A doozy...


Advice

Silver Crusade

Ok, long time DM here, but relatively new to Golarion.

I am currently running a campaign for a number of friends, which I originally began by ad-libbing, but now that I'm a bit more familiar with the setting, I've begun tightening up the story some, and established better villains, and by extension, better villainous plots.

But, there are a few difficulties I set for myself fairly early on, and some ways I have of getting around them.

In short, what I suppose I need to know is a number of things;

How to roleplay a conversation with Nethys. (Not a follower of Nethys, the god himself.) I know a bit about him, the equally nihilistic and bleeding heart dichotomy he has, but I'm not sure how to use it. I need to know since at some point, depending on what they do, my players may have to speak to the god himself about a little creation he cooked up way back when he was a mortal Osirian god-king.

What IS known about the Decemvirate? I know their numbers, and I know about the Decemvirate helmets, but does anyone know anything about their identities? About how they are elected? If they're even elected? Their ultimate motivations? I have a villain who plans on infiltrating the Decemvirate, becoming a member, and then usurping power for himself, hiding the deaths of the others as part of a secret coup.

What's in the Sarkorian prophecies? Have any specifics been given?

Are there any specifics known about the Temple of the Starstone? The Shrine of the Failed?

Please and thank you in advance.


-Nethys would be a lot of fun to GM in the narrative!
Visually, he appears as a frightening male human emanating with great energy. One side of him is youthful and dominating, almost glowing with power, while his other half is charred and crackling with leaking magics.

If you enjoy doing voices you should have two very different and distinct ones for the players to interact with- perhaps one that is low and ominous and the other stronger and more confident, both bolstered with the assurance of power. His advice would most likely focus around a reliance on magic to accomplish their tasks and since he is torn and a bit insane he would be abstract and mysterious most of the time. You could even have his two sides disagree with one another or give different forms of the same advice.

-The Decemvirate rules the Pathfinder society and their identities is a very closely kept secret, but it is known that 10 veteran pathfinders rule it. It is even rumored that these members have found methods to slow their aging or have been granted immortality and that their true selves are hidden even to the Gods of Golarion. Most of the time the ambitions and intentions of the Decemvirate are not known, but disobeying their will leads to expulsion from the society or worse. A villain who managed to pull off what you have planned would most likely be a major one and his goals lofty indeed!

-I don't know much about the Sarkorian Prophecies other than their is a scenario based around it.

-The Starstone Cathedral is basically the holiest place in all Golarion as it is the place where Aroden drew the Starstone from the sea and placed it there. There are 4 bridges that lead to it, representing the 4 individuals who were granted divinity from it, through Aroden's bridge collapsed. The few who have returned from it without shiny new God powers speak of a realm of impossibilities where magic does not function properly and a gauntlet of guardians wait to defend its halls.


I don't know squat about nethys, or most of golarion, so lemme check the wiki

wiki sez wrote:
Nethys (pronounced NETH-uhs)[1] is a god who holds magic above all things. He gained enough power to witness all things, and this both fueled his divinity and shattered his mind. He is a god of magic torn between destroying the world with one hand and saving it with the other

Okay, you ever play Oblivion, Skyrim, or the other Elder Scrolls games? You know Sheogorath, daedric lord of madness, mania, and dementia? He's a 10, you'll probably want about a 8-9.5 on the crazy and capricious with a bit of creation and destruction, often making things or smashing them to punctuate statements.

Decemvirates are eternal, whether that means "replaced by obscure means and politics known only to the extreme upper echelons" or "immortal" or "actually gods, no really" is only relevant if it ties into your campaign plot, in which case it's your decision. But they don't get replaced by NORMAL means, that's for sure.

And the rest is stuff I don't own and the wiki is vague about.

edit: Wabbajack Wabbajack Wabbajack Wabbajack Wabbajack


ArianDynas wrote:
How to roleplay a conversation with Nethys. (Not a follower of Nethys, the god himself.) I know a bit about him, the equally nihilistic and bleeding heart dichotomy he has, but I'm not sure how to use it. I need to know since at some point, depending on what they do, my players may have to speak to the god himself about a little creation he cooked up way back when he was a mortal Osirian god-king.

