Unlike most understanding of Lovecraft, earthly gods are powerful within their domains.
|
In order to tap the high creativity of these forums, who is up for an exercise in making a community game setting?
While there is a high amount of creativity, it's very rare that design by committee will work without an overarching vision to set a unifying tone.
As the originator of this thread, I would challenge you to put a bit of definition on your goal... Give it a handle, a theme, give it a soul.
You're asking if I would provide the hooks, yes?
Well, if that's what you would like.
Hook 1: Balkanization. (roll: 00 -- Historical, 03 -- Balkanization)
Hook 2: Warfare. (roll: 71 -- Situation, 16 -- Warfare)
Hook 3: Crusade. (00 -- Historical, 05 -- Crusade)
Theme: The World of Tyrhennia is a world after a powerful Empire had fallen. What is left is a group of squabbling Kingdoms and Nation States. Some of which have banded together to partake in a Holy Crusade to free a Holy or Ethnic Land (or both) from an army of Evil Pagan Countries!
Theme 2: It's hundreds of years after a powerful Empire has fallen. Your nation state is being invaded by Barbarians from the North. They claim that you are heathen pagans and they want to take the land you are born in from you by the sword. Are you going to stand by and let that happen? Or are you going to take up arms and defend your land?
All of the hooks are generated randomly from the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons World Builder's Guidebook. What I got is something like the Crusades.
Real World Inspiration: Christians vs. Muslims (and the Christians got a bad press).
Possibilities:
Racial --
Humans vs. Orcs.
Humans vs. Elves.
Humans vs. insert race here.
European rip off kingdoms vs. Middle East rip off kingdoms.
Chinese rip off kingdoms vs. Korean or Japanese rip off kingdoms.
Religion 1 vs. Religion 2.
Ethnicity 1 vs. Ethnicity 2.
The Living vs. the Dead.
A combination of any of these.
We can start with a Continent like Europe and a part of a bigger Continent like Asia. We can divide it into kingdoms. Each designer is assigned a Kingdom. That Designer is to design his kingdom according to the theme and whether he is an attacking Kingdom sending an army of Knights, or a defending kingdom with Jannisaries and Turks. Or if he is neutral (like India and China), or caught in the middle (like Odessa and Armenia).
He is also to design the religious outlook of his nation and it's Culture and it's stake in the War. Perhaps they are led by a King like Richard the Lionhearted who is an Empire Builder (or simply just enjoys war). Or perhaps by a Holy Roman Emperor looking for Glory. Perhaps he is shrewd like Salah Al Din, or Saladin. You are also to create adventure hooks for your nation. And what would an adventurer from your nation would look like.
Recommended Reading:
AD&D Second Edition, Historical Reference -- the Crusades (I have a copy).
God Wills It! by W.B. Bartlett.
The Crusades: A Short History, by Johnathan Simon Chistopher Riley-Smith
The Crusades through Arab Eyes, by Amin Maalouf.
Soldiers of the Faith: Crusaders and Moslems at War by Ronald C. Finucane
Arab Historians of the Crusades (Islamic World) by Francesco Gabrieli
|
|
[Real World Inspiration: Christians vs. Muslims (and the Christians got a bad press).That's arguable, considering that good king Richard like many a God-Fearing Crusader, was fond of sealing Muslims and Jews in their temples, and and then setting the latter on fire.
Or that the Crusaders raided another Christian Empire, the Byzantines becoming willing tools of Venice's push for a monopoly on Mediterranean trade. The Lions in front of St.Peter's Basilica were loot from Constantinople. The Byzantines never recovered from that assault.
Or while Jews were being persecuted and burned across Christian Europe, Muslim countries were places where they found sanctuary, tolerance, and respect.
The bad press from today's eyes is pretty much deserved.
