Improved Stalwart Half-Orc Deathless Barbarian


Advice


Hi.

I am starting this thread to bounce Ideas on Making this work.

The concept is a Barbarian who can take it to the face all day long, just WILL NOT go down.

So I'm thinking Half- Orc.with Ferocity Alt racial trait
Invulnerable Rager Archetype (for class DR)
1 level Unbreakable dip (for Die Hard, Endurance)
combat exp, Stalwart and Improved Stalwart (stacks with barb DR)

He'll need Reckless Abandon to counter to hit penalty from Combat Exp. This will further drop his AC so the DR trade needs to be worth it.

Then deathless initiate so he can fight at negative HP.
And the power that lets you sacrifice rage rounds to negate damage.

See where I am going?
Any one got any Ideas on making this work?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Destroyer's Blessing and Thrill of the Kill will keep your rage going all day.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

STR Ranger wrote:

Hi.

I am starting this thread to bounce Ideas on Making this work.

The concept is a Barbarian who can take it to the face all day long, just WILL NOT go down.

So I'm thinking Half- Orc.with Ferocity Alt racial trait
Invulnerable Rager Archetype (for class DR)
1 level Unbreakable dip (for Die Hard, Endurance)
combat exp, Stalwart and Improved Stalwart (stacks with barb DR)

He'll need Reckless Abandon to counter to hit penalty from Combat Exp. This will further drop his AC so the DR trade needs to be worth it.

Then deathless initiate so he can fight at negative HP.
And the power that lets you sacrifice rage rounds to negate damage.

See where I am going?
Any one got any Ideas on making this work?

What about some Stalwart Defender levels later?

Shadow Lodge

Crane style instead of combat expertise will get you a larger DR bonus at a smaller to hit penalty. With Acrobatics of 3 or more you will be maxing out the +5 dr as soon as you get it.

Guarded Life, Greater Guarded Life and flesh Wound will keep you up and Raging Vitality, resilient Brute and Tenacious Survivor will make sure you live through the battle.


Crane Style is -2 to attack for +4 AC.when fighting defensively where are you gettong the +5AC?

I gotta reread some feats/powers , at work right now but sounding good so far.

1-(Unbreakable)Endurance, Diehard
2-(Invul Rager)
3- (Invulrager2) Imp Unarmed Strike, Rage Power
4-(Invulrager3)
5-(Invulrager4) Crane Style, Rager Power

Gotta put this together....


Seriphim84 wrote:

Crane style instead of combat expertise will get you a larger DR bonus at a smaller to hit penalty. With Acrobatics of 3 or more you will be maxing out the +5 dr as soon as you get it.

Guarded Life, Greater Guarded Life and flesh Wound will keep you up and Raging Vitality, resilient Brute and Tenacious Survivor will make sure you live through the battle.

How are you getting +5 DR with Crane Style and Acrobatics?

Fighting Defensively: +2
Acrobatics (3 ranks or more): +1
Crane Style: +1

I get DR 4 with Stalwart and DR 8 with Improved Stalwart, with only a -2 to hit penalty due to Crane Style. Still better than Combat Expertise, since the to hit penalty is not as bad, although the DR won't be as good.

I'm trying to do something similar with my barbarian, so I would really like to get the DR to +5/+10 without Combat Expertise.


I really like snake style over crane. It gives you better AC in situations where you absolutely need it, mostly touch attacks, but if you gotta dodge 1 attack a round a skill roll averages better.


STR Ranger wrote:

Crane Style is -2 to attack for +4 AC.when fighting defensively where are you gettong the +5AC?

I gotta reread some feats/powers , at work right now but sounding good so far.

1-(Unbreakable)Endurance, Diehard
2-(Invul Rager)
3- (Invulrager2) Imp Unarmed Strike, Rage Power
4-(Invulrager3)
5-(Invulrager4) Crane Style, Rager Power

Gotta put this together....

Toughness may be a consideration for extra HP every level.


D'arandriel wrote:
Seriphim84 wrote:

Crane style instead of combat expertise will get you a larger DR bonus at a smaller to hit penalty. With Acrobatics of 3 or more you will be maxing out the +5 dr as soon as you get it.