The gods of Golarion don't speak to their worshipers directly. Ever. We don't know the details of Aroden's death, but the other gods seem to have some idea, and it's made them all paranoid. I would recommend the communication be with one of his favored servants or even his herald. Any message from Nethys, however, is likely to be conflicting and insane. The very same experiences that elevated him to divinity also drove him mad.

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What IS known about the Decemvirate? I know their numbers, and I know about the Decemvirate helmets, but does anyone know anything about their identities? About how they are elected? If they're even elected? Their ultimate motivations? I have a villain who plans on infiltrating the Decemvirate, becoming a member, and then usurping power for himself, hiding the deaths of the others as part of a secret coup.

Not much is known at all. Their identities are unknown, some say even hidden from the gods. Their motivations are their own and unspoken. Their method of selecting new members is also unknown, possibly because such a method does not exist; some believe the Decemvirate are immortal.

Decemvirate on PathfinderWiki

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What's in the Sarkorian prophecies? Have any specifics been given?

I've no clue, unfortunately.

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Are there any specifics known about the Temple of the Starstone? The Shrine of the Failed?

Specific details of the Starstone Cathedral have never been provided, and never will. To enter is to seek divinity, which is well beyond the scope of the game, and most cannot even enter. It has even been indicated that the Temple may change based on the nature of the one taking the Test of the Starstone, meaning that it would be different for every player character.


I've had the Golarion Gods interact with players on several occasions and it has played out well. They are simply too interesting not to have a hand in bigger adventures.

In fact, in my "Skull and Shackles" campaign (altered), Besmora is working through the party to put her own plans into motion. Because she is the Pirate Queen, her eyes are set on a higher prize and her plan is to take over the Sea domain from Gozreh and bestow her old domain of piracy on her cleric in the group. She has spoken to them a few times in dreams and her voice has been heard on the sea breeze with their next destination. The heroes will poise her to claim what she wants and they will become legends in the process!


you might want to try this thread here.. The pathfinder creative directer would love to answer that first question i would imagine, he's away at gen con but next week I'm betting you'd get his thoughts on at least nethys


What is square and blue?

An Orange in disguise!

Random thoughts making little to no sense, self fulfilling, self obvious, unsolvable, but somehow linked and common sensicle once revealed is how I think you should speak to the character(s). I would imagine that the best route for character success would be to appeal to one side of Nethys or the other. I am not sure a non-divine mind could hope to have a talk to both his halves and maintain their own sanity.

Silver Crusade

Hmm, two voices probably would be a good idea.

And I should have mentioned, I already did my research, trying to find as much as I could on the wiki, but turning up... less than I was satisfied with. :D

Not entirely sure on how to do the abstract and mysterious bit, but I do have the magic down in spades. Right now the group has an artifact, a book of ultimate knowledge Nethys made and penned before his apotheosis, and since they lost said book in this scenario, they have to find the "source". Basically the backstory for the thing being that Nethys, as a mortal man, known for his planetrotting, had visited the final library of Vecna (yes, that Vecna. What? I run Golarion in the same Prime Material Plane as the rest of the classic D&D settings, it deserves that honor alot more than 4th Ed does.) and had studied in his library in exchange for a number of boons and magical spells. Afterward, Nethys returned home and penned the knowledge he had gained in one of his spellbooks, then cast his spell, which he had been researching in the Final Library and boom, saw everything in all the planes at once and went mad, then became a god. Crazy, well, crazy, as you can see I am quite good at. In fact, CHEESE FOR EVERYONE! Wait. No, cheese for no one. Which can be just as much a celebration if you don't like cheese, true? ;)

Basically, his solution is sending them to visit the Shadowed Room, the pale imitation of the Final Library that Vecna found he could visit in the memory of the planes (since the Final Library's knowledge had been so extensive and vast that it imprinted a memory of itself on the very fabric of the planes, which Vecna discovered he could access through a portal.)

