Killed one of my players. What now?


Advice

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So while exploring the town of Relford one of my characters (a wizard) decides he's not going to back down from a local farmer. He winds up dead at the hands (or paws) of the farmers mastiffs and now I'm at a loss for how to proceed. The player will be ok, though he's upset that he didn't perceive in perfect detail the situation. I tell him that's like life - you don't always know what's going to happen or who that guy really is. You never know when that farmer is going to turn out to be a murdering psychopath or that cloth merchant is a decorated military veteran.

Anyhow, now I'm faced with how to bring in a new character. Fortunately they're in a town with a large cast to choose from, so he could simply pick up one of the NPC's and go forward with that. Alternatively he might decide to do something totally different and then I shoehorn that character into the story. I'm against him playing the exact same character but with slightly different clothes, because I think that takes away the drama of death.

Any advice for a new-ish DM dealing with player death for the first time?


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If the party is looking for a replacement, having them run into an interested party is the best method, especially if the new character has reason to get involved with the party and fill the gap.

If they are hirelings working for someone, having their employer send a replacement works well. This is how I handled deaths and disappearances in Savage Tide - Lavinia Vanderboren would pick up new adventurers, negotiate and hire them, and arrange for them to meet the group.

Are you running an AP? Giving the details of the plot and situation and all might help us give you options. =)


I know what I do whenever I introduce a new character, I try to see if the player has a background story. If so, I can then have the new PC have the same or similar goal or end game result. Alternativly, the new PC can try and prevent the party from acheiving that goal.

I know the easiest way for me is just to give them the same goal. Easy Peezy.

Game Mastering Guide has a big section with this.

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What, no mound of dead bards?

Joking aside, I'd suggest having him create a new character and find the story work around. A quick and dirty way to do so is to have a fight with something and the new guy shows up to help the party. Alternatively, he could just be there in the bar awaiting the party to give them a clue or a something... shouldn't be too hard to come up with a workable plot hook.


If he wants to play a wizard, let him. In our group, new characters usually come with one level less than the survivors. If you're level 1, that's not possible - but at least, the others should have earned some EXP already.

If the wizard is just a copy of the first, that'd be bad style - encourage the player at least to make a different wizard (race, specialization, abilities, skills).


Communicate with the player. Askes what he wants to play and what kind of background story he has. Make a nice introduction story.

For example.
The next mission given by the mayor or other important npc. Obligates the party to accept a new party menber.


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Kolazi wrote:
Killed one of my players. What now?

Currently on the phone with the cops. Keep him talking!


One of the fun things about RPGs is you get to play any number of other people. Coming back as the same person cuts into that AND makes the game seem less than real. As you say, That takes away the drama of death.


BltzKrg242 wrote:
One of the fun things about RPGs is you get to play any number of other people. Coming back as the same person cuts into that AND makes the game seem less than real. As you say, That takes away the drama of death.

Somewhat yes but it sounds like he killed the player at level 1 which always feel like a huge let down if you've put any effort into fleshing out the character and have this great idea and now it's ruined without you ever getting to really play him.

As a side note how did he get killed by a dog they have a terrible stat block?

Regardless you're in a city/town just have his character wandering in and get hired on or run into a party member at a tavern or bawdy house and get pulled along by one of the party since he has nothing better to do.


gnomersy wrote:
BltzKrg242 wrote:
One of the fun things about RPGs is you get to play any number of other people. Coming back as the same person cuts into that AND makes the game seem less than real. As you say, That takes away the drama of death.

Somewhat yes but it sounds like he killed the player at level 1 which always feel like a huge let down if you've put any effort into fleshing out the character and have this great idea and now it's ruined without you ever getting to really play him.

As a side note how did he get killed by a dog they have a terrible stat block?

Regardless you're in a city/town just have his character wandering in and get hired on or run into a party member at a tavern or bawdy house and get pulled along by one of the party since he has nothing better to do.

A level 1 wizard vs 2 dogs? Just a couple of 12+ rolls along with near full damage rolls would kill the wizard.

The Exchange Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

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Kolazi wrote:
Any advice for a new-ish DM dealing with player death for the first time?

