Bride of Government Folly


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Liberty's Edge

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Bitter Thorn wrote:
Krensky wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
California Seizes Guns as Owners Lose Right to Keep Arms
They're politely knocking on the doors and removing weapons from people who have lost the right to own firearms. You didn't even read this one, did you?

They are also taking them from family members who have not been arbitrarily stripped of their fundamental humans rights.

Are you trying to be deliberately obtuse or are you just trolling?

Then don't live with a felon. Or keep your guns in storage. There's nothing arbitrary there. Convicted felons, people who have been involuntarily committed and those subject ot domestic violence orders are not allowed to own or have access to firearms. The end.

Why don't you stick to spamming stories about the police shooting pets.


OK. I'm done feeding the troll.


Bitter Thorn wrote:
Krensky wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
California Seizes Guns as Owners Lose Right to Keep Arms
They're politely knocking on the doors and removing weapons from people who have lost the right to own firearms. You didn't even read this one, did you?

They are also taking them from family members who have not been arbitrarily stripped of their fundamental humans rights.

Are you trying to be deliberately obtuse or are you just trolling?

Nothing "arbitrary" about it.

And it becomes somewhat pointless to legally prevent a felon from having firearms if he can just pick up a family member's gun at a whim.

Liberty's Edge

Bitter Thorn wrote:
Special Forces Deaths Fuel A-10 Debate

Note that the article doesn't say anything about the cause- there's no reason to assume that having a A-10 there would have made a difference.


Bitter Thorn wrote:
DAYTON, Ohio (CN) - Dayton police "mistook" a mentally handicapped teenager's speech impediment for "disrespect," so they Tasered, pepper-sprayed and beat him and called for backup from "upward of 20 police officers" after the boy rode his bicycle home to ask his mother for help, the boy's mom says.

According to the article, the two people involved in the incident knew each other fairly well. I think there's more to this than what's being reported here or what the mother is saying. I think the cop is trying to shut someone up or intimidate them into silence.


Bitter Thorn wrote:
Krensky wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
California Seizes Guns as Owners Lose Right to Keep Arms
They're politely knocking on the doors and removing weapons from people who have lost the right to own firearms. You didn't even read this one, did you?

They are also taking them from family members who have not been arbitrarily stripped of their fundamental humans rights.

Are you trying to be deliberately obtuse or are you just trolling?

Not trying to pile on, BT, but this happens in NY a whole hell of a lot. Guns grow legs quite readily, and when you've got a family member of one sort or another who has a clean record and a clean gun, it's not that hard to get one's hands on it. I don't know if this is a good way to go about solving the problem, however.


Usagi Yojimbo wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
Special Forces Deaths Fuel A-10 Debate
Note that the article doesn't say anything about the cause- there's no reason to assume that having a A-10 there would have made a difference.

This is part of a larger trend and numerous other stories. The Air Force and DOD bureaucrats want to retire the A-10 which is an excellent and cost effective CAS platform. It's low speed and low altitude capabilities make it far superior in the role than a strategic bomber. The low speed and altitude capabilities also make a huge difference in target discernment which greatly reduces the likelihood of civilian and friendly fire casualties.

IMO the rush to retire the A-10 is directly related to the push for the F-35 JSF which I think is a prime example of corruption and incompetence in military/political contracting. IIRC the F-35 project has consumed around 350 billion dollars without fielding a single aircraft. Spending a third of a trillion dollars to replace a system that works very well seems like the definition of government folly to me.


Freehold DM wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
Krensky wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
California Seizes Guns as Owners Lose Right to Keep Arms
They're politely knocking on the doors and removing weapons from people who have lost the right to own firearms. You didn't even read this one, did you?

They are also taking them from family members who have not been arbitrarily stripped of their fundamental humans rights.

Are you trying to be deliberately obtuse or are you just trolling?

Not trying to pile on, BT, but this happens in NY a whole hell of a lot. Guns grow legs quite readily, and when you've got a family member of one sort or another who has a clean record and a clean gun, it's not that hard to get one's hands on it. I don't know if this is a good way to go about solving the problem, however.

I'll get back to you in a PM or email. I think you are a decent person, and you're one of the liberals on here that I actually respect.

I just don't want to see the usual political trolls get this thread closed too.

Liberty's Edge

Bitter Thorn wrote:
Usagi Yojimbo wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
Special Forces Deaths Fuel A-10 Debate
Note that the article doesn't say anything about the cause- there's no reason to assume that having a A-10 there would have made a difference.

This is part of a larger trend and numerous other stories...

... I think is a prime example of corruption and incompetence in military/political contracting. IIRC the F-35 project has consumed around 350 billion dollars without fielding a single aircraft. Spending a third of a trillion dollars to replace a system that works very well seems like the definition of government folly to me.

Oh, no disagreement here, in fact the F-35 story as a whole is even worse than you suggest. I just mean that this particular article does not provide any useful information.