You have to remember, Salah al Din was guilty of some of the same atrocities. He killed all of the knights of the Second Crusade, for example. Although they re-evaluated Richard the First's monarchal history and some historians feel he was a particularly bad king. He didn't like England, he used England to bankroll his expedition, and his idea of a Honeymoon was a military expedition on the island of Cyprus. Richard the Lionhearted also built a beautiful castle in Normandy, and was wounded in a scuffle over buried treasure (maid Marion eventually poisoned him, though).
Richard the Lionhearted, however, got good spin from the Medieval Chroniclers, and the Victorians felt he was such a good king because he was an empire builder. However, I don't think he was a good king at all. After all, he left England in the hands of Longchamps, who was kicked out by his good for nothing brother -- Prince John. If Richard didn't go and looked after England as an Administrator, the Third Crusade would have been led by another glory seeker.
However, the Crusades were actually a good thing for Europe. Medieval ideas had kept Christendom mentally stuck on the idea that all there was for them was Europe. When they went on the expedition into that part of the Fertile Crescent, they had their minds enlarged. The Crusades, for that matter, a world enlarging experience for the Europeans. It resulted in the first Oligarchal Republic (Venice) coming to the forefront of the World Stage (Machievelli: the Prince is the best video game I've ever played). Marco Polo's expeditions to China was a result of the Crusades -- tracing the Silk Road.
Finally, Expeditions to America were also a result of the Crusades. So the Crusades were a good thing for Europe.
|
|
Actually the reason Prince John raised all those urksome taxes was to pay for Richard's ransom after the latter got captured by al Din's troops. So it's actually John who got the at least partially undeserved bad press of the time.
However in order to get the support for that tax collection, John had to sign the first document to limit the powers of the monarchy, the Magna Carta, forerunner for much more to come.
Well, the cost of the Ransom was about one hundred thousand pounds sterling. Which was more than the Royal Treasury had for five years. Leopold of Austria was one greedy Holy Roman Emperor.
Everyone is awful.
When I said earthlike, I didn't mean historically accurate.
Magic, magic creatures, and other supernatural things would have drastically changed history.
I answered that survey, and I wanted to select "Gods settle their differences by mortal proxy." I chose meddlesome by default.
|
|
When I said earthlike, I didn't mean historically accurate.
Magic, magic creatures, and other supernatural things would have drastically changed history.
I answered that survey, and I wanted to select "Gods settle their differences by mortal proxy." I chose meddlesome by default.
That would come under indirect.
|
|
-------------------------------------------
The Pantheon will be, on the whole, Meddlesome. Each pantheon will be designed according to the Designer's needs for their kingdom. There will be two major nations that won't be designed by an individual designer, to accommodate the winning results. They will be designed by all of us, together.
Now, we have to decide how many gods should be in our pantheon for these two nations. This board will accept nominations for the size of the major Pantheon(s). Give a size of the pantheon you want, and include sell text as to why it should be this size.
I'd say some number, like seven or twelve (like the twelve Olympians) for the main Gods and then a large, indeterminate number of minor ones. We don't need to pin down the exact number of deities really. Just detail the core pantheon and then any deities we feel the need for as we detail the world.
My vote goes to twelve.
Nine.
Greg
12 and a half.
Actually I'm mostly just dotting, but I like the idea of a few bastard gods running around (Hercules, Achilles, etc.). If the gods are approachable, former humans, then they should have a few flaws of their own; a randy Zeus-type deity could be an interesting addition to whatever pantheon we settle on and having half-gods on earth would bring mortals in general closer to the gods.
I might be getting ahead of myself but I have a couple of other concepts for deities as well...
I just really like the idea of a Pantheon with an odd number of deities. Two fractuous factions and a leader. Leader maybe powerful enough to win against any other god singlehandedly...but cannot handle any two. ( sort of like Poet from Rising Stars)
Perhaps a female goddess, with a spouse in one faction...but a lover in the other faction.
Greg
If it is a pantheon, does the number really matter? Of course there has to be certain major gods, but how specific does this need to be? We could start by making "the big seven" (or however many) and then add more to taste.
I think twelve major gods would resemble the Dodekatheon from Greek mythology, so (if we're picking numbers) we should try something different.