Relax, take a deep breath.... do you have a wood chipper?

Grand Lodge

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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Kolazi wrote:
Killed one of my players. What now?
Currently on the phone with the cops. Keep him talking!

Hide the body. Never speak of it again.


Gignere wrote:

A level 1 wizard vs 2 dogs? Just a couple of 12+ rolls along with near full damage rolls would kill the wizard.

Sure and one 12+ roll and near full damage with a crossbow drops a dog per round, you're not really supposed to kill people at level one because they're all stupidly pathetic to begin with, and was the rest of the party just sitting there twiddling their thumbs?

For that matter you're in a city generally speaking lawkeepers frown upon the whole murdering travelers because you're crazy thing so anyone who makes a habit of it ought not be around in the long term.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Do you know anyone with a pig farm?


gnomersy wrote:
Gignere wrote:

A level 1 wizard vs 2 dogs? Just a couple of 12+ rolls along with near full damage rolls would kill the wizard.

Sure and one 12+ roll and near full damage with a crossbow drops a dog per round, you're not really supposed to kill people at level one because they're all stupidly pathetic to begin with, and was the rest of the party just sitting there twiddling their thumbs?

For that matter you're in a city generally speaking lawkeepers frown upon the whole murdering travelers because you're crazy thing so anyone who makes a habit of it ought not be around in the long term.

It depends on the type of game and the GM back in the days, you can have 6 level 1 characters before the first game is over. The one that survives might make it to level 2. Lol.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

It would be pretty ruthless of the farmer to have the dogs keep going until the player reaches -Con.

If you don't want to retcon it, well, yeah. Let him roll a new character and help him tie into the story. It often seems like it would be cool for a player to take over a NPC and join the party, but many players would prefer to make their own character.


Gignere wrote:

It depends on the type of game and the GM back in the days, you can have 6 level 1 characters before the first game is over. The one that survives might make it to level 2. Lol.

Least enjoyable type of campaign ever imo. In my experience making death too frequent an occurence results almost entirely in people being lazy about roleplaying and makes any sort of backstory rudimentary at best because they know they're going to be cycling in 5 more characters so why waste time fleshing them out?


Firstly it sounds like you over reacted a little bit, you could have just killed the wizard and left the player be. I understand role playin but literally killing a player when his character dies is... Well it's a little extreme.


Ubercroz wrote:
Firstly it sounds like you over reacted a little bit, you could have just killed the wizard and left the player be. I understand role playin but literally killing a player when his character dies is... Well it's a little extreme.

This is exactly the kind of lax GM attitude that discourages players from becoming immersed in their characters and taking the game seriously. ;)


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The police put me on hold again. What's going on over there?

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
The police put me on hold again. What's going on over there?

He's fed the corpse to the Smurfs. The cops'll never find it now. You're too late, man. Hang it up.


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Kolazi wrote:
Killed one of my players. What now?

Don't panic; I think we've all been there at one point or another. First things first, deal with the witnesses and establish an alibi. Come back here for further instructions when you've done that.

Am I the only one that thinks this should be flagged as a FAQ? Yes? No?


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I suggest that you hide the body in your backyard. You could also use a strong base to break his body down to hide the evidence.


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Kolazi wrote:
Killed one of my players. What now?

Skip town, and maybe next time just try killing their PCs instead.

(Seriously though, work with the players on how to bring in a new character. This applies not just to character death, but also to new members joining the group mid-way through campaigns. Perhaps they recruit the new PC, perhaps a mentor figure insists they make this new person a part of their group, or perhaps the new one shares a common goal with them, and a team-up is simply a mutually beneficial thing to do.)

Liberty's Edge

First, make sure he's really dead...

Okay, now that I've gotten that out of my system, I've found the easiest way to get him back in is to have him come up with a reason to be there, and to get along with the rest of the party. It doesn't even need to be a good reason; that can be fleshed out later. Get him back into it sooner rather than wait for a 'perfect' spot to add him. You're playing for FUN, and it's no fun sitting and watching while everyone else plays.


I think your player learned a valuable lesson.

The lesson for the GM is, you can't save your players from themselves.