Guarded Life, Greater Guarded Life and flesh Wound will keep you up and Raging Vitality, resilient Brute and Tenacious Survivor will make sure you live through the battle.

How are you getting +5 DR with Crane Style and Acrobatics?

Fighting Defensively: +2
Acrobatics (3 ranks or more): +1
Crane Style: +1

I get DR 4 with Stalwart and DR 8 with Improved Stalwart, with only a -2 to hit penalty due to Crane Style. Still better than Combat Expertise, since the to hit penalty is not as bad, although the DR won't be as good.

I'm trying to do something similar with my barbarian, so I would really like to get the DR to +5/+10 without Combat Expertise.

I think he's including the Dodge feat which is a preq for Crane style. Not sure if dodge works with stalwart.

Shadow Lodge

Sorry I misremembered the totals and didn't look it up to double check before I posted. The only thing I know that can get that business up is Osyluth Guile but I don't know if it would work because it is towards a single guy.

I don't think you need toughness. Run an 16 str, 18con and boost str as you level. Take hitpoint for favored class. you will be averaging 12 hp per level after as a Barbarian. Besides, you have enough feats to worry about.


Ok first I thought maybe this build should be a plain orc, cause they get 'proper ferocity' allowing them to fight right up to neg con before dying. But the Diehard feat allows a half orc to do it anyway.

In fact I believe Half- Orc with the Diehard alt racial trait is better. This swaps for ferocity and means you don't need an unbreakable level for diehard.
Perhaps then Straight Barb.
Or

1level.of Martial artist monk can get Imp Unarmed Strike, Dodge (bonus), Diehard (racial) and Endurance all at first level. (You get all good saves, Wis to AC when unarmored, Stunning Fist but lose 1 BAB)
Then 19 levels of Barb

1- Dodge, Endurance, Imp Unarmed Strike, Diehard
2-
3- Crane Style, Lesser Beast Totem
4-
5- Stalwart, Reckless Abandon?
6-
7- Deathless Initiate, Beast Totem
8-
9-Feat, Rage Power
10-
11- Improved Stalwart
12-
13-Feat, Gtr Beast Totem

Shadow Lodge

I would recommend against monk for 1st level. The hit point loss will hurt. Perhaps at second level where it won't hurt as much or you could use the unarmed fighter. Gets improved unarmed and crane style. You could take dodge at level 3.
Beast totem won't stack well with your plan. It is great and has pounce but there are a of rage powers to keep you standing and healthy and the beast totem won't do a lot there.


the natural armor in the second beast totem power is pretty dang nice, especially if you're an urban barbarian with no rage AC hit and that +1 to AC when adjacent to two or more enemies.


I am having a hard time picking between an unarmed fighter or.Sohei, Martial Artist for my dip.

The fighter archetype nets me 2 feats Imp Unarmed Strike and Crane style (doesn't need dodge)

The monk gets.dodge/Imp Unarmed Stike and.cam.always act in the surprise round. Loses 1BAB but is +2 better.will, ref.

So?
1-barb 1- Diehard (racial), Power Attack
2-Unarmed Fighter- Imp Strike, Crane Style
3-barb2- Endurance, Lesser Beast Totem
4-
5- Stalwart, Reckless Abandon
6-
7- Deathless Initiate, Reckless abandon
8-
9- Resiliant Brute, Beast Totem
10-
11-Improved Stalwart, Superstitious
12-
13-Tenascious Survivor, Gtr Beast Totem
14-
15- Raging Brutality, Eater of Magic
16-
17-
18-
19-

Does the build as is work? If not, what does it need?

Awesome combos I missed, Lunge, Witchunter, Spell Sunder, Str Surge


What is the racial diehard feat? Orc ferocity?

Also, unless I am reading crane style incorrectly, one level of monk is enough to qualify for crane style. With that said, I think one level of monk nets you more than one level of unarmed fighter.

Whenever you can start to rage cycle, I would pick up flesh wound to mitigate even more damage.