A split personality, giving different advice hmm? Liking that thought, kinda, though I wonder how the nihilistic side would feel about Rovagug getting loose and tearing s**t up, since that is one of the consequences if things go really bad by that point.

Basically what my villain is planning is, he, a senior pathfinder himself, is making use of the remaining ill will, and forming a kind of "Shadow Lodge Resurgent" as a smokescreen to his real plans, and since he is the one in charge as acknowledged by ALL the SLR cells, he's able to co-ordinate them better for his planned coup. But in reality, this guy is actually the chosen agent of a blue dragon, whom is acting as his patron to manipulate the resources of the society for himself to achieve godhood (yeah, it's a really convoluted campaign. >.>) and the villain replacing the Decemvirate then gets to rule as a god-king over all that is left of humanity when his draconic overlord slays Dahak and conquers the world.

Currently what I am THINKING of for how the Decemvirate works, a number of senior pathfinders from each major lodge at the time are gathered together, their identities, secret, and determine the way the society should be run, with certain incumbents choosing to retire at times of their choosing(one could serve for 4 days, or twenty years), nominating successors they feel are suited to the task, returning to the ranks of mere, ordinary pathfinders, while their successor steps in and assumes their persona, so that from the outside, it always seems as though it is the same 10, inscrutable members, explaining why their motivations and temperaments seem to fluctuate.

Magic does not function properly eh? So, like wild magic then? Interesting. Lots of nasty guardians, well that's a given I would suppose.

In all honesty, I guess what I am really asking is "what toes am I stepping on?"


Well, the beauty of GMing is the only toes of concern are your own. Paizo has built a wonderful playground of fantasy, but in the end it is your game so build a foundation on the lore you know and run with it!

I think in many ways certain elements of the setting is left vague and open ended so you can do that very thing. Just 30 mins with the Inner Sea Guide had my mind whirring in all sorts of directions on the snippets of information began but never finished. There is a great drive to "fill in the gaps" with your own ideas and imagination.

I like many of your ideas and your players are lucky to have such an in depth plot to unravel. I wish you all the best!

Silver Crusade

Heaven's Agent wrote:
ArianDynas wrote:
How to roleplay a conversation with Nethys. (Not a follower of Nethys, the god himself.) I know a bit about him, the equally nihilistic and bleeding heart dichotomy he has, but I'm not sure how to use it. I need to know since at some point, depending on what they do, my players may have to speak to the god himself about a little creation he cooked up way back when he was a mortal Osirian god-king.

The gods of Golarion don't speak to their worshipers directly. Ever. We don't know the details of Aroden's death, but the other gods seem to have some idea, and it's made them all paranoid. I would recommend the communication be with one of his favored servants or even his herald. Any message from Nethys, however, is likely to be conflicting and insane. The very same experiences that elevated him to divinity also drove him mad.

As I understand it, from what I have heard anyway, was that Asmodeus murdered Aroden. When you say herald, I assume you're referring to his avatar?

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Quote:
What IS known about the Decemvirate? I know their numbers, and I know about the Decemvirate helmets, but does anyone know anything about their identities? About how they are elected? If they're even elected? Their ultimate motivations? I have a villain who plans on infiltrating the Decemvirate, becoming a member, and then usurping power for himself, hiding the deaths of the others as part of a secret coup.

Not much is known at all. Their identities are unknown, some say even hidden from the gods. Their motivations are their own and unspoken. Their method of selecting new members is also unknown, possibly because such a method does not exist; some believe the Decemvirate are immortal.

Decemvirate on PathfinderWiki

Yeah, unfortunately it was not as helpful as I would hope. :(

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What's in the Sarkorian prophecies? Have any specifics been given?
I've no clue, unfortunately.

On the plus side at least I get to inject my own BS.

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Are there any specifics known about the Temple of the Starstone? The Shrine of the Failed?
Specific details of the Starstone Cathedral have never been provided, and never will. To enter is to seek divinity, which is well beyond the scope of the game...

