Just wondering if anyone else is finding this annoying. It annoys me when I am reading a PF AP and it states something along the lines of "refer to the Players Guide for info". Some of these are really necessary in order to run the AP. If it is that important to the AP, PLEASE include it in the AP, and dont force me to get a PDF that i dont want in order to get the full enjoyment out of the AP.
I have stated elsewhere that i am very anti-PDF and this is really starting to bother me. I cringe every time i see a reference to a Players Guide PDF.
If i could just purchase a copy of the Players Guide like they used to be in print form I would not have any problem with important info being solely in the Players Guide. The fact that the PDF is free is meaningless to me. Likewise if the info was in the Guide AND in the AP itself I would not have this problem.
Well, just curious if anyone else feels this way.
An AP is six books and lasts for a very long time. The player's guides are, what, 16 pages including cover? If you really hate having to refer to the PDF that much, why not just print them? If you don't have a printer, spend 15 minutes and $3 going to a Kinkos or whatever and printing it.
Do you have any examples?
Examples would be the caravan rules from Jade Regent, and the Shipboard Rules from Skull & Shackles. Now the caravan rules could be somewhat easily ignored and run without it, but from what i see so far(and i have only read the first 3 of skull and shackles) its pretty much necessary to use the shipboard rules to really run it as printed.
And as for printing the PDF's, i simply dislike have loose papers, and I dont think it should be necessary for me to go to the trouble of printing something that could have just been sold in print form or included in the AP itself. That essentially is my main argument, that if it is that intrinsic to running the AP it should be included in the AP.
And I will also admit that this has somewhat to do with my hatred of computers. Posting on here, and minimal computer work at my job are pretty much the extent of my capacity to interact with computers. And the last time i took a PDF i bought here to get copied at FedEx Kinkos, they would not print it for me since it did not say anywhere on the PDF that Paizo gave permission to print it ... at least nowhere that i could see, and the Kinkos employee looked as well and did not see the permission anywhere either.
Well, it's 2012. Computers are pretty popular. I imagine that if print runs of player's guides were big sellers, they would still be printed. But I personally buy almost everything in PDF now, and I am not alone. I think you might just have to bite the bullet on this one.
As to printing it, you can put the PDF on a thumb drive, plug the thumb drive directly into the copier, and have it print without a Kinkos employee ever being involved. You can also use one of their computers, download it from the website, and print it from the computer, again without involving an employee. Or you could ask one of your players to print it for you. This isn't a huge imposition, since it's sixteen pages across what must surely be at least six months of gameplay.
Finally, you can bind the papers yourself. A folder. A three-hole-binding folder. A binder. A stapler. Something. Your objection seems to be on principle rather than practicality, and while it's always good to stand on principle, I think you're going to find yourself standing alone on this one.
My answer to the poll and my personal opinion is that I want important information or mechanics that the players should know about during the game (like caravan rules, ship to ship combat, or kingdom building) to be in the Players Guide.
Of course, I would really like to be able to buy a pack of 5 players guides that are printed so I can hand them out to my players (much more likely to read them than sending them a link).
For my vote thought, bigger, better planned Players guide that actually have everything they need would be great. I am willing to pay for them and get them as a print product.j
If that is not an option, I am happy with the current level of inclusion in PDFs.
Sean
And I will also admit that this has somewhat to do with my hatred of computers. Posting on here, and minimal computer work at my job are pretty much the extent of my capacity to interact with computers. And the last time i took a PDF i bought here to get copied at FedEx Kinkos, they would not print it for me since it did not say anywhere on the PDF that Paizo gave permission to print it ... at least nowhere that i could see, and the Kinkos employee looked as well and did not see the permission anywhere either.
Firstly- let me say that while I don't necesasrily agree with the issue I do understand it. A relative of mine has basically been anti-computer since there have been computers to be anti-about.
So, here's my advice:
If an AP requires you to have something from the guide, then download the guide and find the relevant pages. Then print it from your own computer at home.
