too much of a shocker. ;)

Well, you get Buddy, who is a walking refrigerator. :) I guess they only wanted you to be able to get ice-cold beverages from him. It is weird though. Especially as the very first location you start off in post opening sequence is a CRYO VAULT. You could surely salvage a lifetime's worth of refrigeration materials from there.

But at least for something like that, there's a mod for it. (this is not the only one, it's just one I pulled at random.) I guess you could mod vault 81 too, but that would probably require much more work.

As for not being able to make the compounds, I think Curie's just a little demented after being stuck in a Vault for 200 years. :) But I'm annoyed you couldn't work with Priscilla to synthesize more compounds.

Ah well.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Sharoth wrote:

IMHO Fallout 4 feels incomplete and unfinished. It feels like they should have spent another 3 to 6 months working out the bugs and reviewing the quests and other stuff. They also need a 5 year old child as an advisor, so they can realize when things are really dumb.

Having said that, I have sunk more than 600 hours into the game, so it must not be totally bad. Just not too well though out.

So you are saying they need to conform to the The Evil Overlord List ?

Dark Archive

Yes. Yes they do.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

So taking on Medford Hospital on Survival with mainly an Int build... not a great plan.

Backing up: Took over Hangman's Alley for a free safe place to sleep in the Boston area. While cleaning it up, accidentally "unlocked" my concrete shipment I'd purchased earlier, so later had to drag 150 units of concrete back to Red Rocket. I'm glad I shut off the thing that has you take damage when encumbered during Survival.

Did make it back to Red Rocket, finished most of the fortifications I wanted to build, and built a laboratory (obviously you need a lab if you're going to be experimenting on your settlers).

We were attacked by a super mutant. It was readily handled by the settlers, Dogmeat, and Curie before I could even really engage. But Dr. Survivor (not her real name, though it should be) felt the baleful glances of the settlers: they'd WARNED her of a super mutant nest to the east that might try to attack them, and she'd not yet done anything about it.

(This is where I note: I still have not gotten any "settlement is under attack!" messages while traveling. But settlers WILL give you quests like "clear out the mutants here" or "secure X settlement there," and settlements can be attacked while you visit them. I still think you only get the attack warnings while traveling if you're with the Minutemen.)

Dr. Survivor realized the super mutants were an actual threat to her lab and her free adhesive-farming slaves, and so she reluctantly headed toward Medford. ((I realize of course that it doesn't matter if you clear out any given area, you'll still be attacked, but this was the in-game rationale.)) Besides, she knew there should be a vault in that area as well.

Medford was HARD. The @#$%^&*(! suicider in the front lobby was especially obnoxious to deal with, and I needed a Stealth Boy, luck, and several tries to safely blow him up well away from me. Still, with some persistence and a combat shotgun I eventually cleared it out and got a new syringer for my trouble. I've never used the syringer much, but I'm hoping to with this build.

I then moved onto Vault 75. Maybe HERE is where Vault Tec was waiting to give her orders. But nope, bunch of Gunners.

Gunners are ALSO hard on Survival. The mooks are pretty easy to take down but I think I'm finding the commanders and legendaries as hard as, if not harder, than many of the super mutants. There was a "skull" difficulty commander in the combat range. I had to take him out from a distance with a mix of grenades, sniper rifle, and somehow Curie's lasers are remarkably efficient from a distance.

(Though grenades are a dicey prospect on Survival. They NEVER really devised a good throwing mechanic, and half the time I get them to bounce back on me and I blow myself up, which is a guaranteed death on this level.)

I've not explored 75 as thoroughly as I'd like. I am trying to finish the Vault 75 quest though before I leave. The commander in the overseer's office is making this difficult. I'm half of a mind to just leave without finishing but I'm going to see if I can sneak up on him. Maybe this is a good chance to give the syringer a try--I don't have a lot of ammo for it yet, but what I do have I could reduce his DR and make him bleed out.

Curie gets easily damaged, it seems, and with Automatron, you do need actual Robot Repair kits, not stimpaks, to fix her up. On one hand, this means I get to keep my stimpaks for myself. On the other hand, it means if I run out of Robot Repair Kits and I can't fix her up, she'll go all the frickin' way back to Vault 81. I think I may do Automatron next so I can build Curie a more battle-efficient body. I could also just let her get a synth body, but I'm kind of starting to lean toward doing something messed up like give her a robobrain head and assaultron body and tell her that's as human a body she's getting (not of course that you can actually tell her that sort of thing, but still).


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Putting Codsworth into a bona-fide combat chassis with a robo-brain head is hilarious.


The Mad Comrade wrote:
Putting Codsworth into a bona-fide combat chassis with a robo-brain head is hilarious.

*snerk* Will he still wear the bowler hat?

