No problem and no problem with you asking. Sometimes they do get missed. I'm still mulling over crafting.
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Not to throw a monkey wrench into the debate as I haven't crunched the numbers, but wouldn't it be better for basic checks (ie, ones crew can take ten on) to Thrace them work independently instead of aid you and just giving a plus two to your check? Will number crunch later after I get my kid to sleep.
I'm not sure - my long term concern was really about "Ship Building".
Right now - most of what comes in the add on goes specifically under the purview of "Craft: Ships" - but the cost is ridiculous.
If we wanted to make our own ship from scratch - base price is 10,000 (or really 100,000 Silver Pieces).
If we had twenty lads working on the project together, and they each nailed a +2 - that would be a +40.
If my skills as the "Chief Carpenter/Shipwright" were being employed via a flat roll - and I had a +10 base - there is a good probability that I could nail a base 20 easily.
With the additional +40 on top of my roll - the total modifier would be roughly a 60 x X.
In this case, if we translated the cost of a ship into a DC base of 30 - if we elected to up the DC with "Accelerate Crafting" twice - we up the DC to 50.
That means in one week that 20 men under a strained shipwright would have just finished 300 GP only.
That would mean to create a ship from scratch would take (roughly) 32-36 weeks - or 8 to 9 months from the day we laid keel; which isn't bad. If we had twice the men - it would take less time, of course; as if we had another 10 men we could up the DC by another +10 and have a total of 80x60 - or 480 GP a week - meaning we could have a new ship built from scratch in less then twenty weeks - barely five months.
Again - all of this is factoring largely on the fact that the majority of the improvements are designed around a crafting roll of "Craft: Ships". I am fully prepared to waste skill points in that skill to help the group - but only if I believe it can actually make a difference.
Of course - this is for the time that we eventually get our own ship. I don't know if that will happen - but I am hoping it does; and not one we buy/pirate - but one we can make.
Quick note for everyone. As the holidays are coming up and people are travelling and seeing family and such, posting will be sporadic to say the least. I know for a fact that I will be unable to post starting midday friday until after christmas other than the occasional quick post check in due to the fact that i will be at the inlaws who have satellite internet (which is ridiculous I know, I feel like I am stepping back in time everytime I go there lol) Basically I am going to be very lax on posting requirements until after the holidays are over. Please make sure to check in as you can though. Let me know if you have any questions and Happy Holidays everyone!
Quick note for everyone. As the holidays are coming up and people are travelling and seeing family and such, posting will be sporadic to say the least. I know for a fact that I will be unable to post starting midday friday until after christmas other than the occasional quick post check in due to the fact that i will be at the inlaws who have satellite internet (which is ridiculous I know, I feel like I am stepping back in time everytime I go there lol) Basically I am going to be very lax on posting requirements until after the holidays are over. Please make sure to check in as you can though. Let me know if you have any questions and Happy Holidays everyone!
Ahoy! I sent you a PM.
Well, I'm off to work. I was wondering, when I come home if this duel is still going on, is there any way we could do some sort of split-party side quest thing? I mean, I know Variel is doing the duel, but if some of us want to go off into the land and explore it while we're waiting for this thing to resolve, would that be okay?
Not trying to cause confusion with a split party, I'm just looking for something to do.
Okay, see you all later tonight!
Man, I wish I would have thought about the ship jobs a bit more. I would have submitted a Siege Mage. Drats, lol.
Man, I wish I would have thought about the ship jobs a bit more. I would have submitted a Siege Mage. Drats, lol.
What is a "Siege Mage"? Is that an archtype, or something worth multi-classing to? If it is, I may consider it as I have no issues with multi-classing ;)
Archetype of Wizard. It appeared in UC. I have been wanting to play one for a while, but it is a very specialized type of character as siege engines are not that common. But here aboard a ship with cannon, he would have worked. Especially as a gnome.
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Yeah immortal that was my fault, I didn't refresh the map and posted based on description. Once the map reloaded I noticed that it was too far away and did a quick edit. Your just too quick this time.
FYI, if you want to roll the image save for me go ahead. Keeps the game going and prevents it from bogging down. I always go with a 1 hits and anything else is images. If you want me to roll I will.