Then buy a simple braded folder and some of those plastic paper-holder things. Viola. You can probably keep *every single AP* worth of "rule sets" in player's guide in the same folder, to make it even easier.
It comes up maybe once or twice a year that it has to be done- and will come up alot less often now that the Dev's have said they are taking a break from "new rules" (at least if I've understood correctly) to accompany the AP's.
This way you 1) only jack with the ones you need, and 2) only print th couple of pages you want anyway and 3) have a handy place to keep 'em.
(and braded folders + clear plastic sleeves = awesome for character sheets and such anyway :) )
-S
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Well, just curious if anyone else feels this way.
Emphatic NO.
Can I print my PDF, or have it professionally printed?
You may print one copy of any Paizo PDF for personal use. Note that this only applies to products that list Paizo Publishing as the copyright holder—other publishers may have different policies; you'll need to contact them directly.
This is from the FAQ here. That should help with your professional printing problems.
My response to the poll: I like having something I can give to players that contains what they need to know, and player's guides are great for that. Some of my players prefer soft copy and others like paper, so a pdf is perfect for letting me cater to everyone.
tl;dr No, I'm not annoyed.
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Being stridently anti-computer and anti-PDF is not a crime nor is it presumptive evidence of a deep seated character flaw. The OP is entitled to like what he likes and hate what he hates.
Now, that said, the OP also has to appreciate that his view is so far out of the mainstream that it borders on being a kooky view by the standards of 2012. So while he is entitled to hold his anti-PDF viewpoint he should fully expect to be ignored by Paizo. Sorry dude - that's the way it goes.
This is from the FAQ here. That should help with your professional printing problems.Can I print my PDF, or have it professionally printed?
You may print one copy of any Paizo PDF for personal use. Note that this only applies to products that list Paizo Publishing as the copyright holder—other publishers may have different policies; you'll need to contact them directly.
That is an interesting surprise.
I prefer PDFs. But, I would have never guessed that printing two or three copies of a free player's guide would break the rules.
I wonder if the faq needs an update to permit printing multiple copies of free player's guides that aren't available in print???
That's my stapler, I want my stapler back. If I don't get my stapler back I'll burn down the whole office.
Awesome use of an Office Space quote. you sir, deserve a gold star:).
also i vote in favor of pdfs. their is nothing wrong with disliking computers, but this is the digital age after all. my only problem with the pdfs is, the people i play with never read them, so that can be frustrating but i deal with it.another point i'd like to make is for every book printed, a tree somewhere dies. save a tree and use the pdfs people!!!
tho i love books:)
just my one cent (after taxes)
I'm a savvy computer user, work in tech, etc.
I hate PDFs too. I wish the material were available in print.
And I can never get Kinkos employees to print my PDFs either, no matter what I show them.
No. I prefer for rules that the players need access to be in a book other than the one containing all of the GM-only info. IMO the Players' Guide is the appropriate location for such information, particularly since it makes those rules easier to access long after the 1st volume of the AP has come and gone. Also, if the rules are in a separate book from the AP, then I don't have to keep flipping back and forth, I can just leave both books open.
In terms of the printing issue, even though I'm a very tech-oriented GM, I can sympathize with not having a professional-quality printed copy. Loose papers get lost and stapling/binding are less than ideal. Even so, if it's not profitable for Paizo to sell printed copies of something that most people simply don't require a hardcopy of, then I don't want them going out-of-pocket over it.
The best solution I can think of would be if you can find a book that contains nothing but page-protector sheets. This scrapbook might fit the bill, but I'd have to get my hands on one to know for sure.
Chief Technical Officer
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I prefer PDFs. But, I would have never guessed that printing two or three copies of a free player's guide would break the rules.
One answer: We don't *really* care if you print a copy of a free Player's Guide for each person in your gaming group. We *do* care if you try to print copies of everything else you've ever bought for them. Adding a lot of exceptions to the FAQ, though, actually makes it more complicated, which makes it less useful.