A person (even a PC) who pushes a confrontation to violence had better be good at violence. A typical wizard is in bad shape and not a trained combatant. I'll put my money on two mastiffs against a couch potato any day.

If you had given him the impression they were chihuahuas and he was Conan, you might owe him an apology or a raise dead, but otherwise, you remind him that smart adventurers live longer and tell him to reroll. Maybe he can roll a barbarian and go kick some dog butt.

The notion that players get a free pass to second level sounds to me like you should just start the campaign with characters at second level.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Or roll a dark druid...and sick his own dogs on him.

MUAHAHAHA...

Err, 'scuse me.


gnomersy wrote:
BltzKrg242 wrote:
One of the fun things about RPGs is you get to play any number of other people. Coming back as the same person cuts into that AND makes the game seem less than real. As you say, That takes away the drama of death.

Somewhat yes but it sounds like he killed the player at level 1 which always feel like a huge let down if you've put any effort into fleshing out the character and have this great idea and now it's ruined without you ever getting to really play him.

As a side note how did he get killed by a dog they have a terrible stat block?

Regardless you're in a city/town just have his character wandering in and get hired on or run into a party member at a tavern or bawdy house and get pulled along by one of the party since he has nothing better to do.

It was a level 3 wizard (11 health) vs. a farmer with two riding dogs (mastiffs) and a farmer (Ftr2 Cmnr1). Here's the scenario:

PCs are in a frontier-ish town trying to figure out the source of strange goings-on. They encountered communications from a deceased former resident and are trying to corroborate this account, so they decide to look for evidence under a tree near a farm as described in the document.

The rogue (also lvl 3) disarms an alarm near the tree and the wizard decides to dig. The rest of the party is at a tavern gathering information. They've heard loud voices on the other side of the 5-ft fence which now stop, and he hears dogs barking now. The bigotted farmer decides to yell at the half-orc and tells him to "git off my lawn". The player decides to play "no speak common" and keeps digging. The farmer hucks a stone from the wall at the wizard and beans him in the head, doing 4 damage.

At this point the wizard decides to draw his two-handed ask (yes, our wizard HAS TO HAVE a two-handed axe) and move toward the 5ft stone wall. The farmer freaks out and ducks behind the wall. The player decides to reach over the wall and cast Color Spray on a target he can't see and therefore doesn't actually hit the farmer. This freaks the farmer out so he sics the dogs on the wizard.

The dogs do 14pts of damage (1d6+3 bite each) and the wizard is now at -4 health. But wait a minute, he's a half-orc! He's still up! He could run! He could surrender! He could TALK AND APOLOGIZE. No no. He casts Web. The dogs make their save and the player collapses (still -4). The farmer calls back the dogs, but 1 of them bites the wizard doing 7 damage. Con 10. The wizard is dead.

Qorin wrote:

I think your player learned a valuable lesson.

The lesson for the GM is, you can't save your players from themselves.

A person (even a PC) who pushes a confrontation to violence had better be good at violence. A typical wizard is in bad shape and not a trained combatant. I'll put my money on two mastiffs against a couch potato any day.
...
The notion that players get a free pass to second level sounds to me like you should just start the campaign with characters at second level.

I gave the wizard every opportunity to leave the fight. He decided to trespass, ignore the farmer, enter into combat, and not flee. He also never spoke to the farmer (it's a free action!). Also worthy of note was that the rogue and his pet panther just let the wizard die because he thought he was being stupid.

I've had problems with this player not listening to the situation and not picking up on hints i.e. "You hear dogs barking" or "The voices stop when you started digging, do you want to keep digging?" and "He seems afraid of you". Now he knows that there are consequences and this death had an unintended effect of showing some of the less enthusiastic players that success is not always a given and there's no Deus Ex Machina always ready to swoop in and save the party.

I now need to wait and see what sort of character he wants and go from there.

Liberty's Edge

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I hate to say this, but the rogue with the panther was right. The wizard dumpstatted his Wisdom, didn't he?

Anyway, if the player learned his lesson, great. If not, the issue isn't that you killed a PC, it's that one of your players has a playing style incompatible with your GM style. You'll probably have to dance-fight or something to solve it, although talking might help, too.