I'm having trouble connecting to Paizo - took me 3 hours go get this far. I will try to get onto the gameplay thread now... if this post even goes through that is. If the critter is still alive, Seijiro will continue his rescue efforts and begin to sing when he can to inspire those fighting.
Yeah this has been ridiculous so it's not just you Seijiro.
Oh, man! I jsut went from the game to the discussion and it only took a few seconds!!!
could it be fixed???
[Edit] Nope, load times are still p00p. oh well.
It looks like we're back!
yay!
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Just posting for futures reference for spreadsheet total purchass
Supplies 1000gp
Recommendations for the ship:
1. Four doses of Healy Myrrh – 25 GP a piece; 100 GP
2. Four pouches of Air Crystals – 50 GP a piece; 200 GP
3.Two sets of Masterwork Artisan Ship Builder’s Tools: 110 GP
4. Ten sets of Artisan Ship Builders Tools: 50 GP
Total 460
Shopping list:
1. Masterwork Artisan Carpentry Tools: 55 GP
2. Masterwork Artisan Ship Builder’s Tools: 55 GP
3. Alchemist Kit: 25 GP
4. Healers Kit refill: 50 GP
5. Bedroll: 1 SP
6. Compass: 10 GP
7. 50 feet of Hemp Rope: 1 GP
8. Medium Treasure Chest: 6 GP – 4 Cubic Feet
9. Simple Lock: 20 GP (open with Disable Device – DC 20)
10. Cooking Kit 1 GP
11. Smelling Salts – 25 GP
12. Tobacco – 2 lbs. – 1 GP
13. Hot Weather Outfit – 8 GP
14. Cold Weather Outfit – 8 GP
Gunsmith Supplies: 100 GP
Total: 365 GP
Just posting for futures reference for spreadsheet total purchass
Supplies 1000gp
Recommendations for the ship:
1. Four doses of Healy Myrrh – 25 GP a piece; 100 GP
2. Four pouches of Air Crystals – 50 GP a piece; 200 GP
3.Two sets of Masterwork Artisan Ship Builder’s Tools: 110 GP
4. Ten sets of Artisan Ship Builders Tools: 50 GP
Total 460Shopping list:
1. Masterwork Artisan Carpentry Tools: 55 GP
2. Masterwork Artisan Ship Builder’s Tools: 55 GP
3. Alchemist Kit: 25 GP
4. Healers Kit refill: 50 GP
5. Bedroll: 1 SP
6. Compass: 10 GP
7. 50 feet of Hemp Rope: 1 GP
8. Medium Treasure Chest: 6 GP – 4 Cubic Feet
9. Simple Lock: 20 GP (open with Disable Device – DC 20)
10. Cooking Kit 1 GP
11. Smelling Salts – 25 GP
12. Tobacco – 2 lbs. – 1 GP
13. Hot Weather Outfit – 8 GP
14. Cold Weather Outfit – 8 GP
Gunsmith Supplies: 100 GP
Total: 365 GP
The recommendations were not confirmed, just recommended, that's up to you guys if you decide on them. The rest were just my own personal effects.
Were personal effects something that needed to be tracked? If so, I will be more clear on them in the future. Just let me know your preference.
Thank you :)
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Then only reason i am keeping track rightnow is the village has a 2500 gp limit for items/goods. Once everyone is done with personal shopping I was hoping to use the remainder of the towns resources to buy repair material and such for the ship. Would hate to get in a fight and our sails damamged without any way of repairing them.
Hey everyone! Started traveling so will be hit or miss the next few days. Will try to post at least a couple of times. Happy holidays!
Then only reason i am keeping track rightnow is the village has a 2500 gp limit for items/goods. Once everyone is done with personal shopping I was hoping to use the remainder of the towns resources to buy repair material and such for the ship. Would hate to get in a fight and our sails damamged without any way of repairing them.
Well, regarding "person effects" - I had already asked the GM about those, if I could buy them without causing havoc with the town's low economic ceiling. He suggested that was fine.
It seems reasonable to assume (for example) that the town has at least multiple sets of warm weather clothes, some seamen's lockers/chests, or (especially in this type of town) multiple sets of shipbuilders tools and carpentry tools without it compromising the towns economic capacity.