Another answer: Frankly, we'd prefer that your players each get their own account and download their own copy anyway. (It's free, after all.) That helps us have a better understanding of the scope and other characteristics of our audience, and it also lets us notify them directly if we update the file for some reason.
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This is the first time I've ever seen someone moan that they want to pay for a free product.
Just wondering if anyone else is finding this annoying. It annoys me when I am reading a PF AP and it states something along the lines of "refer to the Players Guide for info". Some of these are really necessary in order to run the AP. If it is that important to the AP, PLEASE include it in the AP, and dont force me to get a PDF that i dont want in order to get the full enjoyment out of the AP.
I have stated elsewhere that i am very anti-PDF and this is really starting to bother me. I cringe every time i see a reference to a Players Guide PDF.
If i could just purchase a copy of the Players Guide like they used to be in print form I would not have any problem with important info being solely in the Players Guide. The fact that the PDF is free is meaningless to me. Likewise if the info was in the Guide AND in the AP itself I would not have this problem.
Well, just curious if anyone else feels this way.
It doesn't annoy me, but my preference is the same as yours. PDFs are almost valueless to me and print copies are worth way more than the market would bear. I found it disappointing when they began releasing these in electronic form only. Then again, I don't like phones without buttons either. >(
Hopefully print on demand will eventually come up to paizo's standards.
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Then again, I don't like phones without buttons either. >(
You would like my new PHONE then.....
-- david
Papa.DRB
I admit that I preferred having a physical copy of an AP Player's Guide. It was nice to be able to pass around. That said, I don't really begrudge Paizo opting not to print them and just giving away the PDFs for free. It's a sensible decision even if it doesn't match my preference.
And I really don't mind additional rule systems being in the PG. For rules that players should have access to that will be integral to the AP, it's the most appropriate place for them.
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I admit that I preferred having a physical copy of an AP Player's Guide.
Alongside my shiny new hardback Rise of the Runelords is the printed Player's Guide from the original release.
I ordered one from Paizo (to ship with my monthly subscription), but between the order being placed and fulfilled somebody else bought the last one they had in stock. I mentioned this in passing at one point, but thought no more about it. Then, a month or two later, I got a message out of the blue from somebody who thought they still had one somewhere, and asked if I was still interested. Indeed I was, and in about a week I had a well-looked-after copy in my hand. (Thanks again, if you're reading this thread)
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As for the OP question, no. Mostly cause it free's up information in the AP for more other stuff. Having the rules like caravans etc in the PG is a free bonus to me. Plus I can copy and paste it and hand out the relevant parts to the players. Since we don't use laptops or anything at the table when we play and having a single copy to hand around helps.
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Creative Director
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One of the big reasons we do the Players' Guides as free PDFs is because we can make them free. We did the first few in print and gave them out for free, but we were willing to take a loss on that because those first few were doing double-duty —not only were they players' guides to the Adventure Path, but they were introductions to Golarion. The more of those we got out there into folks' hands, the better!
Today, people know about Golarion, so the players' guides can focus entirely on the Adventure Path. And we WANT players to use these things, because that not only serves as a preview to the Adventure Paths and gets them excited about playing in the same way a movie trailer gets you excited about seeing a movie, but also because that helps you build a character that fits the Adventure Path's themes. Which, in theory, results in you having more fun playing that character, and thus means you enjoy the Adventure Path more. Adding a price to the guides would limit the number of players who would pick them up... and printing them would force us to charge for them.
That all said... we ARE kind of splitting the difference. While we won't be reprinting all of the info in a Player's Guide in our Player's Companion line, we WILL be reprinting the 2 most important pages in print. Check out the upcoming "Varisia: Birthplace of Legends" 32 page Player's Companion when it comes out in 2 weeks!
Then again, I don't like phones without buttons either. >(Buttons? Real phones have dials (or, for the luddites, a crank).
I thought that would be too much to ask for, but it turns out I was wrong...
Then again, I don't like phones without buttons either. >(You would like my new PHONE then.....
-- david
Papa.DRB
That is fantastic. :)