Shadow Lodge

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The advantages of beast totem are cancelled out by the rest of the build. I would consider going with more life based or magic hunting powers.
The Lesser Beast totem will only give you claws which, while alot of fun, are only useful while raging and aren't as good as a Greatsword or other two handed weapon.
Beast totem can be great to offset the armor loss of rage but you are already giving up most of your AC by level 5. with a Breast plate, low dex (12-14) and reckless abandon, your AC will only be 14 (10+6 Breastplate+2 Dex-2 raging-2 reckless abandon=14) at 5. lower an entire power for a minor change to that is a waste.
Greater Beast Totem Almost makes it all worth it. Pounce is a great power that can make a lot of character deadly but with just two claws, even at d8s, Pounce is of limited use. If I charge, power attack and hit with both at level 11 I am doing around 40-50 points of damage (without magic) and may loose a bit of that to DR (no adimantium or silver or anything else) If I hit with my great sword just once I am doing 30-35(without magic) damage and have a magic adimantium weapon. Assuming the guy has dr 10/alignment then the claws are loose 20 damage to it while the sword looses 10.

If its about the flavor then go for it. I get it. I have a natural attack Barbarian. But the rest of you build just isn't backing it up.

{edited to include some math}
{second edit} I couldn't find half-orc trait that gives Diehard. Did you mean this one?

Quote:


Shaman's Apprentice Only the most stalwart survive the years of harsh treatment that an apprenticeship to an orc shaman entails. Half-orcs with this trait gain Endurance as a bonus feat. This racial trait replaces the intimidating trait.


Yeah, apologies. i did mean SHAMAN'S APPRENTICE for free endurance. I was on nightshift and tired.

Will do some work and flesh it out.

Note: I HAS been confirmed by Paizo that you CAN pounce with Manufactured Weapons. SO in the math examples above the Barb would just Pounce with his Magic Greataxe!!
Lesser Beast Totem is a tax and Beast Totem is OK. POUNCE, while 2 handed power attacking is AWESOME.

Edit

Rough Build:

Name: Olgen Breakjaw
Build: Invulnerable Rager 20
Race: Half-Orc (Shaman’s Apprentice)
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Theme-
Ability Scores: 20pts
STR 18 (4points to Str 22)
DEX 14
CON 15 (Con to 16)
INT 12
WIS 10
CHA 7
Skills= 4 skill points per level, Favored Bonus: To HP and Rage Rounds
2 traits- Strong Will (+1 will saves- Cayden),
Optimistic Rager- Rage lasts 1d4 extra Rounds

1-Rager1:Fast Movement, Rage, Endurance, Power Attack
2-Unamred Fighter1: Imp Unarmed Strike, Crane Style
3-Rager2:DR1/-, Lesser Beast Totem, Raging Vitality
4-Rager3:Extreme Endurance
5-Rager4:DR2/-, Power: Superstition, Diehard
6-Rager5
7-Rager6:DR3/-, Heat Resist1, Beast Totem, Stalwart
8-Rager7
9-Rager8:DR4/-, Witchunter, Lunge or Imp Sunder
10-Rager9:Heat Resist2
11-Rager10:DR5/-,Gtr Beast Totem, Improved Stalwart
12-Rager11:Greater Rage
13-Rager12:Heat Resist3, DR6/-, Come and Get Me, Combat Reflexes
14-Rager13
15-Rager14:DR7/-, Spell Sunder, Raging Brutality
16-Rager15:Heat Resist4
17-Rager16:DR8/-, Smasher, Feat
18-Rager17:Tireless Rage, Str Surge
19-Rager18:DR9/-, Heat Resist5, Sunder Enchantment, Feat
20-Rager19

AC at 20- 10+2(dex)+3(belt)+7 (Celestial Breastplate w/Armored Kilt)+5(amulet)+5(ring)+5(enhancement)+4(beast totem)-2(rage)+1(Dusty Ioun Stone)=40 when raging and 36 with Come and get me.

