Paizo Staff: Watermarked, Pirated PDFs - What to Do?


Paizo General Discussion

1 to 50 of 671 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | next > last >>
Dark Archive

2 people marked this as a favorite.

So, you know how every Paizo/Pathfinder product purchased from the website is watermarked with the name and Paizo-associated e-mail address of the buyer?

Is there any avenue or means by which one can or should report such names and e-mail addresses, should we come across them? Such as when an admittedly-pirated Paizo PDF starts circulating throughout your own gaming group? Or is there really no point?

Paizo Employee Senior Software Developer

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Send an email to webmaster@paizo.com. We take these reports very seriously.

Sovereign Court

8 people marked this as a favorite.

Yes, so seriously that if your PC is hacked and files taken, Paizo punishes you and refuses to listen. Happened to a good friend of mine who did NOT give away his files. He worked tech security for Sun at home and his PC was hacked. Paizo refused to sell him anything from then on.

So make sure you never get hacked... which can still happen with the best security in place

Sovereign Court

I have stumbled upon PDFs with watermarks removed...either hamhandedly by using a black rectangle over the name and e-mail, or professionally by actually removing the watermark. Is there a way for Paizo to recognize those?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Or even accidentally leave your thumb drive with all your gaming PDFs on it on a table at a convention. You're hosed lol

Dark Archive

@ Gary Teter: Will do.

@ IceniQueen & jreyst: Well, that's a tricky position for Paizo to be in. I'd imagine that it comes down to: you decide to believe everyone who says "it wasn't me, I was hacked" (which is bound to be everyone that you confront on the subject), or you decide to believe none of them.

Paizo Employee Senior Software Developer

Hama wrote:
I have stumbled upon PDFs with watermarks removed...either hamhandedly by using a black rectangle over the name and e-mail, or professionally by actually removing the watermark. Is there a way for Paizo to recognize those?
We don't discuss details of our PDF security measures publicly for what I hope are obvious reasons. But in general, if you find something hinky, email webmaster@paizo.com and we'll investigate.

The Exchange

5 people marked this as a favorite.
jreyst wrote:
Or even accidentally leave your thumb drive with all your gaming PDFs on it on a table at a convention. You're hosed lol

There's an app for that :) TrueCrypt.

Anything of potential value to an attacker should be stored encrypted and only decrypted while in use. Similarly, lock tablet devices.

As for other excuses - someone hacked your machine and torrented your gaming PDFs? They are more likely to use your card details to buy a set!

The Exchange

Any good encryption apps for Android? Got me a Nexus 7 and One X and will be at lots of cons coming up.. should make sure stuffs solidly locked down in case of loss I suppose...

The Exchange

d20pfsrd.com wrote:
Any good encryption apps for Android? Got me a Nexus 7 and One X and will be at lots of cons coming up.. should make sure stuffs solidly locked down in case of loss I suppose...

I'm an iDevice / Mac / Linux person myself, so I can't advise. However, my iPad is set to require a pin code to access it and therefore can't be connected to an untrusted machine and have PDFs syphoned off it - can a similar approach be used for Android.

Sovereign Court

5 people marked this as a favorite.
Garden Tool wrote:

@ Gary Teter: Will do.

@ IceniQueen & jreyst: Well, that's a tricky position for Paizo to be in. I'd imagine that it comes down to: you decide to believe everyone who says "it wasn't me, I was hacked" (which is bound to be everyone that you confront on the subject), or you decide to believe none of them.

Maybe, but they refused to tell him where they found it. He was guilty until proven innocent which was never because they refused to give him information.

Made him so mad he left playing PF which he thought was a great system, better than 4.0. So what did he do, went to play 4.0.

We lost a great DM and a great player and had to shove Serpent Skull AP down the toilet

Guilty until proven innocent

The Exchange

2 people marked this as a favorite.
IceniQueen wrote:
Yes, so seriously that if your PC is hacked and files taken, Paizo punishes you and refuses to listen.