Also worth considering is the purpose of these gods (did they create the world or are they simply protecting it?) and how they interact with and view each other (are they all "family", do they bicker or loath one another, are they tied together by obligation?).
If it is a pantheon, does the number really matter? Of course there has to be certain major gods, but how specific does this need to be? We could start by making "the big seven" (or however many) and then add more to taste.
Congratulations, you are now the deity of gaming freedom!
You could give the humans the standard pantheon. Now give the non humans smaller pantheons, much more alien and focused on the race's interests.
Each animal type should have an animal deity representative of their group soul. While Bast is goddess of all cats, there are sub dieties of housecats, lions, Umbra(The god of panthers and displacer beasts), and so on. Intelligent animals will worship their diety instead of being an extension of them.
Congratulations, you are now the deity of gaming freedom!
Yay me! On the first day I created Calvinball.
My suggestion:
The overgods created the universe, all the stars, planets and major planes. They get caught up in their primary objectives and create lesser gods to run the little stuff. These first gods screw things up (insert bad stuff here) and a new group of gods has to step in a fix things (wherever it is they came from).
So, the overgods are locked in some stalemate and aren't too interested in worshipers. The old gods are imprisoned/dead/lost/waiting. The new gods are meddling with the world(s) still trying to "fix" things.
Good suggestion, MagiMaster.
It's fairly cliche, but it provides a good reason for a variety of things to exist. It needs a few more details to set it apart from other settings and mythologies with similar premises.
I say thirteen, because I like the idea of twelve "official" or recognized deities and a forbidden, forgotten, or insane misfit.
I voted 12...I always really liked the Dragonlance arrangement.
3 over gods that epitomize the respective alignments and then a small host of lesser gods that fall in underneath them as patrons of the various clerical domains.
Personally, I think the gods should focus less on alignment and more on their personal portfolios. Let the mortals interpret them however they wish too; one group will see the god of war as a bloodthirsty savage, while others will see him as an honorable soldier god.
I voted for 13, though I think there should be dozens of lesser gods as well.
Personally, I think the gods should focus less on alignment and more on their personal portfolios. Let the mortals interpret them however they wish too; one group will see the god of war as a bloodthirsty savage, while others will see him as an honorable soldier god.
A god can be different things in different pantheons. The deity of magic heads the Elf pantheon, but the war god leads the orc pantheon. The goddess of spiders is a less evil being than her Drow aspect. Some bug exterminators honor the spider queen.
|
|
Okay, further rules.
1. We are going to decide on Dominate and Major Races on the Continent. Then each designer will decide on the races for his nation, this includes minor races. Races for your nation can be decided randomly or by fiat, it's your nation. You may draw inspiration from the Advanced Race Guide.
2. Everything seems to be weighted towards the Baker's Dozen on Gods, but the poll will be up until Friday when I announce the results. Please note that Eberron has a Baker's Dozen as a theme.
3. We need to decide what portfolios the Gods will have. As we are working out the nations, we can have our individual nation's culture decide how they are going to believe in them. Note: Rhadoum is an example of a dystheistic society from Golarion/the Inner Sea. So it's even possible to design a nation that is Dystheistic and/or Misothiestic in outlook.
4. Since it looks like we are going to have a large pantheon, the roles of the Gods can't be decided by a vote. Everyone who is participating may design a god(dess) and submit him or her to the thread. Start thinking up portfolios. Read Deities and Demigods for 3rd Edition if you have a copy, the World Builder's Handbook has more possibilities.
I'll submit mine last. :)
Remember: The Theme is built around a Crusade or Crusades participated by nations that resulted after the disintegration of an old Empire. The time period might not resemble the 10th-13th Centuries A.D. Just that most fantasy stories resemble a pseudo-Medieval world.
We will need to assign a committee of up to 3 designers to design how the world is created. However, we will all decide how many planets in the solar system there is by vote. The history of our world will be designed by committees too, however Major events will decided by a Vote.
The History of the World will be divided into:
-- Prehistory.
-- Ancient.