Damage reduction9(class)+8(Fighting Defensively, Arcrobatics, Crane Style)= DR17/-

Attack at 20 is 20 +3(Gtr Rage) +5(enhancement)+ 3(belt of physical perfection) +6(str)+2(Furious Weapon)- 6(PA)-2(Fight= 31/26/21/16

Olgen Can Fight at negative HP till he's dead. Assuming 16 Con and a belt of Perfection at 20 that's -22. When he fights in the negatives he gets +2 to attack and damage via Deathless Initiate.[/spoiler]

Ok guys. I am happy with the DR and he still has a decent AC.
I don't think his TO HIT is High Enough and His Con Score is not High Enough Either. Mostly because he needs to not be scared of fighting in the negatives.

So we need to boost to hit and CON.
Also wasn't there a feat or power that let you blow rage rounds to reguce the damage you take?

Help would be appreciated.


Also trying to work out if thrill of the kill is worth it.

Sure he can kill dudes but will enemies have same HD enough?
Mooks make up alot of fights.

Born Alone and Tenacious Survivor look great.

Still can't find.the feat that lets you blow rage rounds to negate damage.

I believe Mounted Rager might be good. Just for a flank buddy. A rhino or Triceratops.would be an awesome way into melee.


Think about human with the feat racial heritage half orc, heart of the wilderness at 20 nets you 10 extra negative hit points you can go to


Found the feat i was looking for

Ferocious Tenacity

Not some help putting it all together would be awesome.

Human Gets a bonus feat (which needs to go on the heritage feat for orc feats), but gets the awsome human superstitious bonus and heart of the wilderness for more negative hp. I couldalso dump Int to 7 and pump CON more and still get 3 skills per level.
Plus a feat for ferocity.

Half-Orc gets Endurance as a bonus feat. So less feat tax and more rage rounds.


You don't have the ferocity trait to take the Ferocious Tenacity feat. So if you go human, and do decide to waste a feat on an or or Half- Orc feat, either deathless initiate, or Get destroyers blessing, which considering you already have the sunder style feats later on, isn't necessarily a bad choice. In fact, for you, that might be the better choice.

Get Destroyers Blessing instead.


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Name: Olgen Breakjaw
Build: Invulnerable Rager 20
Race: Half-Orc (Shaman's Apprentice, Skilled racial traits)
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Theme- CANNOT BE KILLED!! RAGH!
Ability Scores: 20pts
STR 18 (4 points to Str 22)
DEX 14
CON 17 (1 point to Con 18)
INT 7
WIS 10
CHA 7
Skills= 4-2(INT)+1(Skilled)= 3per level
Favored Bonus: Rage Rounds
2 traits- Strong Will (+1 will saves- Cayden),
Optimistic Rager- Rage lasts 1d4 extra Rounds

1-Rager1:Fast Movt, Rage, Endurance, Power Attack
2-Unamred Fighter1: Imp Unarmed Strike, Crane Style
3-Rager2:DR1/-, Guarded Life, Raging Vitality
4-Rager3:Extreme Endurance
5-Rager4:DR2/-, Power: Superstition, Diehard
6-Rager5
7-Rager6:DR3/-, Heat Resist1, Gtr Guarded Life, Stalwart
8-Rager7
9-Rager8:DR4/-, Witchunter, Ferocious Tenacity
10-Rager9:Heat Resist2
11-Rager10:DR5/-,Flesh Wound, Improved Stalwart
12-Rager11:Greater Rage
13-Rager12:Heat Resist3, DR6/-, Come and Get Me, Combat Reflexes
14-Rager13
15-Rager14:DR7/-, Spell Sunder, Raging Brutality
16-Rager15:Heat Resist4
17-Rager16:DR8/-, Smasher, Grudge Fighter
18-Rager17:Tireless Rage, Str Surge
19-Rager18:DR9/-, Heat Resist5, Sunder Enchantment, Destroyer's Blessing
20-Rager19

ok, I dropped The beast totem line when I worked out as nice as pounce is this guy does enough damage in 2rounds to drop a level appropritate foe anyway. He still has come and get me so he gets a ton of extra attaks anyway.

It allowed me to fit in Guarded Life, Gtr Guarded Life And Flesh Wound.
this lets him convert ALOT of damage to non-leathal (for which his normal DR is doubled.)