Firstly, that is an awful thing to have happen.

I can't find a link to any explicit terms and conditions for the watermarked PDFs, but I have always operated under the assumption that I am solely responsible for ensuring the security of those PDFs. If they get taken, even if it's no fault of my own, I'd expect the same to happen to me.

If your friend suspects an associate of yours of taking the PDFs then contacting the local police might result in Paizo being willing to release details of site and account to them if there is an active investigation underway. If he doesn't, then knowing the website they were found on will be of no use in proving that he did not put them there.

Liberty's Edge

3 people marked this as a favorite.

One might say that, if one finds that one's computer is seriously hacked or if one's information is compromised in some way, perhaps alerting Paizo to that fact proactively might be a good thing to do.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Jeremiziah wrote:
One might say that, if one finds that one's computer is seriously hacked or if one's information is compromised in some way, perhaps alerting Paizo to that fact proactively might be a good thing to do.

Good point.....

I'm from the "pre-computer" generations....so a lot of the comments you guy's make in regards to protecting myself sound like some martian language :P

This I can do however ;)


Why would a random hacker go after Paizo PDFs? There's no money in that. I think it's more likely that an acquaintance of the person who got banned leaked the PDFs.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
kenmckinney wrote:
Why would a random hacker go after Paizo PDFs? There's no money in that. I think it's more likely that an acquaintance of the person who got banned leaked the PDFs.

This. That story sounds fishy.

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Skeld wrote:
kenmckinney wrote:
Why would a random hacker go after Paizo PDFs? There's no money in that. I think it's more likely that an acquaintance of the person who got banned leaked the PDFs.
This. That story sounds fishy.

Actually... no it is not. The files where found on a file sharing site. The same thing happens to music you may have on your PC.

How many of you copy or share music with friends? Do you know this is illegal?

How many share and copy movies? illegal!

I'd be willing to bet many PF do either.

So if someone hacks your PC and then you get an email from Paizo saying they will not sell to you because files where found on a file sharing site and you go WTF, I did no such thing, Have fun disproving it, especially when the company refuses to give you details to what site had them and a way to possible track an intruder.

All systems including IPADS, and Unix CAN be hacked. Trust me, having worked for the Federal Government it happens even on secure sites. Even in major corporations like Paizo, and others it happens.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Sharing media is not illegal when handled the same way that you would have shared a book in the 1920's.

What people call sharing today is actually simply copying.Making something available for other people to copy is the illegal bit. Loaning someone a legal instance is legal.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I removed a post. That was uncalled for.

Sovereign Court

hustonj wrote:

Sharing media is not illegal when handled the same way that you would have shared a book in the 1920's.

What people call sharing today is actually simply copying.Making something available for other people to copy is the illegal bit. Loaning someone a legal instance is legal.

You can let a friend borrow music but if they burn it to a drive and copy it for themselves, it is illegal. If you burn your CD and post on a file sharing site, it is illegal. If you burn a cd for a friend, it is illegal. If you do not believe me... Ask Metallica and most ever recording artist and music company out there.


Who said that wasn't illegal?


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
IceniQueen wrote:
hustonj wrote:

Sharing media is not illegal when handled the same way that you would have shared a book in the 1920's.

What people call sharing today is actually simply copying.Making something available for other people to copy is the illegal bit. Loaning someone a legal instance is legal.

You can let a friend borrow music but if they burn it to a drive and copy it for themselves, it is illegal. If you burn your CD and post on a file sharing site, it is illegal. If you burn a cd for a friend, it is illegal. If you do not believe me... Ask Metallica and most ever recording artist and music company out there.

I'm a little puzzled what your point is? Yes those things are not allowable - neither is giving a friend a copy of your paizo pdfs.

