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Alright so as a player i just did a game where i played a monk of many styles and a lore warden. My stats were as followed
25 Point buy with a +2dex and +2INT (homebrew race)
monk 2 / Fighter 2
10 STR
19 DEX
14 CON
18 INT
10 WIs
10 CHA
My feats were
level 1 - Dodge
Monk 1 - Crane Style
Monk 2 - Crane Wing
Level 3 - Weapon finesse
Fighter bonus 1 - Dervish dance
Fighter bonus 2 - Weapon Focus Scimitar
Lore warden - combat expertise
Monk Free- Improved unarmed Strike
Anyways, The monk of many styles archetype says that you can take any style feat, even if you dont meet the prereqs, and the next feat as well at level 2 if you want to. so my round went like this
+1 scimitar +6 1d6+5
AC = 5 (mitheral +1 Chainshirt) +4DEX +1dodge +4(fighting defensively with 3 Acrobatics and +1 from Crane style) +1(Combat Expertise) = 25 on a normal round. With a automatic deflection of one melee weapon attack. Anyways my question is, is this too powerful as a level 4? my DM sent a cave Giant at me (CR6) and was only able to hit me once before it died (like 3 rounds of solo combat before my party got there). Any mistakes i made or anything? Too cheesy.
Thoughts?
10 = 0
16 +2 +1(level 4) = 10
14 = 5
16 +2 = 10
10
10
10
=25
uh mithral fullplate is 10.5k, much more then the 2200 of chain shirt. im not asking how to add more AC.
That also wasnt the question. I solo'd it for 3 rounds before my party got there and helped me kill it. I did total like...35 damage (i crit twice)
My DM's Problem was that i could deflect one of his attacks every round. His +12 had a decent chance oh hit, which i could just negate, while his +7 didnt really have much of one.
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If you can deflect one attack, but your character deals small damage with small to hit chance it's OK, because your character build is purely defensive and sacrificed most of his offensive ability to get there. It won't help you much if you're attacked by multiple foes, or if the situation calls upon you to be the damage dealer, because you're simply suboptimal for it.
Now, if you were able to deal damage rivaling a full BAB damage-spec class AND have ability to deflect, that could be an issue... but it's not.
Monks are the weakest class in the game. Anything that actually makes them worthwhile is good.
This ability is not OP at all. With 25 point buy a paladin, fighter, barbarian or ranger could have done 35 points of damage over 3 round without relying on a crit, and I am sure the paladin of fighter would have enough AC to avoid the attacks also.
PS:Since crits are rare you they are pretty much corner cases. With your +6 to hit you are not much of a threat to the giant either.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Your GM could have had him sunder your sword then grapple you. Once grappled, the giant could just make grapple checks to hurt you.
The biggest thing with a build like this is your character quickly becomes uninteresting. He's impossible to hit, but doesn't deal much damage... you are almost always going to be surrounded by more dangerous characters who are also easier to hit, which make them more appealing targets.
Crane style is not overpowered.
It is a nice, defensive option but there are others.
Snake style for example can be strong, too.
If you build a pc with DR you can make enemies with lots of weak attacks irrelevant but it doesn't help much against opponents with few strong attacks.
The contrary is true for crane style.
Strong vs. a T-Rex, weak vs. a flurring monk or a beast with many natural attacks.
I'd imagine that slowly and painfully crushing their opponents would be a preferred tactic.
They are not that dumb. If they are smart enough to have a weapon they are smart enough to use it. Mental scores of 6 are not as bad as people make them out to be. It is still good enough to have a functioning society, and deal with basic common sense issues, such as knowing that axes do more damage than fist.
It's not about being dumb. It's about being cruel.
You said they were evil and dumb as if that was the qualifying reason.
If a giant can catch a single humanoid alone they might player around with it before they kill it, but if outnumbered, and if the intended victim has weapons, I don't see them trying to be cruel if their life is on the line.
Yes it is better. When you type online I only know what you type, since I can't read body language.
Once again, they are not that dumb, unless they don't think swords can hurt them. In short you post made it sound like a normal tactic, when it would not be. Is it possible that there is a cave giant that dumb? Sure. Is it going to be a common thing? No, it is not a preferred tactic when dealing with PC's. Yeah I know there are commoners, but that is the type of thing that happens off screen and we are clearly discussing PC's.
