Hi people. This was a question that popped up one day after the gaming session.
I play in a very sandboxy exploration campaign where environmental rules; eg. encumbrance, fatigue, starvation and thirst are given a fair deal of importance.
One of my characters is a dwarven invulnerable rager and when he reaches 6th level will become virtually immune to the negative effects of forced march, starvation, thirst, etc. thanks to his DR6/- vs nonlethal.
My DM and I believe that this is an unintended consequence of the application of RAW and pretty unrealistic. Unless we are reading the ability wrong.
I can see that this is an issue that is usually handwaved anyway past certain levels and in a world where things like ring of sustenance are at hand it doesn't appear to be very important but nonetheless I would like to hear what the forums have to say about it.
Intended? Unintended? Another case of fighters can't have nice things...
(edit for spelling)
Interesting, by the rules it appears you are correct. Not that big a deal mechanically but I am not sure I would like it on a RP level.
- Gauss
I think it's an unintended consequence of the DR. Technically speaking, your Barbarian can't die from thirst or starvation. Personally, I'd rule that the non-lethal damage overcomes all DR because your body has no nutrients to maintain the DR. But that isn't RAW. RAW says your Barbarian becomes immune to starvation and thirst at 6th level.
Damage Reduction (Ex or Su)
A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks.
I do not believe starvation and thirst to be a weapon.
The numerical part of a creature's damage reduction (or DR) is the amount of damage the creature ignores from normal attacks.
Or a normal attack.
Damage Reduction (Ex or Su)
A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks.
I do not believe starvation and thirst to be a weapon.
The numerical part of a creature's damage reduction (or DR) is the amount of damage the creature ignores from normal attacks.Or a normal attack.
My thoughts exactly. Your rager can't be knocked out by non-lethal attacks very easily, but DR wouldn't apply to damage from starvation or forced marching etc.
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Damage Reduction (Ex or Su)
A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks.
I do not believe starvation and thirst to be a weapon.
The numerical part of a creature's damage reduction (or DR) is the amount of damage the creature ignores from normal attacks.Or a normal attack.
I don't know... Starvation is a pretty great natural weapon.
Interesting points everyone.
Just musing about it...
What about falling damage?
It's not a weapon or an attack either but it seems that DR should apply in that case.
a sorcerer with some undead or similar bloodline also gets immune to it, there are other dozen+ ways to have it as well, nothing huge or special at this point
No, as blackblood troll already said it's certainly not gamebreaking at all, we'll decide how to deal with it eventually in our home game.
Just trying to see what the consensus is here.
I think the warrior/barbarian type characters have it the easiest to explain that they are stronger and more durable from not getting water and food for long periods, or to be able to survive the heat of sun in desert or snowstorms almost nude (imaging classical Conan "gear")
Sure. I like the idea of my stoic barbarian shrugging off these kind of effects, to a certain degree. A good houserule could be scaling the damage along with the saving throw DC. Maybe +1 to damage when the DC increases. That keeps the DR relevant but not giving flat out immunity.
I think the most extreme situations cause 2d6 damage, if so, even this won't entirely shield you from everything possible
I believe most people let DR apply against falling damage, for the same reason that they let it apply against smashing damage...it's the same thing. There's no difference between picking up someone and slamming them into a wall for damage, or pushing them into a pit for damage. It's still blunt impact trauma, and throwing someone to the ground with a wrestling throw and tossing them into a pit are the same thing. Be stupid to have DR work when tossing someone into a pit, but not when the trap opens and they fall in.
But starvation and thirst are definitely not weapons, and the barb would take the non lethal damage.
==Aelryinth
My thoughts exactly. Your rager can't be knocked out by non-lethal attacks very easily, but DR wouldn't apply to damage from starvation or forced marching etc.Damage Reduction (Ex or Su)
A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks.
I do not believe starvation and thirst to be a weapon.
The numerical part of a creature's damage reduction (or DR) is the amount of damage the creature ignores from normal attacks.Or a normal attack.
This is my exact interpretation as well.
DR doesn't work against anything that doesn't count as a weapon or natural weapon unless specified otherwise.
The invulnerable rager gets minor resistance to cold or fire in addition to deal with environmental issues.
* In my games I have it apply to falling damage as well.
Well that's a fair point AnnoyingOrange;
allowing DR to trump environmental conditions makes the extreme endurance ability worthless. Apparently going against the design of the archetype.
I like the compromise of allowing DR to apply vs falling damage and any other... instantaneous, external source of damage?
Thank you all for your responses, by the way.
i have always seen falling damage as being 'bludgeoning' type damage for anything that cares about it.
(or piercing, or even slashing, if appropriate, e.g. spiked pit trap)
the other environmental conditions are elemental damage type, which ignores DR per RAW,
but putting it in as-close-to-RAW-a-possible terms, the starvation/etc damage perhaps should be classed as negative energy damage (energy damage which bypasses DR inherently), although that would have it's own issues if you have any NegEnergy resistance 8-/
Hope you never have to play with an Oracle of Bones with the Resist Life revelation. They are healed by Negative Energy, so it would be beneficial for them to be constantly starving.