Now you'll not he has spellsunder but not Lunge or Imp Sunder. He does'nt need it. Imp Unarmed Strike and a Cestus means he threatensadjacent foes anyway. He fights with a Reach weapon. Not Sure what yet but a Lucerine Hammer gives +2 to Sunder Attempts.

At high levels he can Sunder Spells and Gear.
Raging Brutality REALLY ups damage but costs rage.
Whatever damage is not taken away by the guarded life powers, can be negated by Ferocious Tenacity.

I took Skilled Racial Trait so I could dump Int and CHA to the floor and still get 3 skills per level.
18 CON+Belt of Perfection 6+Gtr Rage+6, Raging Vitality+2= Able to go to -32hp before dying.

Destroyer's Blessing is a Late pick but by then he'll be sundering every damn thing and using Raging Brutality ALOT.

What ya think?


I know it really isn't in your recipe for the build but this Alchemist Discovery works awesomely with the Deathless line of feats:

Quote:

Lingering Spirit (Ex)

Prerequisite: Alchemist 4

Benefit: The alchemist is familiar enough with the ties between his body and spirit that he lingers at death’s door far longer than a normal person. He treats his Constitution as 10 points higher than normal for the purpose of determining when hit point damage kills him (so an alchemist with a Constitution of 10 and this discovery dies at –20 hit points instead of –10). Reducing him to 0 Constitution or its equivalent (from ability damage, ability drain, Constitution penalties, and so on) makes him unconscious and comatose, but he is only killed after taking an additional 5 points of Constitution damage, drain, or penalty (in effect, the alchemist must be brought to –5 Constitution in order to be killed by these attacks).

Like I said, I know it isn't really in your plan but have a Mutagen around for 40min/day doesn't hurt the build from a mechanical standpoint. You could think of it more as "Steroids" for flavor purposes if it helps the flavor. Plus you would get a couple of Discoveries and there are a couple of good ones out there for the build.

*shrug* Just an idea.

Shadow Lodge

That is brutality. It is one of the most terrifying Barbarians I have ever seen. Well done. I hope he goes on to destroy (after terrifying) many poor fools who think they can kill him. The Only thing I can think of is maybe take Energy Resistance with a second type to gain further staying power.


Sorry for the somewhat threadomancy. I really like this build, the ARG use for END as a bonus feat and the way the build really captures the undying "Orkiness" of the concept is super!

My thought was basing the same concept around a Human. Diehard would allow actions at negative hitpoints (albeit:staggered. As well your chance of immediate death would be much increased!

However by taking TWO levels of Monk:Master of Many Styles,you gain two important additions. Evasion and Crane Wing, my thought being that these two in conjunction with the human Superstitious Rage Power would give the resulting Barb/Monk incredibly high resistances.

Feats:DieHard,Endurance,Stalwart,Improved Stalwart
:CraneStyle,Crane Wing (<from dip)
:CombatReflexes,PowerAttack,DazingAssault,Toughness
:RagingBrutality,RagingDeathblow!?

Rage :BeastTotem(full),RecklessAbandon,CAGM,Superstitious,EaterofMAgic,Fleshwoun d,Ghost Rager

Note this leaves one feat unassigned for either:Lunge(important for Barbs), RagingVitality(i am not sure this build with Diehard needs it as much??) or DragonStyle (note it helps charging and synergizes VERY nicely with Beast Totem). GhostRager was selected on the "Invulnerable" idea but perhaps another "reroll" RP would be good here.

This character would be very damage resistant via the synergy of Superstitious and Evasion and also have the same high DR of STR Rangers original build. CraneWing adds a very useful form of damage mitigation (admittedly may be a challenge to employ optimally with CaGM).


I know this thread is a few years old but you completely overlooked an extra 6 dr. The dragon totem line gives you an extra 6dr when you take all three. If you want the ultimate in dr you need that
I know a lot of people debate whether not dragon totem gives you DR or energy resistance… But that is only because they can't read English… It gives you both that's the way it's written the extra DR is plain as day it spells it out


You need dodge to get Crane style at lvl 2

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