Welp, not my game at least, taboo as it may be, but my campaign is featuring the rising of a new god, and one of the PCs may just be him.


there is a pretty extensive article about Nethys in the back of AP#41: the thousand fangs below. Included is his answers to communes: give accurate information but the tone may be amused, belligerent, cold, disappointed, enraged, and so on. He isn't the classical insane, just mood-swingy. The article is 5 pages.

Silver Crusade

Singer wrote:

Well, the beauty of GMing is the only toes of concern are your own. Paizo has built a wonderful playground of fantasy, but in the end it is your game so build a foundation on the lore you know and run with it!

I think in many ways certain elements of the setting is left vague and open ended so you can do that very thing. Just 30 mins with the Inner Sea Guide had my mind whirring in all sorts of directions on the snippets of information began but never finished. There is a great drive to "fill in the gaps" with your own ideas and imagination.

I like many of your ideas and your players are lucky to have such an in depth plot to unravel. I wish you all the best!

Well, normally I'd say "campaign setting be damned!" but I happen to like Golarion, and since I do, and since it's just as new to my players as it is to me, I'd ideally like them to have access to the same setting knowledge I do, you know, that kinda interna consistency thing.

Though, as I am sure you can guess, I love to fill in the holes. :) (Wait, that sounded wrong.)

Thanks for the well-wishing, I hope they like it too. Mostly I try to keep things hands off, let the players decide what they want to do, but, well half the fun is setting up elaborate plots, inter-enemy conflicts and the like for them to barrel through.

Jus me wrote:

What is square and blue?

An Orange in disguise!

Random thoughts making little to no sense, self fulfilling, self obvious, unsolvable, but somehow linked and common sensicle once revealed is how I think you should speak to the character(s). I would imagine that the best route for character success would be to appeal to one side of Nethys or the other. I am not sure a non-divine mind could hope to have a talk to both his halves and maintain their own sanity.

Hmm. I'm liking this, and it's probably a good idea just to talk to one half at a time. It's hard enough writing for one supposedly incoherent, but all too coherent madman, let alone two.

Silver Crusade

Glutton wrote:
there is a pretty extensive article about Nethys in the back of AP#41: the thousand fangs below. Included is his answers to communes: give accurate information but the tone may be amused, belligerent, cold, disappointed, enraged, and so on. He isn't the classical insane, just mood-swingy. The article is 5 pages.

Hmm... I like this one.

AP #41? What's the AP short for? I assume it's a magazine?

So, mostly cogent and lucid, but with a tendency to swing between extreme emotions. I think I can do that.

Liberty's Edge

ArianDynas wrote:


AP #41? What's the AP short for? I assume it's a magazine?

"Adventure Path"

Based on the number, I think that one would fall somewhere during the Serpent's Skull AP?

Silver Crusade

Oh. That makes sense.

Scarab Sages

ArianDynas wrote:
As I understand it, from what I have heard anyway, was that Asmodeus murdered Aroden. When you say herald, I assume you're referring to his avatar?

The only 'god-slaying' I'm aware of from Asmodeus, is defeating Rovagug, though he/she/it isn't dead, but sealed away. As the one holding the key to the prison, Asmodeus essentially blackmailed his way into the pantheon.

THe gods of Golarion rarely appear in person, even as avatars. Most have a herald, who acts in their interests. Some of these have been statted out, in the religion articles at the rear of the Adventure Path issues.

The current herald of Asmodeus is Basileus, detailed HERE.


ArianDynas wrote:
As I understand it, from what I have heard anyway, was that Asmodeus murdered Aroden.

That might be correct, it might not. We have literally been provided with no details surrounding Aroden's death, other than the fact that he is indeed dead. Further, Paizo staff refuses to give us details. Whoever told you he was killed by Asmodeus is drawing information from any number of in-world conspiracy theories.

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When you say herald, I assume you're referring to his avatar?