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Kolazi wrote:
I've had problems with this player not listening to the situation and not picking up on hints i.e. "You hear dogs barking" or "The voices stop when you started digging, do you want to keep digging?" and "He seems afraid of you". Now he knows that there are consequences and this death had an unintended effect of showing some of the less enthusiastic players that success is not always a given and there's no Deus Ex Machina always ready to swoop in and save the party.

If my DM killed off one of the other players, I'd probably quit the game and run as fast as I could. However, if I stuck it out I'd VERY enthusiastic about listening to my DM. So, if your players don't quit on you I'm sure they will listen attentively.


Eric Tillemans wrote:
If my DM killed off one of the other players, I'd probably quit the game and run as fast as I could. However, if I stuck it out I'd VERY enthusiastic about listening to my DM. So, if your players don't quit on you I'm sure they will listen attentively.

They seem to understand that the wizard made bad choices (he's known for doing foolish things in combat) and I think they liked that "Shit just got real". We're all in our 20's, so I'm not too worried about hurt feelings.

DeathSpot wrote:
I hate to say this, but the rogue with the panther was right. The wizard dumpstatted his Wisdom, didn't he?

DING DING DING DING! Actually, what he did was totally in character. His character is just a moron.

Quote:
Anyway, if the player learned his lesson, great. If not, the issue isn't that you killed a PC, it's that one of your players has a playing style incompatible with your GM style. You'll probably have to dance-fight or something to solve it, although talking might help, too.

It's more like his playing style is incompatible with his choice of characters. He played perfectly for a half-orc Barbarian or brawler, but he specifically wanted to be a half-orc WIZARD with high INT that carries and AXE and charges into melee. It was natural selection in action.


Now that I've heard the scenario, I say good riddance to a bad character, and just have this player bring in a fighter or barbarian as a replacement. He clearly has not the first notion of how wizards (or sane individuals) comport themselves.


Well, it sounds like you've already set a precedent for NPCs in your world having levels in the major classes, what with the farmer and the cloth merchant you mentioned.

So... have the rest of the group put up a notice that "Adventuring company X is now hiring!" or simply have the player make up a character who is down on his luck and needs to go back to his adventuring career, and will hook up with the party. Since they're near a settlement of some sort, you don't even need to have the new character be an NPC the players have met yet; Chances are good there are people in the settlement who move in different social circles than them, and you can always have a friendly NPC serve as a reference ("Oh, that there's Joachim. Yeah, he came into town a few years back and started farming turnips. Shame about the crop blight and him losing his farm, but he was never any good at tending it anyway. Quiet guy, you know, except when he gets drunk... you should hear his war stories.")

As to his death... yeah, don't feel guilty about that at all. If they're only level three, chances are good the wizard was not integral to your plot yet (ie, he didn't know anything no one else in the party did, and wasn't the reason everyone was on the adventure in the first place), so replacing him with another character probably won't require too much work on your part.

Definitely don't allow the player to put a carbon copy of the wizard forward. Allowing that would make it seem like you were being apologetic, and really, there's no reason you should be in this instance.


Kolazi wrote:
Eric Tillemans wrote:
If my DM killed off one of the other players, I'd probably quit the game and run as fast as I could. However, if I stuck it out I'd VERY enthusiastic about listening to my DM. So, if your players don't quit on you I'm sure they will listen attentively.

They seem to understand that the wizard made bad choices (he's known for doing foolish things in combat) and I think they liked that "S!&! just got real". We're all in our 20's, so I'm not too worried about hurt feelings.

DeathSpot wrote:
I hate to say this, but the rogue with the panther was right. The wizard dumpstatted his Wisdom, didn't he?

DING DING DING DING! Actually, what he did was totally in character. His character is just a moron.

Quote:
Anyway, if the player learned his lesson, great. If not, the issue isn't that you killed a PC, it's that one of your players has a playing style incompatible with your GM style. You'll probably have to dance-fight or something to solve it, although talking might help, too.
It's more like his playing style is incompatible with his choice of characters. He played perfectly for a half-orc Barbarian or brawler, but he specifically wanted to be a half-orc WIZARD with high INT that carries and AXE and charges into melee. It was natural selection in action.