If a copy of any of those things can be traced to you, you'll be presumed to have breached the conditions. What else should happen? Presumably your friend (who has been hacked) can trace back to the event and provide evidence of such to Paizo - it's not going to help him locate the hacking incident on his home computer if Paizo tell him where they found the pirated PDFs.


Brock made a good point upthread a ways. It's up to the purchaser of Paizo pdfs to secure them from distribution.

If, by intent or ignorance, your pdfs wander away and get mulched through bit torrent sites or end up on a file sharing website, then you have displayed a deficiency in helping Paizo protect their content. I would imagine that there is some discussion that could be had in extenuating circumstances (like providing proof of a police report noting the theft of pcs/devices containing the pdfs), but it would be grossly inept for Paizo to acquiesce to a simple unsubstantiated claim of victimized innocence.

There will be instances of people getting punished for another person's wrong doing. But there are plenty of ways to secure your digital media from theft. TrueCrypt linked above is free, and what I use when I'm hauling sensitive files around the country on laptops, or on external storage media. It works well for pdfs on flash drives/computers too.

I really hope none of my pdfs wander away from my control, but even the best laid plans and security can get borked up eventually. And if Paizo finds out before I know about it (like if <bad guy> spies show up and copy my files while I am not looking and I have the files open for use)? Well they'd be doing right by themselves and treating me fairly to say "you are the weakest link...g'bye." I would just need to purchase a couple sham-wows for my tears because I love my cold-hearted little packets of digital imagery.

Grand Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
IceniQueen wrote:
Skeld wrote:
kenmckinney wrote:
Why would a random hacker go after Paizo PDFs? There's no money in that. I think it's more likely that an acquaintance of the person who got banned leaked the PDFs.
This. That story sounds fishy.

Actually... no it is not. The files where found on a file sharing site. The same thing happens to music you may have on your PC.

How many of you copy or share music with friends? Do you know this is illegal?

How many share and copy movies? illegal!

I'd be willing to bet many PF do either.

So if someone hacks your PC and then you get an email from Paizo saying they will not sell to you because files where found on a file sharing site and you go WTF, I did no such thing, Have fun disproving it, especially when the company refuses to give you details to what site had them and a way to possible track an intruder.

All systems including IPADS, and Unix CAN be hacked. Trust me, having worked for the Federal Government it happens even on secure sites. Even in major corporations like Paizo, and others it happens.

Hackers don't hack to steal music/PDFs off a random computer to post to a torrent. They hack to steal money. Chances are if your friend's PDFs were torrented, it was either your friend or someone that had access to the friend's computer. Hackers want credit card numbers. So, yeah, the story sounds fishy.

-Skeld

Sovereign Court

Not all hackers want credit card money...some hack computers for kicks or because they can. I have a friend who likes to hack other people's computers and change their backgrounds into penis photographs. Just that.

What if someone hacked IceniQeen's friend's computer and found his PF pdfs and said "ooo some pf books i do not yet have...let's copy them all"?


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Then he should be able to demonstrate such to paizo, without needing to know where they found the PDFs. If he can't demonstrate it, then he's basically just guessing that that's what happened. It seems obvious, to me, that a publisher can't just take someone's speculation about what might have happened as a reasonable defense to a claim of a breached license.


I don't think it sounds fishy, as it probably isn't 'hackers' but rather a bunch of people who are either known, or friends of friends, who just helped themselves either because they wanted the files or 'for teh lulz'.

Not every crooked person is a fiendish credit card theif out for the big time, people also happily shoplift a chocolate bar from a convenience store by eating it as they walk and just dropping the wrapper at the door. People just do that sort of thing.

The person who finds your thumb drive of PDF's either on the floor or 'unattended at a table' probably don't have to stretch themselves to turning it into a torrent and sharing with their friends (and the rest of the universe). They'd probably baulk at something they considered as 'real theft' though.

So I suppose Paizo makes it as hard as they can to easily pirate the PDF's, hoping the average honest person will just stay honest, and only the really determined will pirate. That said if the pirates like the game and are used to playing it, there's every chance they will become actual customers from time to time too.