At least, that is what he told me earlier when I bought the gear. I suppose that a cooking kit, or tobacco - if it is a problem for the total town limit of GP - I can easily forgo it, though. But I was led to believe the list I made wouldn't be a problem. But it is possible I misunderstood. So I guess we'll just have to wait for the GM. As of now, though I believe he suggested the town's "purchase limit" wouldn't matter to mundane/non-magical goods. But I may have misunderstood his messages. I guess we'll see when he gets back.
I think the GM didn't mean that they didn't need to be counted, but rather those items are so cheap and the value so insignificant that it realy won't make an appreciabel difference in what we can buy.
And i can make a dip check to haggle and pretty much negate those costs, i'll wager =P
Hey, if we get much supplies, then we may not have the cash for picking up crafting supplies, and may need to make for another port to get that stuff. I'd need all of the value of the town in crafting gear and still not be able to make everyone's orders. So if we try to do a job on the way to port, we'll be able to cash in loot at a larger port where I can get my stock. We may want to avoid Peril cause Harrigan was heading there.
GM: what would we need to do to figure out where other ports are? Checks, looking at maps, asking the locals, all of the above to come up with where would be good to go?
I think the GM didn't mean that they didn't need to be counted, but rather those items are so cheap and the value so insignificant that it realy won't make an appreciabel difference in what we can buy.
And i can make a dip check to haggle and pretty much negate those costs, i'll wager =P
Well, most of the back and forth with the GM led me to believe a lot of the stuff I want, which is more non-magical, and even for flavor (like a shaving kit, or a comfy bedroll, for example) – if I’m willing to toss down the loot, then we shouldn’t have to worry about things via the town’s gold “maximum limit”.
For example – our crew is currently (roughly) 25 people (if we count Sko, Rain and others, for the purpose of this exercise).
If we assume that each of us drink 2 cups of grog a day (not unreasonable) – then we have roughly 4 GP for the week on grog alone.
If we add in the cost of food for 25 people a week (3 sp per person, per day for “common food” for “daily meals”) that’s 52.5 gold pieces – so we’re roughly up to 55 gold so far.
If we include a 5 silver piece a night stay at the inn per person, that’s an additional 87.5 gold pieces, meaning we’ve already tapped up to nearly 150 gold on just food, drink and lodgings. That also doesn’t count the town’s own expenses (for example, how much do the people pay on food and drink each day).
My point is – while we can nit-pick all these little details, why bother? I think that 2,500 GP is a rough estimate on the town’s relative worth for special items. Remember, the shop I went to already was selling a +1 magical pistol. That pistol alone is worth over twice the value of the whole town.
As for supplies? Well, if we wanted to be enterprising, we wouldn’t waste time with things like buying “crafting supplies” for the ship (i.e. lumber and wood – magical supplies would be different, I would assume).
We’re at the edge of a forest, so we chop down a few trees and have 2 “unseen servants” take care of the tedium of cutting up the logs into boards for us on day one. And on day 2 the “unseen servants’ can simply sand down the wooden planks into smooth and crisp finished food.
We can even have unseen servants go about the business of weaving us some canvas sails. This is a tedious process, but if we used the spell, it would save us a lot of time and (potentially) money.
However, all of these points – while interesting in an academic way, really are peripheral to the main point: which is – why sweat he small stuff? If I want to spend 10 gold pieces to buy a new suit of clothes, why should that penalize the group as it pushes toward our "maximum ceiling" for our limited purchase? I mean, if I spent 200 GP to get a suit of “Nobles Clothes” and the requisite jewels (without which nobles clothes are fairly useless) – why should that penalize the group?
To be fair, maybe the GM will disagree, but my experience with him tells me he probably won’t care if we spend a little loot on stuff for social RP that is within reason. I'd even bet that he may even just give us stuff (like a nicer bedroll or something, for example), especially if we save the people’s life that are floundering in the water.
Anyway, as he’s out of town for a while visiting family in "The Pit of Despair for Internet Access" and won't be likely to post for a bit, I guess we’ll just have to see what happens when he gets back. However, I am all for your plan of “sweet talking/haggling” prices down to a more reasonable level :)
Imm - Just a point I wanted to bring up. on page 216 of the core book it says if a touch spell isn't discharged the round it's cast, it is held until it is discharged upon a successful touch. I might argue that dispelling an image is not a successful touch on a physical target, and while it might dispel the image, it shouldn't discharge the spell, since there was nothing there to touch. Just something to think about as 2 spells might still be held for potential touches if you think my reasoning sound. Thanks for considering, and have a wonderful holiday!