I'm not. Each major deity, and probably some minor deities, has a CR 15 herald in his or her service. This being is usually a creature of person having some significance to the deity, and they are the most direct presence the deity has on Golarion. As noted Golarion's gods never speak to their worshipers directly. They also do not manifest avatars.

Nethys' herald is Arcanotheign, a roughly human-shaped cloud of magical energy that is very curious about mortal life.

Arcanotheign on PathfinderWiki

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Yeah, unfortunately it was not as helpful as I would hope. :(

That's all we know.

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Welp, not my game at least, taboo as it may be, but my campaign is featuring the rising of a new god, and one of the PCs may just be him.

That's fine, I was simply explaining why there is no information on the Cathedral's interior. It's beyond the scope of the Pathfinder Campaign Setting, and since you are incorporating aspects of Golarion into your homebrew setting it falls to you to determine how things things work together.


ArianDynas wrote:

Well, normally I'd say "campaign setting be damned!" but I happen to like Golarion, and since I do, and since it's just as new to my players as it is to me, I'd ideally like them to have access to the same setting knowledge I do, you know, that kinda interna consistency thing.

Though, as I am sure you can guess, I love to fill in the holes. :) (Wait, that sounded wrong.)

Thanks for the well-wishing, I hope they like it too. Mostly I try to keep things hands off, let the players decide what they want to do, but, well half the fun is setting up elaborate plots, inter-enemy conflicts and the like for them to barrel through.

Well, in that case it's worth noting the entire nature of your game is stomping on some very foundational elements in the Pathfinder Chronicles setting. The biggest one being that mortals are not capable of attaining power rivaling that of a god; the gods of Golarion created a divine assassin to kill anyone who nears that level of power. The blue dragon would literally be god-stomped before he even came close to attaining his goal. The only means of attaining divinity any longer is by passing the Test of the Starstone which, if you are allowed to enter, is a private Test that cannot be interfered with.

It is your campaign, and you should do what you wish, but if you want to know what toes you're stepping on the answer is some very big divinely-powered ones.

Silver Crusade

Heaven's Agent wrote:
ArianDynas wrote:

Well, normally I'd say "campaign setting be damned!" but I happen to like Golarion, and since I do, and since it's just as new to my players as it is to me, I'd ideally like them to have access to the same setting knowledge I do, you know, that kinda interna consistency thing.

Though, as I am sure you can guess, I love to fill in the holes. :) (Wait, that sounded wrong.)

Thanks for the well-wishing, I hope they like it too. Mostly I try to keep things hands off, let the players decide what they want to do, but, well half the fun is setting up elaborate plots, inter-enemy conflicts and the like for them to barrel through.

Well, in that case it's worth noting the entire nature of your game is stomping on some very foundational elements in the Pathfinder Chronicles setting. The biggest one being that mortals are not capable of attaining power rivaling that of a god; the gods of Golarion created a divine assassin to kill anyone who nears that level of power. The blue dragon would literally be god-stomped before he even came close to attaining his goal. The only means of attaining divinity any longer is by passing the Test of the Starstone which, if you are allowed to enter, is a private Test that cannot be interfered with.

It is your campaign, and you should do what you wish, but if you want to know what toes you're stepping on the answer is some very big divinely-powered ones.

The dragon actually isn't anywhere near the power of a god.

Which is why he's going to steal it.

I assume the old cliches of stealing divinity are still in place?

Basically his plot plays out like this;

His agent discovers that the Sarkorian Prophecies detail the rising of a nascent god of time who will arise by the test of the Starstone and take control of the portfolios of time and fate (Pharasma, her prophecies broken, will hand over her portfolio of Fate and turn merely to the business of guiding the dead). Said agent decides to take advantage of this, offering his master a method of stealing the divine spark from the nascent god at the moment of his apotheosis (sorta like what Karsus did to Mystryl, only easier, and less likely to blow up in his face.)