As for groups of giants that was handled when I mentioned a giant being outnumbered as the giant was in the OP's post. I specifically listed the giant as being alone for that reason. If a giant has backup he might be more likely to take foolish actions, if he things the other giants will help him, if he gets into trouble.
I won't be surprised unless the GM downplays their intelligence.
As an example races that have an inherent -2 to a stat will have a 6 in that stat 16.6 percent of the time assuming stats are evenly distributed. If a 6 was a as crippling as people try to make it out to be then having a that large of a percentage of your population to be almost nonfunctional with regard to any stat would cause issues.
Dwarves would have a lot of trouble dealing with each other, and other races, as an example, due to their -2 in charisma.
In case you are wandering what I am talking about NPC's use the basic stat array unless they have levels in PC's classes.
13, 12, 11, 10, 9, and 8.<----NPC stat array
If a race had a -2 modifier to intelligence or wisdom they would make just as many bad decision as those giants, if a 6 was really that bad.*
Even hill giants who also have an intelligence of 6 don't engage in battles if they are not sure they will win. It should be no secret that little people, from a giant's point of view, with sharp things and magic can kill you.
*Not for every member of the race, but a large portion.
Sorry, but where did I say that 6 Int = retard?
I never said, that it was said. :)
You did say their intelligence(dumbness) was a factor in bad decision making.
I am only saying, that on average, they are not that dumb.
Getting into a fight when you are outnumbered is one thing, but not taking the opponents seriously is just another level of bad decision making...
Playstyle aside, they are not that dumb then. :)
He might not have had any help. As annoyed as the GM seems to have been backup more than likely would have shown up.
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I used to have all of my bad guys fight to the death. A lot of GM's do, but one day I realized that it does not make sense. Most people and even animals will break away from a fight, after taking too much punishment.
I used to have all of my bad guys fight to the death. A lot of GM's do, but one day I realized that it does not make sense. Most people and even animals will break away from a fight, after taking too much punishment.
Animals in particular will unless you're really on their turf or they can't. Sure it may be hungry and you may look tasty, but a few wounds would be more than enough to make it clear that there are easier pickings elsewhere.
I used to have all of my bad guys fight to the death. A lot of GM's do, but one day I realized that it does not make sense. Most people and even animals will break away from a fight, after taking too much punishment.
Gonna +1 this. I've even had a Player route turn into a player death situation because one enemy ran and a player was dumb enough to run after it alone.
I used to have all of my bad guys fight to the death. A lot of GM's do, but one day I realized that it does not make sense. Most people and even animals will break away from a fight, after taking too much punishment.Animals in particular will unless you're really on their turf or they can't. Sure it may be hungry and you may look tasty, but a few wounds would be more than enough to make it clear that there are easier pickings elsewhere.
That is what I meant. If they are defending their young, sometimes food, of something else that is really important they might not back off, but if you are a meal or you passing through they tend to back off, or not even fight if another animal is a lot bigger at times.
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I've had a lot of experience with Crane style this campaign, and have chimed in whenever a thread on Crane style shows up (fairly often).
Crane style is not overpowered. Crane style is just frustrating. Crane style makes the monk incredibly hard to hit, and can effectively negate the offensive abilities of one shot monsters, monsters charging, monsters using vital strike. It forces the GM to rethink encounters, using more ranged attacks, magic, and multi-attack creatures. Generally monks are still squishy, so a full attack from a hydra will do a lot of damage, as will a couple of scorching rays. It can still ruin a GM's day when he sees a cool monster of appropriate CR in the Bestiary that he'd love to use, but knows he'd just be feeding it to the party because of a Crane style monk.
I've had a lot of experience with Crane style this campaign, and have chimed in whenever a thread on Crane style shows up (fairly often).
Crane style is not overpowered. Crane style is just frustrating. Crane style makes the monk incredibly hard to hit, and can effectively negate the offensive abilities of one shot monsters, monsters charging, monsters using vital strike. It forces the GM to rethink encounters, using more ranged attacks, magic, and multi-attack creatures. Generally monks are still squishy, so a full attack from a hydra will do a lot of damage, as will a couple of scorching rays. It can still ruin a GM's day when he sees a cool monster of appropriate CR in the Bestiary that he'd love to use, but knows he'd just be feeding it to the party because of a Crane style monk.