If they are 'that way inclined' they would never have bought the game in the first place (they are only going to play what they can get free) but once the hook is in and they have been able to play SOME material you now have a potential customer when what they want ISN'T out there 'for free'.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I don't think it sounds fishy either. It's impossible to tell without being party to the private discussion between paizo and the guy whose PDFs appeared inappropriately. I think the expectation that a publisher should presume innocence in the face of evidence of theft is unreasonable.


10 people marked this as a favorite.

Gah! Anyone who thinks file-sharing is "theft" is... how to put this gently... in need of further study on the case against intellectual property (Open Gaming License ringing any bells?).

Is file-sharing "illegal"? Yes, but that says more about the US legal system than it does about file-sharing. It's akin to Sauron accusing Frodo of "terrorism".


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

If it makes you feel better:

"I think the expectation that a publisher should presume innocence in the face of evidence of breach of the agreed terms and conditions is unreasonable."

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.

The whole "I was hacked" story doesn't hold much water; however, it is possible to lose control of your media files through file sharing software.

Several years ago, I downloaded a popular file-sharing program and installed it in order to download a patch for an MMO that was in torrent form (official patch servers were down). I started the download and went to bed. When I woke up, I discovered that over the course of the night I had uploaded about 10gb of files because the software automatically searched my hard drive for sharable media and allowed other users to download it. It wasn't just .mp3s. Lots of .pdfs, .docs, .xls, and the like were taken. Fortunately there was no banking or significant personal information stored on the computer, but I had a heart attack nonetheless.

I was really mad about it for a while, but I eventually concluded that I got what was coming to me for dabbling in that sort of thing.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
OscarMike wrote:

Gah! Anyone who thinks file-sharing is "theft" is...

Correct, it may not be a material thief but can be considered a theft of service.

No, not every copy is a lost sale.

And to say a person is totally responsible for protecting digital content is unreasonable. Are you responsible if someone steals your car and commits a crime with it?

It comes down to trust.
Do you trust Paizo to behave in an ethical and reasonable manor?

From my personal experience the answer is "yes".

If yours, or your friends, is not, then that is unfortunate.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

There's no "innocent until proven guilty" rule here, that's a criminal law thing. We're talking private law here, contracts between equal (in legal terms) parties.

If you enter a legally binding contract (of purchasing Paizo PDFs), you must be aware of all ramifications of that, including the fact that if those files with your watermark turn out anywhere in the Intardwebz (regardless if you uploaded them, or you got hacked, or you misclicked something in a torrent application) you are in trouble.

On the business side of things, you can't expect a company to carry out private investigations in every case to check how did those files turn up on the 'net. Paizo is a book publisher, not an insurance company. If things were otherwise, every such situation would end with a stalemate, because the person in question would claim that their super-intelligent welsh corgi uploaded the files while he/she was sleeping (true story, happened in one case of breaching NDA and company secrecy) and Paizo would be unable to verify that in any way.

You honestly expect that people actually liable for uploading files would respond to query from Paizo with "yeah, I did it, totally my fault, thanks for asking, here are backlogs of my torrent app and no hard feelings about locking out my PDFs here"? Gee, there's so much hope and trust in humanity out there after all...

And no, the "but I didn't know the rules said so" defense doesn't work since ancient Rome.


8 people marked this as a favorite.

wutisthisidonteven...

I didn't sign no stinking contract. I purchased a product. When I spend my money on someone's product it becomes my property. If not, I should be given my money back as no exchange has taken place.

If my computer gets hacked and Paizo thinks they can take me to court when MY property resurfaces on the net they better have a *real* good lawyer... and I mean Jack McCoy tier. Anything less is only going to cost them their (and my) litigation fees.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Gorbacz wrote:

There's no "innocent until proven guilty" rule here, that's a criminal law thing. We're talking private law here, contracts between equal (in legal terms) parties.