Muddying up this whole affair, this god chose to send an artifact, containing an aspect of himself back in time as "insurance" with the intention that it reach his past self and guide him to his apotheosis. Unfortunately, he himself remembers ALL the disparate timelines of what could have happened, and has forgotten who he himself happened to be, so the artifact got lost en route. The dragon knows about it, and believes with the proper ritual, that he may be able to use the artifact to give himself a tangible connection between himself and the nascent god. Hence why he needs this artifact, another artifact, being the book of Nethys, which, assuming that gets destroyed, leads them all into a race to be the first to cross the planes and reach the portal Shadowed Room.

Complicating the fact is there are a bunch of different candidates for the positition of nascent god and they're all equally valid. Meaning each group has to pick one their can either manipulate or endorse.

That, and from other things I've been checking out, apparently Irori became a god through his own power, the Starstone apparently MAY be detailed in a future adventure, once the Epic Level rules have been re-worked (apparently they're calling them Mythic now, fascinating.)

That, and he has a number of fanatically loyal followers, so, hey, ready-made base of worshipers. Not that he knows he needs them, of course.

As for the gods? Not planning on having them manifest on Golarion. Thanks for the herald information, but no, if they're going to meet a god, they're going to do it on his home plane. Knowing my players, if an avatar showed up on Golarion, one guy at least would want to screw with him.

That ain't happening in his own realm.

Though, come to think of it, I do have one last question.

Are all the followers of Rovagug stupid destruction obsessed morons, or are there any out there who are more subtle with their destruction?

I've got a cult of Rovagugan priests who want to get in on the whole prophecy business, convince one of the candidates that life has no meaning and blah blah blah, making him a loyal follower of Rovagug so that he might secretly gather his power, use some secret and powerful knowledge, fight Asmodeus for his key and use it to open the cage.

The higher ups in this bunch know exactly what'll happen. They release Rovagug and he and his spawn consume the world. The lower ranks, the newly inducted, the children off the street, the bored aristocrats seeking the excitement of being poseur cult members, are told that when released, he will destroy the world and remake it in his image, making them all kings.

This is of course, a lie. Rovagug never makes, or for that matter, remakes anything.

The problem with this is, of course, that it falls apart if there is no creative subtlety allowed in Rovagug's flock.


You could make the cultist a follower of Groetus who just wants to see everything, including himself, die and sees unleashing the Rough Beast upon the Multiverse as the best way to accomplish this.

Silver Crusade

ThatEvilGuy wrote:
You could make the cultist a follower of Groetus who just wants to see everything, including himself, die and sees unleashing the Rough Beast upon the Multiverse as the best way to accomplish this.

Hmm, would I be correct in the assumption that ALL the information I could possibly get is all in the Shattered Star AP?

The idea that it's not actually being led by a follower of Rovagug, and that the god himself just goes along with it as a way of getting out is an attractive one. It's deliciously evil.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I have no idea.


ArianDynas wrote:
ThatEvilGuy wrote:
You could make the cultist a follower of Groetus who just wants to see everything, including himself, die and sees unleashing the Rough Beast upon the Multiverse as the best way to accomplish this.

Hmm, would I be correct in the assumption that ALL the information I could possibly get is all in the Shattered Star AP?

The idea that it's not actually being led by a follower of Rovagug, and that the god himself just goes along with it as a way of getting out is an attractive one. It's deliciously evil.

This, at least, can be answered. Yes, Shattered Star is going to have an article on Groetus. But it won't be out for another few months.

As for everything else you asked, Heaven's Agent (appropriate name in this case) gave spot-on answers for pretty much everything.

It's your game so you're free to do what you like just be aware that you're heading into completely uncharted territory and you'll pretty much have to make most of it up yourself.

With the whole, "it's your game, do what you want," out of the way there are a few things regarding your plan you may want to know:

ArianDynas wrote:
I assume the old cliches of stealing divinity are still in place?