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In order to prosecute a 17 year old on child porn charges for sexting his 15 year old girlfriend, police plan on using injections to make him erect and then comparing his penis to the sext with "special software".

Nothing fights child porn like creating child porn. The good news is that today police abandoned this plan. The bad news is that a judge signed off on this warrant.


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Good to see you again!


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The blossoming "war on child pornography" looks like it will make the "war on drugs" seem positively reasonable, sane, and useful in comparison.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
The blossoming "war on child pornography" looks like it will make the "war on drugs" seem positively reasonable, sane, and useful in comparison.

"Blossoming"? It's been going on for decades.

The particular bit of "War on teens taking sexy pictures of themselves" is only a few years old and getting ugly, with the main penalties falling on the very people it's supposed to be protecting.

It's mostly a result of the literal application of laws intended for one purpose to another.


thejeff wrote:
"Blossoming"? It's been going on for decades.

I don't think we've seen anything yet, compared to where it seems to be headed. I'm pessimistically envisioning a future in which 50% of the population is on some kind of registry list for life, and I think our current 1% of the adult population actually being in prison at any given time will peak at closer to 10% before suffient political leverage to apply the brakes can be found.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
thejeff wrote:
"Blossoming"? It's been going on for decades.
I don't think we've seen anything yet, compared to where it seems to be headed. I'm pessimistically envisioning a future in which 50% of the population is on some kind of registry list for life, and I think our current 1% of the adult population actually being in prison at any given time will peak at closer to 10% before suffient political leverage to apply the brakes can be found.

I think you're right, but it won't just be because of the war on child pornography.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
thejeff wrote:
"Blossoming"? It's been going on for decades.
I don't think we've seen anything yet, compared to where it seems to be headed. I'm pessimistically envisioning a future in which 50% of the population is on some kind of registry list for life, and I think our current 1% of the adult population actually being in prison at any given time will peak at closer to 10% before suffient political leverage to apply the brakes can be found.

I don't know. If you're thinking about the results of the sexting cases, the backlash against that has been pretty strong. I suspect it will sort itself out fairly quickly.

Reminds a little bit of the hubbub (back in the 80s? early 90s?) where people were getting busted for child porn for baby pictures. Same kind of thing, where the literal law covered it, but not the obvious intent. Some people's lives certainly got ruined, but the rules got changed, both the actual laws and the unwritten "What's actually a good idea to prosecute" rules.


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Huzzah for the return of Comrade Knife!


thejeff wrote:
Kirth Gersen wrote:
thejeff wrote:
"Blossoming"? It's been going on for decades.
I don't think we've seen anything yet, compared to where it seems to be headed. I'm pessimistically envisioning a future in which 50% of the population is on some kind of registry list for life, and I think our current 1% of the adult population actually being in prison at any given time will peak at closer to 10% before suffient political leverage to apply the brakes can be found.

I don't know. If you're thinking about the results of the sexting cases, the backlash against that has been pretty strong. I suspect it will sort itself out fairly quickly.

Reminds a little bit of the hubbub (back in the 80s? early 90s?) where people were getting busted for child porn for baby pictures. Same kind of thing, where the literal law covered it, but not the obvious intent. Some people's lives certainly got ruined, but the rules got changed, both the actual laws and the unwritten "What's actually a good idea to prosecute" rules.

I agree with both of you. I think its going to get alot worse, but when it does it will quickly get better.


TheWhiteknife wrote:

In order to prosecute a 17 year old on child porn charges for sexting his 15 year old girlfriend, police plan on using injections to make him erect and then comparing his penis to the sext with "special software".

Nothing fights child porn like creating child porn. The good news is that today police abandoned this plan. The bad news is that a judge signed off on this warrant.

sexting has changed the world.

Liberty's Edge

Because sending innocent people to jail for years isn't enough, they need to stay there forever!

Brady rule? What Brady rule?


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This is a great article on how the current efforts to save children are not working.


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Or this one, where people arrested for drug trafficking/use are starved or killed.


Apparently, some lawmakers are trying to shut youth out of the voting booths.

Liberty's Edge

I don't know anything about this site (and it might be horrible commie propaganda) but his seems like something that everyone should be worried about.

Gov't will not investigate CIA spying on Congress


Ah, you've discovered the Northites, Usagi-san.

Liberty's Edge

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Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
Ah, you've discovered the Northites, Usagi-san.

...maybe?

Google thinks that I've spelled the name of a type of feldspar wrong when I try to look it up, though.


David North.

[Deep breath]

Leading figure in the Socialist Equality Party, which used to be the Workers League, which was the American section of the International Committee of the Fourth International before that blew up (and rather dramatically) in the mid-80s.

I was trained to hate them as a young goblin militant, so I will say nothing more other than offer a list of names to look up, if you want to further vett the site: Gerry Healy (boo!), Tim Wohlforth (boo!), Cliff Slaughter (awesome name!) and Vanessa Redgrave (you might have heard of her).

All that being said, they can write some pretty good articles when they want to.