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Sadly, no. If you modify Codsworth or Curie--I think even to give them upgraded Mr. Handy bodies--they lose the ability to wear the bowlers.

I have Curie in a bowler right now, it's quite cute. I think I made synth-Curie wear a bowler in honor of her Handy origins as well once.


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DeathQuaker wrote:

Sadly, no. If you modify Codsworth or Curie--I think even to give them upgraded Mr. Handy bodies--they lose the ability to wear the bowlers.

I have Curie in a bowler right now, it's quite cute. I think I made synth-Curie wear a bowler in honor of her Handy origins as well once.

I'll be honest, I find this more disappointing than it really merits. :)

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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quibblemuch wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:

Sadly, no. If you modify Codsworth or Curie--I think even to give them upgraded Mr. Handy bodies--they lose the ability to wear the bowlers.

I have Curie in a bowler right now, it's quite cute. I think I made synth-Curie wear a bowler in honor of her Handy origins as well once.

I'll be honest, I find this more disappointing than it really merits. :)

I'm right there with you. In my prior game I never modded Codsworth for this reason, the hat was way more important. :)

PS: Google "Sexy Codsworth" if you're bored.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
DeathQuaker wrote:
quibblemuch wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:

Sadly, no. If you modify Codsworth or Curie--I think even to give them upgraded Mr. Handy bodies--they lose the ability to wear the bowlers.

I have Curie in a bowler right now, it's quite cute. I think I made synth-Curie wear a bowler in honor of her Handy origins as well once.

I'll be honest, I find this more disappointing than it really merits. :)

I'm right there with you. In my prior game I never modded Codsworth for this reason, the hat was way more important. :)

PS: Google "Sexy Codsworth" if you're bored.

I wasn't bored but, curse you all the same :3


Perhaps the settlement defense message flagging is different on the PC than on the PS4 (which I play on).

Speaking of disappointment, there are several handy arm attachments that are coded into the game, but not usable with the robot work bench.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Scythia wrote:
Perhaps the settlement defense message flagging is different on the PC than on the PS4 (which I play on).

Could be.

Quote:


Speaking of disappointment, there are several handy arm attachments that are coded into the game, but not usable with the robot work bench.

Yeah, I remember thinking the Handy options were oddly lacking.


DeathQuaker wrote:


Scythia wrote:


Speaking of disappointment, there are several handy arm attachments that are coded into the game, but not usable with the robot work bench.
Yeah, I remember thinking the Handy options were oddly lacking.

One of the mods I can actually use on PS4 basically gives me access to chests with all the items coded into the game. There are handy plasma arms, and Nuka sprayer arms (ala Mr. Frothy), among others, but they aren't classed as components for the workbench.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

DeathQuaker wrote:
Scythia wrote:
Perhaps the settlement defense message flagging is different on the PC than on the PS4 (which I play on).
Could be.

AH, no, I was wrong after all. I did finally get an "Oberland Station is under attack!" message--first one in this playthrough. I'm at level 21.

Maybe they're just more frequent under the Minutemen? In the playthrough prior to this one, I didn't release the Minutemen until quite late--basically using the Minutemen quests as a mostly post-main quest activity. I remember not getting, or hardly getting, any alerts before then, but they came with alarming frequency afterward (and generally at the worst possible time, like I think Sanctuary alone got attacked three times while I was wandering Far Harbor).

I wonder if Defense score is a factor. Oberland Station's defense had been pretty abysmal--earlier on I had only set up a guard post. I went down to it to respond as part of setting up supply lines, so was able to properly kit it out with some defense. I don't know why, but I like those two nameless ladies that run Oberland. I call them Sally and Bathsheba.

I got both the Vault Tec Calling quests and the Automatron quest. My character hopped in her Power Armor and headed the long, long way down south... very, very carefully. Ran across the caravan first for Automatron and started that... and did the first dungeon for it, but DANG are those robots NASTY on Survival. I decided I would pick up the quest later. While I was south, though I did head further down to meet the Atom Cats and do their quest--I needed an arm for my power armor anyway. Did a lot of work to evade the centers of combat in those areas... a lot of nasty tough folks down there. TRIED to take on the super mutants at AtomaToys but with something like two skull-class mutants and at least one legendary and an associated spectacular death, decided that would have to wait.

Dropped Ada off at home and re-picked up a newly modified and a little more combat-ready Curie to head back south to Vault 88--going by way of Oberland to help them out first. The raiders there, though tough, were more manageable than robots, super mutants, and Gunners.

I generally have done right through most of my playthroughs with companions, and while they can do irritating things like walk in front of you right as you're about to shoot something, generally I have done well to have them with me. But I have had a particular problem with both Ada and Curie wandering off to fight things I have no intention of fighting.