Not that we know of, or at least, not yet anyway. They have yet to detail the old Azlanti pantheon (a now dead civilization) and it's possible one of the gods in that pantheon may have done so (pure conjecture). As for the current pantheon, no, no one has ever stolen divinity; at least no one mortal. The only precedent currently set is Lamashtu who was only a Demigod (Demon Lord) before she stole full divinity from another.

ArianDynas wrote:
That, and from other things I've been checking out, apparently Irori became a god through his own power, the Starstone apparently MAY be detailed in a future adventure, once the Epic Level rules have been re-worked (apparently they're calling them Mythic now, fascinating.)

If you heard that on these forums, it was pure conjecture. There is just as likely a chance (probably more likely) that even with Mythic rules in place they'll still never detail the Starstone. You're probably on your own for this one (though people on the forums are usually pretty willing to help with this sort of thing).

ArianDynas wrote:
As for the gods? Not planning on having them manifest on Golarion. Thanks for the herald information, but no, if they're going to meet a god, they're going to do it on his home plane. Knowing my players, if an avatar showed up on Golarion, one guy at least would want to screw with him.

Again, this is all up to you but I want to note that even if an avatar did appear on the material plane, by canon, the players wouldn't really be able to screw with the gods since they're "beyond stats" (even with the upcoming Mythic rules) and this would probably include their avatars; though this one's a little trickier since there's more precedent for it. Which brings me to my other point, one of the reasons the gods never interact directly with their followers is precisely because they don't send their avatars to Golarion. They refuse to. Ever since one of the lesser divinities (Arazni) was killed on the material plane, the gods decided to withdraw all direct contact from mortals, including avatars. You're welcome to change this as you like, I'm just informing you in the interest of full disclosure.

Cheers,
Tony

Silver Crusade

I appreciate the disclosure, really this IS why I asked the questions as I did.

Though a few things I will say, not so sure about this "divine assassin" business detailing a killer of demigods, did a bit of research, but I couldn't find anything on it. Doesn't really mean anything though.

I had heard the things from the forum yes, but in this case, the post that the fellow had quoted and linked from had been from one of the developers, a Mr. Erik Mona, via their reddit.

Erik Mona Wrote...
"YES! We will do this eventually, likely some time in the next couple of years. I must confess that the third edition epic-level rules have almost no "champions" at Paizo. The math underlying the d20 system rules gets shaky enough at the standard high levels, so simply patching another 20 levels on top of that with a bunch of uber feats and some lame monsters doesn't really work for us. We've been experimenting with a totally different concept that allows for the sort of high-octane "mythic" adventuring that we think fans of epic content want, but with a completely different mechanical approach. We're still in the concepting stage for how exactly this will work at the moment, but it's definitely something we will be getting around to in the relatively near future.
As for the Test of the Starstone, that's meant to bridge the gap between "mortal" and "demigod," and at present we're not exactly sure what level that should be. A proper treatment of this dungeon would probably be appropriate for the 20+ set, which means we need to create the rules for those types of characters before we can do justice to this idea.
As the inventor of the Test of the Starstone, however, I can say that we WILL do this at some point. My current Pathfinder campaign, "Kings of Abslom" (which all the other Paizo people participating in today's AMA have played) is sort of a long-form prelude to the Test of the Starstone, so this is definitely something we're thinking about and planning toward."

Don't know about Irori though. Just what I had read. Unfortunately the extent of what his wiki page says is; "His followers claim he achieved enlightenment and ascended to godhood."

Though I did hear one rather good idea that the Starstone itself is just a big rock, and that the test itself is one of self-examination and enlightenment, allowing the individual to realize that through all their tests and having reached their own personal perfection, they never needed a magic rock to achieve godhood, because they had the divine spark all along.

Just my opinion though. :)

As for not having an avatar appear, as I said, part of why is my players would be the bunch who would be... shall we say less than respectful? They wouldn't SUCCEED at #$&8ing with him, but I really don't want to have to give them a TPK via wrathful deity, so hopefully if they're in a godly domain they'll be a bit more restrained.