Why not just use the awesome critter and have it punch someone else? Like the wizard or cleric or bard or whatever?
One, two rounds at most of a creature not getting a smack in edgewise due to character A deflecting the attacks and most creatures are going to redirect their attacks to something they can hurt. That, or they'll just run away.Crane style is awesome for the first round or maybe two of a combat. After that, the monk better have another stick to play with because "swing at me when you can't possibly hit me" will have been played out.
-S
Crane style is not overpowered. Crane style is just frustrating. Crane style makes the monk incredibly hard to hit, and can effectively negate the offensive abilities of one shot monsters, monsters charging, monsters using vital strike. It forces the GM to rethink encounters, using more ranged attacks, magic, and multi-attack creatures. Generally monks are still squishy, so a full attack from a hydra will do a lot of damage, as will a couple of scorching rays. It can still ruin a GM's day when he sees a cool monster of appropriate CR in the Bestiary that he'd love to use, but knows he'd just be feeding it to the party because of a Crane style monk.
Yes, and Crane Style doesn't help the monk actually hit the enemy.
In one Monk thread a build with this feat tree can survive many things, but actually does very little to help the party. He simply can't hit much with a decent AC, especially if using Crane Style. In half of our postulated encounters the monk was ineffective at anything save living through the attack and running away.
In short, it's good for the monk not getting hit and that's it. If the enemy ignore the monk, then the monk can't do much.
In this thread, we learn that Crane Style is good against individual opponents with single attack routines.
this.
Higher level or more than one attack/opponent and it starts to lose it's luster. Crane style is not any better than Deflect Arrows as a defensive ability.It allows you to stand longer but isn't the be all end all...
It's a very nice perk but easy to get around.
In this example you are just lucky the Giant didn't grapple you. You are 1 less in CMD than you are in AC and the you can only deflect Melee Attacks so the grapple can get you. Once grappled you can't use Crane Wing anymore.
Also Crane Wing only applies to Melee Attacks. So that leaves the other attack like Ranged for example open to use.
How is switching to Grapple a meta game?
If you've ever been in a real fight (doubtful), if one thing ain't working, you switch up.
If some punk is all bouncy and jumpy.. tackle him to the ground and pummel him. Fighting a boxer toe to toe ain't bright but wrestle him a little and ground and pound.
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If someone is deflecting every punch you throw at him you have no reason to think he can't do the same when you try to grab ahold of him. You can try it, but if you're trying it because Crane Style does not apply to maneuver checks, that's metagaming.
Arkham Horror is a good example. If you base your choices off of the monsters stats rather than what they are, that's the metagame.
The biggest thing with a build like this is your character quickly becomes uninteresting. [..]
Crane style is not overpowered. Crane style is just frustrating.
That pretty much sums up my opinion on the issue. Whether it's overpowered or not probably depends on how much melee you have in your campaign, but it sounds pretty tedious.
I can't wait for Beholder Style, where you get to ignore the first magical effect used on you each round.
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The biggest thing with a build like this is your character quickly becomes uninteresting. [..]Crane style is not overpowered. Crane style is just frustrating.That pretty much sums up my opinion on the issue. Whether it's overpowered or not probably depends on how much melee you have in your campaign, but it sounds pretty tedious.
I can't wait for Beholder Style, where you get to ignore the first magical effect used on you each round.
You mean, Eye of the Deep Style? ;-)
If someone is deflecting every punch you throw at him you have no reason to think he can't do the same when you try to grab ahold of him. You can try it, but if you're trying it because Crane Style does not apply to maneuver checks, that's metagaming.
Arkham Horror is a good example. If you base your choices off of the monsters stats rather than what they are, that's the metagame.
Punching is an entirely different thing than grabbing. When you can't land a punch, the logical thing to do is take them down. Moving your entire body out of the way is WAY more difficult than sidestepping a punch. Watch some MMA and you'll get the idea. Ground and pound is a perfectly acceptable way to get in on a good boxer. You might not know that the guy has Crane Style but you are pretty sure your punches are doing nothing...
Change it up.