If you enter a legally binding contract (of purchasing Paizo PDFs), you must be aware of all ramifications of that, including the fact that if those files with your watermark turn out anywhere in the Intardwebz (regardless if you uploaded them, or you got hacked, or you misclicked something in a torrent application) you are in trouble.

On the business side of things, you can't expect a company to carry out private investigations in every case to check how did those files turn up on the 'net. Paizo is a book publisher, not an insurance company. If things were otherwise, every such situation would end with a stalemate, because the person in question would claim that their super-intelligent welsh corgi uploaded the files while he/she was sleeping (true story, happened in one case of breaching NDA and company secrecy) and Paizo would be unable to verify that in any way.

You honestly expect that people actually liable for uploading files would respond to query from Paizo with "yeah, I did it, totally my fault, thanks for asking, here are backlogs of my torrent app and no hard feelings about locking out my PDFs here"? Gee, there's so much hope and trust in humanity out there after all...

And no, the "but I didn't know the rules said so" defense doesn't work since ancient Rome.

When dealing with issues such as copying a pattern of 1s and 0s with intent to retain said copy, instead of deleting after a quick but arbitrary time on a digital storage device, so that Party B may view it on Party B's digital reading device, instead of just viewing it on Party A's digital reading deice I also, often, look to Ancient Rome for answers.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
OscarMike wrote:

wutisthisidonteven...

I didn't sign no stinking contract. I purchased a product. When I spend my money on someone's product it becomes my property. If not, I should be given my money back as no exchange has taken place.

If my computer gets hacked and Paizo thinks they can take me to court when MY property resurfaces on the net they better have a *real* good lawyer... and I mean Jack McCoy tier. Anything less is only going to cost them their (and my) litigation fees.

I find this disconcerting. Not but a few months ago I purchased some peppers from a large farming company. I enjoyed the peppers quite thoroughly, so I saved the seeds and germinated then planted them. I currently have a plant full of peppers growing in my backyard. I assumed this was legal, but what if buy buying the peppers I had unknowingly entered into a contract with the farmer that was legally binding? I might be okay though because I did not do anything as legally binding as clicking a button on a website... but pretty close.

Cayden Cailean help me for I have become a pepper pirate.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
OscarMike wrote:


If my computer gets hacked and Paizo thinks they can take me to court when MY property resurfaces on the net they better have a *real* good lawyer... and I mean Jack McCoy tier. Anything less is only going to cost them their (and my) litigation fees.

I don't believe litigation was ever mentioned, Paizo has merely declined doing business with the individual.

As is their, and anyone involved in voluntary transactions, choice.

Though it does raise an interesting point with the EU's recent decision that digital property is property and subject to first sale doctrine.

Of course it has a long way to go, and its not in America, but what happens if you re-sale a watermarked PDF.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
estergum wrote:
OscarMike wrote:

Gah! Anyone who thinks file-sharing is "theft" is...

Correct, it may not be a material thief but can be considered a theft of service.

No, not every copy is a lost sale.

And to say a person is totally responsible for protecting digital content is unreasonable. Are you responsible if someone steals your car and commits a crime with it?

It comes down to trust.
Do you trust Paizo to behave in an ethical and reasonable manor?

From my personal experience the answer is "yes".

If yours, or your friends, is not, then that is unfortunate.

Nah, Paizo's been awesome. Quality product cover to cover and I have yet to regret a single purchase. Luckily I don't think they're nearly as bad in the ethics department as their rabid fanbase, lol.

Silver Crusade

5 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
OscarMike wrote:

wutisthisidonteven...

I didn't sign no stinking contract. I purchased a product. When I spend my money on someone's product it becomes my property. If not, I should be given my money back as no exchange has taken place.

If my computer gets hacked and Paizo thinks they can take me to court when MY property resurfaces on the net they better have a *real* good lawyer... and I mean Jack McCoy tier. Anything less is only going to cost them their (and my) litigation fees.