-- Middle Period.
-- Recent.
Prehistory is the most important part of the History. This is where a culture's creation myth usually comes from. Whether the creation myth is actual, Allegoric, or Symbolic (i.e. the Gods divided the World for the Races -- the Dwarves got the mountains, Elves the forests, Halflings the glens, the Gnomes the rocky outcroppings, and the humans Deserts, Valleys, and Plains -- but the Orcs have a mandate to conquer).
Ancient will cover the Bronze Age, while the Middle Period covers the Iron Age. Recent history covers history from the fall of the Empire up to the Crusades.
Are we only focusing on the main (European) area and their pantheon right now? What is the nature of the crusade? Do the "infidels," or whoever they are fighting, have a completely different religion (monotheism, animism, etc.), or is it merely an offshoot with a few significant differences?
Can we offer suggestions for other cultures or races, or does pretty much everyone on the continent worship the same gods?
A god can be different things in different pantheons. The deity of magic heads the Elf pantheon, but the war god leads the orc pantheon. The goddess of spiders is a less evil being than her Drow aspect. Some bug exterminators honor the spider queen.
I agree; I was suggesting that we keep the gods' alignments ambiguous and let the mortals decide what is good and evil based on their culture and how they view the gods.
I once created a pantheon of racial deities, and could post them here if you think that would help.
As for a hook, perhaps it is a world where one section has been inhabited for thousands of years. Suddenly something happens and new and strange areas of reality have suddenly opened up, creating an age of exploration?
|
|
My suggestion for the gods is this.
One pantheon. Given the size of pantheons considered, a raft of pantheons would make this world more diety crowded than the Forgotten Realms.
Gods have no alignment. Their clerics would be of any alignment, venerating particular aspects of the diety. The Shining God can be venerated by Lawful Good clerics who worship his Honor, and by Chaotic Evil clerics who venerate his aspect of Vengeful Curses. The two groups don't necessarily get along or worship in the same temples.
That's exactly what I was thinking. One pantheon, many different interpretations. They may even have different names.
|
|
I once created a pantheon of racial deities, and could post them here if you think that would help.
As for a hook, perhaps it is a world where one section has been inhabited for thousands of years. Suddenly something happens and new and strange areas of reality have suddenly opened up, creating an age of exploration?
Interesting. But the theme is Crusade. After the Crusade, we can designate areas for expansion and exploration.
Interesting. But the theme is Crusade. After the Crusade, we can designate areas for expansion and exploration.
I think I missed the section on where this was decided. Is there some single form like a wiki for ideas once they've been cemented?
The Crusades could tie in to it, perhaps there is some mystical artifact or similar that gets destroyed by accident or on purpose that opens new areas previously unexplored thanks to its influence?
|
|
New poll is up for the shape and size of our world. You may vote twice, once for the shape and once for the size.
As for a website, we need to nominate a scribe to record all of this down on a website. To answer your question, I decided the hooks by random chance, Indagare. It was the only way to be fair.
New poll is up for the shape and size of our world. You may vote twice, once for the shape and once for the size.
As for a website, we need to nominate a scribe to record all of this down on a website. To answer your question, I decided the hooks by random chance, Indagare. It was the only way to be fair.
It's cool. I foresee one issue with the new poll - you allow for an irregularly shaped world, but all the sizes are in diameters. If, for instance, we wanted a world that literally branched out like a tree, what would the diameter be?
|
|
It's cool. I foresee one issue with the new poll - you allow for an irregularly shaped world, but all the sizes are in diameters. If, for instance, we wanted a world that literally branched out like a tree, what would the diameter be?New poll is up for the shape and size of our world. You may vote twice, once for the shape and once for the size.
As for a website, we need to nominate a scribe to record all of this down on a website. To answer your question, I decided the hooks by random chance, Indagare. It was the only way to be fair.
I do not know.
Should there be unusual flora and fauna here? I once read through a game where some of the flora grew gems or had metal-gilded leaves. Similarly there were some animals that had plant-like aspects to them.