In one particularly glorious(ly awful) example, as I was headed to Vault 88, I passed a factory occupied by the Gunners. Their symbols were painted all along the outside so I could see they were there, and I was careful to move quickly, quietly far far away as soon as possible. But Curie--all the while bemoaning about why we cannot talk but have to fight instead--decides to move TOWARD the Gunner she spots--and proceeds to attract the attention of a Gunner on a rooftop with a f@~#ing MISSILE LAUNCHER, who proceeds to shoot the legs off my power armor. Just as I think we still can get away, a huge horde of Rust Devils and their pet robots appear, and while they are also fighting the Gunners, they are fighting me TOO. I'm trying to run and hide behind cover and just hope they kill each other. But in the meantime of course Curie's just decided to fight this one-robot battle and of course was promptly destroyed by the missile launcher. If I had any sense, I would have abandoned her and gone to the Vault alone, but no, I've worked so hard, so I try to run in and rescue her, then nearly get killed by the missile launcher, then surrounded by Rust Devils and die. BLERG. On reload tried to move WELL AWAY from the factory though I STILL struggled to keep Curie following me and she did try to engage the Gunners, but I kept moving and I was far enough off course that she did eventually disengage and follow before she got blown up. REALLY ANNOYING though. I know Bethesda didn't want to copy Obsidian, but why the F*~~ they didn't use the same or similar very excellent companion AI system from New Vegas I don't know--you know, the one where you can tell them specifically both how far to follow and whether to engage or not (I think one of the commends is "don't attack something unless I attack first" which would specifically solve the problem quite well). I expect someone's made a mod for it and I may well look it up.

Anyway Dr. Survivor is now safely inside Vault 88. She's puzzled as to why Val doesn't recognize her as a Vault Tec staff but obviously she's a little confused, and Dr. Survivor is DELIGHTED to be recruited to help finish the vault and run experiments. I am delighted to be somewhere where I can level for a bit building things, safe underground (yeah I know I need to clear out the extra areas eventually and those have some nasty monsters but one thing at a time).


Glad to have external confirmation on the defense messages. I have not yet taken leave of my senses. :P

As to defence value, from what I've gained (by listening to people who examine the game code) no amount of Defense rating can reduce the chance of an attack to less than 2%. Additionally, fast travel to a settlement is a poor idea, because the attackers are able to move freely during the travel time. This means they can get past walls and perimeter defenses.

I too miss improved companion AI options. Even 3 allowed you to tell them to hang back or stay close. Not wanting them to block my way or attract unwanted attention has meant I largely avoid using companions unless I really want extra carry capacity. Even then, I much prefer the benefits of the Lone Wanderer perk (as well as its paltry 3 Charisma requirement, compared to 8 for the companion buff perk).

Ada is a particular trouble maker in that regard, especially when fitted with a sentry or robobrain head. Coupled with the random spawn chances, that does sound like a difficult spot to get into.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

With the exception of the robots--and it could be the improved senses of the robots, as you say, I didn't even think of that--I personally find the companions worth the trouble. It sounds stupid, but I don't like wandering by myself and having their occasional commentary on things makes it feel less lonely and more interesting. Deacon and Piper particularly have good and reasonably varied barks that make for good company to the extent an AI can provide.

Moreover combat wise, for every time someone's run into my shot, three times a companion has soaked damage for me and/or drawn fire so I can get in and kill something more efficiently. They CAN be used tactically, and companions have saved my life on a number of occasions. You can even manipulate their tendency to run into trouble... let them run in while you stand back and snipe enemies from a distance.

The problem is when they have lagged far behind you, then run into something they obviously can't handle and get killed, which only majorly happens with the robots. I should just heartlessly let them linger in a near-death state till they wander back to the nearest settlement--but then they've got all the stuff I've burdened them down with and I need that stuff. (Will risk life for aluminum.) Well, I won't be using Curie or Ada forever, and the human-ish companions seem to do this less. I eventually plan to side with the Institute and I've never worked much with X6-88 so that'll be a chance to see how he operates.

Although as an aside, what is it companions have against radstags? Unless I'm desperate for grilled radstag, I'm content to leave them alone, and they will also avoid you unless you attack them. Companions are like ALL ANTLERED THINGS MUST DIE NOW tho.

Curie's less interesting than I remember her to be from the first time I used her. She has pretty minimal barks--says a lot of the same stuff over again--although some of her location reactions are really funny.


The sentry and robobrain heads have longer detection ranges as I recall, especially the robo-brains (which is why I usually prefer them).

For take-along tin cans, I'd swap that noggin out for something less perceptive. ;)

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

In my game, Curie and Ada both just have Assaultron heads but that still seems "sensitive" enough to run into full view of a Gunner Commander wielding a missile launcher. :/

Weirdly I'd think Mr. Handys with their three eyes would be the MOST perceptive...

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