That and, well it gives me a b~!$~in opportunity to do some planetrotting adventures, exploring the hells, visiting godly domains and demiplanes, maybe pop into Sigil for a cuppa (Yes, I know, WoTC still owns Planescape and there is no Sigil, but as I said, Golarion deserves to be part of the D&D cosmology more than that abomination 4th edition does.)

But thanks for the help, it is nice to know there are less holes in my evil plot than I thought.

Perhaps one possibility could be having my dragon use a ring of polymorph to appear human, take the test honestly, become a demigod himself, and then steal the divine spark of another god.

Or maybe that's just silly. Idk. Thoughts?


I like your take on "stealing divinity" so I hope it works out for you. Sounds like a fun campaign.

Ah, yes, I do remember that discussion with Erik Mona now. Well, Erik has a lot of pull so if he's pushing for it then perhaps we will see it. I doubt it will be an adventure since it's supposed to be such a personal experience but they may cover it in a setting book, sort of a "how-to" guide. I retract my previous statement about pure conjecture. Also, I wasn't referring to the Irori bit - that part you got spot on.

As for the divine assassin, here: Achaekek

As a matter of civility, I'll keep my opinion of disrespectful PCs (in terms of players who think they can get away with anything) to myself. Though I will say that I do believe in survival of the fittest and, IMO, individuals with a casual disregard for beings with ultimate power are not very fit (mentally).

Cheers,
Tony


In regard to Irori: he is supposed to have achieved divinity by his own merits, rising in power until poofing into godhood. That was before Achaekek was created, though; any mortal rising to such levels of power gets killed by the gods' mantis assassin now. To go into more detail of what Block Knight said, the reason was to prevent mortals from attaining the power of gods and humiliating deities:

Arazni was the herald of Aroden and a demigod in her own right. She was killed by Tar-Baphon in 3823 AR, before which it was believed no mortal could kill a god. Her body was later stolen by another mortal, Geb, in 3890 AR and reanimated as a lich. She serves him as his Harlot Queen to this day. Achaekek was created to prevent this sort of thing from ever happening again, and he is dispatched to kill any mortal nearing divine power.

As a result of this the Test of the Starstone is now the only way to attain divinity.

It is also worth noting that if your dragon passes the Test it will become a fully realized deity in its own right. No need to steal anything.


The one instance in pathfinder of stealing divinity is when the Demon Lord Lamashtu ambushed the Animal God Curchanas with a host of demons and ripped away his domain over beasts in a climatic battle. This made her the first demon to ascend to godhood.

Silver Crusade

The Block Knight wrote:

I like your take on "stealing divinity" so I hope it works out for you. Sounds like a fun campaign.

Ah, yes, I do remember that discussion with Erik Mona now. Well, Erik has a lot of pull so if he's pushing for it then perhaps we will see it. I doubt it will be an adventure since it's supposed to be such a personal experience but they may cover it in a setting book, sort of a "how-to" guide. I retract my previous statement about pure conjecture. Also, I wasn't referring to the Irori bit - that part you got spot on.

As for the divine assassin, here: Achaekek

As a matter of civility, I'll keep my opinion of disrespectful PCs (in terms of players who think they can get away with anything) to myself. Though I will say that I do believe in survival of the fittest and, IMO, individuals with a casual disregard for beings with ultimate power are not very fit (mentally).

Cheers,
Tony

Yeah *bashful* I looked it up not long after, and since have decided I probably have to scrap a good sized bit of my plot.

Came to the realization that I could stack layers and layers of complexity on top of other layers, but the end result wouldn't be very satisfying.

Though, thinking about it, perhaps I can salvage the plotlines I have if my great blue friend believes he can secure his divinity by holding the pathfinder society as an asset, thinking perhaps that some force in the society knows a way to make the test a sure thing.

I came to the realization that a "prophecy" restricted things too much, and didn't want to take the campaign in the direction I currently am, and will likely do a good bit of re-writing behind the scenes.

Perhaps my best start would be writing up a list of what my players know, or think they remember, or what they think is important and go from there.

Back to the drawing board, I suppose.

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