You don't have to sign a contract to enter it. If you buy a lawnmower in a store, do you sign a contract? Nope. But you can return it if it's faulty, because you entered a contract of sale, and law (be it common or statutory in your case) says that in a contract of sale, the purchaser is entitled to return a faulty item he purchased (unless you're living in some sad corner of the world where that's not the case, that is).

You enter dozens of contracts daily, from purchasing a pack of cigarettes to riding a taxi.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
estergum wrote:
OscarMike wrote:


If my computer gets hacked and Paizo thinks they can take me to court when MY property resurfaces on the net they better have a *real* good lawyer... and I mean Jack McCoy tier. Anything less is only going to cost them their (and my) litigation fees.
I don't believe litigation was ever mentioned, Paizo has merely declined doing business with the individual.

I thought we were just spit-balling hypotheticals.

Quote:


As is their, and anyone involved in voluntary transactions, choice.

Sure.

Quote:

Though it does raise an interesting point with the EU's recent decision that digital property is property and subject to first sale doctrine.

Of course it has a long way to go, and its not in America, but what happens if you re-sale a watermarked PDF.

I couldn't tell you what kinda cheeky stuff the lawmakers are up to but I can tell you I don't buy into it. Property is scarce, binary isn't.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
OscarMike wrote:
Quality product cover to cover and I have yet to regret a single purchase.

I'm still really iffy on the GMG :p

The Exchange

2 people marked this as a favorite.
OscarMike wrote:

I didn't sign no stinking contract. I purchased a product. When I spend my money on someone's product it becomes my property. If not, I should be given my money back as no exchange has taken place.

Actually you purchased a limited license to use the PDF and print copies for personal use only, I believe.

OscarMike wrote:


If my computer gets hacked and Paizo thinks they can take me to court when MY property resurfaces on the net they better have a *real* good lawyer... and I mean Jack McCoy tier. Anything less is only going to cost them their (and my) litigation fees.

If they could prove that you were the uploader via tying the account to you by more than an IP address then they could not only take you to court, they would probably win.

As it is, all that Paizo have done (that I've heard of) is to refuse to enter into further sales to people whose PDFs have been illegally redistributed - which is a measured and proportional response.

Edit:

estergum wrote:
Though it does raise an interesting point with the EU's recent decision that digital property is property and subject to first sale doctrine.

Link please, if you have one to hand. I missed this and its important that I try and stay on top of these things as I work with both 'free' and commercial software.


Gorbacz wrote:
OscarMike wrote:

wutisthisidonteven...

I didn't sign no stinking contract. I purchased a product. When I spend my money on someone's product it becomes my property. If not, I should be given my money back as no exchange has taken place.

If my computer gets hacked and Paizo thinks they can take me to court when MY property resurfaces on the net they better have a *real* good lawyer... and I mean Jack McCoy tier. Anything less is only going to cost them their (and my) litigation fees.

You don't have to sign a contract to enter it. If you buy a lawnmower in a store, do you sign a contract? Nope. But you can return it if it's faulty, because you entered a contract of sale, and law (be it common or statutory in your case) says that in a contract of sale, the purchaser is entitled to return a faulty item he purchased (unless you're living in some sad corner of the world where that's not the case, that is).

You enter dozens of contracts daily, from purchasing a pack of cigarettes to riding a taxi.

I can show you proof of purchase of the faulty lawnmower. Can you show me my signature on any of these contracts I allegedly signed? ;)


Shifty wrote:
OscarMike wrote:
Quality product cover to cover and I have yet to regret a single purchase.
I'm still really iffy on the GMG :p

LOL! I haven't bought that one yet so that might explain it.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
OscarMike wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
OscarMike wrote:

wutisthisidonteven...