I've seen rules which suggest the decision is specifically up to the Magus who uses it. So if Variel struck an ally by accident with natural 1 (for example) he doesn't need to use the spell any more than if he struck an enemy's armor, but missed the enemy in a melee combat, or if he fell and his sword touched the ground during an acrobatics check.
This would suggest Variel has more control over how the spell goes off - that he could chose to use it on one of the images, or hold off on using it until later... But then, that's just what I heard.
Sorry to toss up my two cents on the issue, I'm just looking for some in-game chatting to do before work.
Well in the meantime, I hope you all have a good day :)
Jiro's referring to Valeros and Barzazal's spells delivered via touch attacks. Variel isn't casting anything, and a Touch spell is discharged whenever the character touches a target, and can accidentally expend a charge.
Holding the Charge: If you don't discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren't considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.
And touching an image expends the touch attack, as has been ruled already.
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Thanks for the finding the rule Dhaavan. I have always played it that way but couldn't find the rule myself. That is why I was hoping that by waiting till Valeros came near I could touch him have the spell go off and then move. Immortal was nice to rule that it was possible. Now with a swim speed, eagles flanking and removing images, Flynn with ranged support, and Jiro providing bonuses, I think we have everything covered.
Makes it seem like we have a balanced and well rounded group doesn't it.
Everything seems outstanding... until a second monster appears...
Bum ba bummmm....
;)
Thank you for putting that in a spoiler, Flynn.
I'm not sure how long it's going to take me to sift through all that, considering how long it took me to reply to your last post, but I'm sure I'll finish eventually, perhaps replying in installments as you did quite a bit of rambling.
If any o' the others have any thing to say about all that, on the game board, be my guest.
Thank you for putting that in a spoiler, Flynn.
I'm not sure how long it's going to take me to sift through all that, considering how long it took me to reply to your last post, but I'm sure I'll finish eventually, perhaps replying in installments as you did quite a bit of rambling.If any o' the others have any thing to say about all that, on the game board, be my guest.
I have absolutely no idea what your public OOC comment just meant, except that I felt that the way you phrased your statement was pretty rude.
I will now try to be more clear and make a direct post without the confusion that my social RP seemed to convey.
First, I specifically and clearly said that I did not want to be a pirate in the past - I had used social RP to convey that message in a way that was thinking back on things.
I also said very specifically that my opinion has changed and as of now I will happily be a formal "pirate".
I added very specifically that I do not know how that is properly defined in this game; but I was no longer intending to worry about that definition, but happy to "go with the flow".
I added that if being a pirate means that I simply hack and slash, I'll happily do it. If it means a specific type of social RP - I'll happily do it. If it means we have to do things in the game I don't get or understand the reason for - I'll happily do them, even though I don't understand them. But all of that was done "In Character" and "In Game".
My knowledge of piracy and nautical lore in general comes from different sources than yours, apparently, and I am not on the same page as you are.
Meanwhile, I am playing a character concept - and just because he doesn't have an eye patch and say "Arrr" a lot doesn't mean I am playing my character "Wrong".
It is social RP - my character approached your character with a moral quandary "in game" and "in character" on how to behave formally now, as my character has assumed we were friends. I had this discussion in character because it allows us the chance to have a discussion "In Character" and actually flesh out our character's personality while we wait for action in the game.
I could have said nothing while we waited for the combat to continue, but I thought this would give the game a point of interest to have a character who didn't fit into the exact mold of a stereotypical pirate, and that you and I could socially RP the nuances.
But if that's a problem for you, feel free to instead PM me or Skype chat me. But I don't feel like reading an OOC reaction to social RP when you seem to suggest that just because I write a character that doesn't follow a linear stereotype for a "pirate" that somehow that is a problem.
I am happy to play the game with the others however I need to play to make it work; I'll even modify my character's personality again, once I get a better sense on how he needs to be portrayed to suit the group.
However, I took the time to ask you what you thought in game. It seems like I made the mistake of doing it in a social RP post. If you don't want to social RP, that's cool; you could have just told me - but I don't need the attitude.
I'll say it now directly and to you and anyone else reading this; if you want to ask me about something I say or do in social RP; than ask my character in social RP. If you don't want to do it in social RP - you can send me a PM, or chat in Skype - but I don't feel like reading the attitude on the Game board.