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'Perversion of Justice': Anti-Drone Activist and Grandmother Sentenced to One Year


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Those Kids Crossing the Border From Mexico Wouldn't Be There If Obama Hadn't Supported a Coup the Media Doesn't Talk About


This article is so soft on zelaya and the facts it mentions in the third paragraph that its not funny. Another obama attack piece. Disappointing, anklebiter.


Is it?

In the circles I run in it's a given that Todos Somos Ilegales!!! and that the CIA gave Chavez cancer, so, I admit, my viewpoint may be skewed.

Liberty's Edge

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

David North.

[Deep breath]

Leading figure in the Socialist Equality Party, which used to be the Workers League, which was the American section of the International Committee of the Fourth International before that blew up (and rather dramatically) in the mid-80s.

Good lord. Went and followed the links a few deep in Wikipedia.

So, basically, world communism failed and fell because they spent a century engaged in an ideological struggle to the death with their worst enemies... communists.


Ultraleft sectarianism for the wi--, well, for the fail, I guess.

G#@+@!n Healyites...

Liberty's Edge

Mother fscking Bolsheviks.


Yeah, well, we still overthrew you, Alex.

Liberty's Edge

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

Ultraleft sectarianism for the wi--, well, for the fail, I guess.

G@#%$!n Healyites...

So Healy personally seems to have been a dirtbag, or at least an accused dirtbag, what's up with the rest of them? Is there a primer somewhere for Reasons They Suck?


I have a couple pamphlets, believe it or not, but they don't appear to be on the internet.

Wohlforth was kicked out back in the mid-70s, I believe, and is today a Democrat, I think. Maybe he hangs out with Citizen K(e)rensky.

I have no idea whatever happened to Cliff Slaughter, or even whether he is still alive.

Vanessa Redgrave, according to wikipedia, was last in a film with Steve Carrell, Channing Tatum and Marc Ruffalo that competed for the Palme d'Or at Cannes.


Anyway, in 2009, I was recovering from my bout with homelessness and didn't follow the news very closely.

I think I'll start here:

Exclusive Interview with Manuel Zelaya on the U.S. Role in Honduran Coup, WikiLeaks and Why He Was Ousted


Doubling down, baby!

Democracy Now!: U.S. Turns Back on Child Migrants After Its Policies in Guatemala, Honduras Sowed Seeds of Crisis

Socialist Worker:
A Flood of Bigotry About the Border

Black Agenda Report:
What Corporate Media and Corporate Latino Politicians Won't Tell You About Central American Child Refugees


Bitter Thorn wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
Police Chase and Kill 3 Dogs in Marijuana Raid: "Like Shooting Deer"
I remain unconvinced. If you're into weed and have more than two pit bulls, you're protecting your stash with lethal intent imo.

Or the mama had a litter of pups and the owners like to relax on the weekend. Or a family lives in a more rural environment and they have multiple rescue dogs some of which are pit mixes, and they have a family member who is being treated with MMJ.

There's a whole world of examples that don't fit your opinion here.

Add to that the fact that cops routinely falsely claim that the dogs they shot are "vicious", "dangerous", and "pit bulls" because a lot of folks stop reading at that point, and there is a hell of a lot of cause to be skeptical.

still not trusting 'em


More studies needed in apparent choke hold death

This officer has been sued before for bigoted behavior on the job, including a illegal strip search. SI cops are notorious for their bigoted attitudes and being the even longer arm of the mob, but this is a particularly egregious episode. That EMS didn't do anything is either going to clear the cops or damn them further.


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To tide you all over until Comrade Thorn returns:

Man’s Death After Chokehold Raises Old Issue for the Police

Florida Town Stunned by News of Police KKK Ties


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FBI paying people to be terrorists

Please tell me that story is not true...


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There was an on-line article I read a whiles back, from Mother Jones IIRC, that claimed that two-third(?) of all post-9/11 terrorist convictions were people set up by the FBI. Lessee if I can find it...

EDIT:

The Informants

Woops, only one-third.


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

To tide you all over until Comrade Thorn returns:

Man’s Death After Chokehold Raises Old Issue for the Police

*ahem* points up


Woops, my eyes glazed over because I thought you were still talking about dogs. I, of course, hate dogs.


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We'll bang your wife, ruin you in court, and then make ourselves immune to the rules that we hold you to!

This must be that "government-is-held-more-easily-accountable-than-private-individuals" that I heard so much about before.


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TheWhiteknife wrote:

We'll bang your wife, ruin you in court, and then make ourselves immune to the rules that we hold you to!

This must be that "government-is-held-more-easily-accountable-than-private-individuals" that I heard so much about before.

Oh man, it gets better. When his mistress broke it off with him, Judge McCree lied to prosecuters to try to get her arrested for stalking and extortion.

So where the heck are the perjury charges?


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I apologize in advance, Comrade Freehold, if this is in the story you linked above:

NYC police investigate another apparent chokehold


I always liked the "Workers Revolution Will Avenge XXXXX" slogan.

Workers Revolution Will Avenge Eric Garner

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