I didn't sign no stinking contract. I purchased a product. When I spend my money on someone's product it becomes my property. If not, I should be given my money back as no exchange has taken place.

If my computer gets hacked and Paizo thinks they can take me to court when MY property resurfaces on the net they better have a *real* good lawyer... and I mean Jack McCoy tier. Anything less is only going to cost them their (and my) litigation fees.

You don't have to sign a contract to enter it. If you buy a lawnmower in a store, do you sign a contract? Nope. But you can return it if it's faulty, because you entered a contract of sale, and law (be it common or statutory in your case) says that in a contract of sale, the purchaser is entitled to return a faulty item he purchased (unless you're living in some sad corner of the world where that's not the case, that is).

You enter dozens of contracts daily, from purchasing a pack of cigarettes to riding a taxi.

I can show you proof of purchase of the faulty lawnmower. Can you show me my signature on any of these contracts I allegedly signed? ;)

I believe that you missed the part where I wrote that you don't have to sign anything to enter a contract. Do you leave any signatures when buying a pack of cigarettes or when you enter a taxi?


OscarMike wrote:
Can you show me my signature on any of these contracts I allegedly signed? ;)

Umm... what part of

Gorbacz wrote:
You don't have to sign a contract to enter it.

do you need further elaboration on?

Edit: Darn. Ninja'ed by the grab bag.


Gorbacz wrote:
OscarMike wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
OscarMike wrote:

wutisthisidonteven...

I didn't sign no stinking contract. I purchased a product. When I spend my money on someone's product it becomes my property. If not, I should be given my money back as no exchange has taken place.

If my computer gets hacked and Paizo thinks they can take me to court when MY property resurfaces on the net they better have a *real* good lawyer... and I mean Jack McCoy tier. Anything less is only going to cost them their (and my) litigation fees.

You don't have to sign a contract to enter it. If you buy a lawnmower in a store, do you sign a contract? Nope. But you can return it if it's faulty, because you entered a contract of sale, and law (be it common or statutory in your case) says that in a contract of sale, the purchaser is entitled to return a faulty item he purchased (unless you're living in some sad corner of the world where that's not the case, that is).

You enter dozens of contracts daily, from purchasing a pack of cigarettes to riding a taxi.

I can show you proof of purchase of the faulty lawnmower. Can you show me my signature on any of these contracts I allegedly signed? ;)
I believe that you missed the part where I wrote that you don't have to sign anything to enter a contract. Do you leave any signatures when buying a pack of cigarettes or when you enter a taxi?

So lemme see if I got this straight... I can bound to contractual obligations I didn't sign or otherwise explicitly consent to? What other contracts am I signing without my knowledge and moreover why should I be bound to them if I feel as those the terms of this contract are unfair or have been violated in some way? I am confuse.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I think that in many of these case a friend gets the file and knows enough to upload it, but not enough to hide the identity of the buyer or know that he should.

I would assume in other cases it goes like this.
Buyer:I have the new Paizo PDF
Friend 1:I am kind of broke can I get it?
Buyer:Sure just don't let anyone else use it. I will get in big trouble
Friend 1:Ok, I promise.
Time passes.
Friend 1:I have this nice pdf.
Friend 2:Can I get it?
Friend 1:Sure, but don't let anyone else get it. I promised Buyer I would not let anyone else copy it.

The Cycle continues.

Alternate version of above incident.
Friend 1:Can I use you computer.
Buyer:Sure.
Friend 1:I see he has the new pdfs. He won't mind if I copy this to my USB drive.

The cycle continues in one form or another, and eventually someone puts it online.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
OscarMike wrote:
So lemme see if I got this straight... I can bound to contractual obligations I didn't sign or otherwise explicitly consent to?

Is that really a surprise to you? I mean I get that you dont agree with it, but I'm surprised you didnt know that was how things are.

1 to 50 of 671 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Paizo / General Discussion / Paizo Staff: Watermarked, Pirated PDFs - What to Do? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.