It's not cool, and I don't appreciate it.
Merry Merry everyone, have a wonderful Christmas and see you on the flip side!
Merry Christmas to you as well, Seijiro-san, and to everyone else the same!
Feliz Navidad everybody!!!
Well, christmas morning is over here, presents have been opened and all the excitement is done. Hope your day is going well. We are off to the movies shortly and then a quiet evening at home. Hopefully we will resume gaming soon, as I miss it.
HAPPY DAY to everyone!!!
Well Jiro, and others, if you pop over to this thread in a few hours, Dhaavan has a thought for plans, but I'm reluctant to gum up the combat with it right now. But I gotta get out the church first...
Dhaavan - your link takes me right over to the campaign info part of this same thread - are you sure you didn't mean this thread?
Guess I got it wrong and coppied the wrong link. Posting from my phone...
'tis okay - S. joined the conversation late. Anyway, sorry to hear you have to get up and work early the day after the holiday. Thank goodness I get to stay home and let the hubby work, lol... but i do have a breakfast out with friends in the morning and a meeting afterwards that will keep me busy til about noon pst. So I've posted tonight and probably won't post again til tomorrow afternoon.
It's no worries Jiro, and thanks for your thoughts. Yeah, working early did suck, but on the plus side, one of my jobs was canceled/postponed because of the sleet/freezing rain. So I worked the early shift, and have now had a chance to post more on the boards.
Meantime, I'm really digging your posts on the social thread. It's been a lot of fun, and I look forward to more of them soon!
Give Tomo-chan a fig - but no dates! I've seen too many monkey's react poorly to "bad dates" :)
Damn! Now that I think of it, I should have had someone craft him a mini-fedora to go with the armor...
yay... looks like we are back , at least for now...
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Flynn moving discussion of shield spell here. Yes the shield spell is nice as it grants a 4 shield bonus.it has two drawbacks though. First is that it is a. Inute per level spell and in a wand it would only last 1 minute.
Second and more importantly it is a self only spell. Thus if we got a wand we would have to pass it back and forth and each person use it themselves. If they don't have shield on their spell list then they need to reliably hit a 20 use magic device skill check.
Eventually I am thinking about getting a wand of that as Variel will be able to use a wand with spell combat due to magus arcana but I don't know how well that will work for others. Even then I don't know if I would take it as I would prefer to hold onto a damage dealing wand rather than a one use spell wand per combat.
Back from traveling but my actions still stand Immortal just the 5ft step would be to still get into combat with the naga. Underwater if necessary.
well, most combats don't last longer than 10 rounds, so a 1 minute spell isn't so much an issue, it would help a lot, but I agree that because it is self only, it will only be good for Variel or Dhaavan for any combats we have time to prepare for. Dicier for the bards (Flynn and myself) because of the umd roll required.
sorry, fell asleep and couldn't answer right away, and about to go to bed, so this will be short.
Just a guess on my part since I don't know, but I'm betting this creature is amphibious and can breathe underwater AND has a swim speed. If those are both true, it can probably talk & cast underwater without concentration checks... outside of combat related ones that is, of course.
Anyway, those are just guesses on my part since I don't know anything about these things in or out of character. However, when I am GM'ing, creatures in their natural environments can cast and act normally in those environments.
Just my 2 cents.
Night, see you all tomorrow.
Well, even if it can talk underwater, I'm more concerned about us and spellcasting - it's one thing to do that while wading in the water, but underwater is another things.
Normal naga's are amphibious - but even if they are able to travel underwater (amphibious creatures can't breathe underwater, generally, they normally can just hold their breath for a long time) - the real issue is; since water alone provides so much difficulty to movement and range attack, it seems as if it is an almost thick buffer - not unlike a gag, which would muffle things like that.
Again, I don't know either way, that's why I asked. But anyway, it was on my mind in case we need to cast underwater - I'd rather know if we can/can't in advance, rather than the middle of an action.
Anyway - I'm off to work!
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Yes from here on out Variel will need to be making concentration checks at 15 + spell level to cast spells underwater. Until the images are gone, it is going to be acid splash to attack twice with the best chance to get the spell off. Granted if the eagles and Dhaavan new creatures remove images than I may try shocking grasp again.