Also... the next time he mentions playing a half orc wizard who charges into combat (with any weapon), point him at the Magus class. At least then the concept might be viable.


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Eric Tillemans wrote:


If my DM killed off one of the other players, I'd probably quit the game and run as fast as I could. However, if I stuck it out I'd VERY enthusiastic about listening to my DM. So, if your players don't quit on you I'm sure they will listen attentively.

See, it is a skittish attitude like this that make DMs have to attach manacles to our ankles and anchor them under the table...


Yeah, other than the rock (I would have called that non-lethal damage from an improvised weapon), you did exactly what I would have done. You did all you could to give the wizard a chance to live. He was trespassing, aggressive towards an NPC, pulled out a lethal weapon, and at no point tried to do anything but threaten or disable the LAWFUL OWNER of the property.

Not to mention: This dude has 11 hitpoints at level 3 and is antagonizing people without the meatshield around? I call this natural selection.

I would have him roll up a new character, let him be whatever he wants, from a different class to the identical twin brother of the dead wizard. Depending upon how progressed the rest of the party is towards level 4, I would start him either at level 2, with 3/4 of the exp needed for level 3, or at level 3, with the starting gold of a level 2. That feels like a punishment, but it is going to be meaningless after 1 or 2 sessions.


DreamAtelier wrote:
Also... the next time he mentions playing a half orc wizard who charges into combat (with any weapon), point him at the Magus class. At least then the concept might be viable.

Can I interest you in an Eldritch Knight?


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Isn't that a prestige class?
Will this clown survive long enough to get the prereqs?


What now? Why set about killing another player, of course :-)


How in the bejesus did he only have 11hp? Minimum 6 for level 1 plus an average of 3.5 per level nets you 13hp before con mod or favored class bonuses are you giving them minimum hp or did he seriously dump con and wis?

Also a 5ft wall probably wouldn't be full cover therefore allowing for color spray to land, and if it was you should have applied that for the attempt to throw a rock at him which coupled with his improvised weapon negative would make hitting him practically impossible.

Also what kind of poor bumpkin farmer has 300 gold in riding dogs that he lets roam around as guards? For that matter I really hate the pathfinder idea of giving podunk villagers class levels because 1st level characters really make no sense that way.


gnomersy wrote:
How in the bejesus did he only have 11hp? Minimum 6 for level 1 plus an average of 3.5 per level nets you 13hp before con mod or favored class bonuses are you giving them minimum hp or did he seriously dump con and wis?

He did dump con and Wis. Also, he had taken a small amount of damage earlier in the day from falling 10ft that he didn't bother to heal

Quote:
Also a 5ft wall probably wouldn't be full cover therefore allowing for color spray to land, and if it was you should have applied that for the attempt to throw a rock at him which coupled with his improvised weapon negative would make hitting him practically impossible.

The NPC was crouched down below the wall giving him cover from the color spray which the wizard cast OVER the wall DOWN at the ground. Also, since our wizard likes to use color spray in melee I ruled (house rule) that if a person's eyes are closed it has no effect. This means that he can warn an ally who can close their eyes when the spell is cast. Also, he didn't actually hit the hex the farmer was in. As far as the hit with a rock:

AC (11) + 4 (improvised weapon) + 0 for cover (the farmer could see the wizard entirely as he was 20ft away from the wall and the farmer could see over it. here) = only a 15 to hit with a rock. He made that shot handily. and it happened to roll max damage (4)

Quote:
Also what kind of poor bumpkin farmer has 300 gold in riding dogs that he lets roam around as guards? For that matter I really hate the pathfinder idea of giving podunk villagers class levels because 1st level characters really make no sense that way.

Have you ever seen a farmer that didn't have dogs? They're in a rough frontier town and he has two large dogs that use the Riding Dog template. It makes perfect sense to me that a farmer would have guard/hunting dogs for his farm and they would follow him around when he's in the field. As far as his class levels I nerfed him down from what the adventure had written because the campaign called him out as a FTR 3. I like the idea of class levels because it makes it more true-to-life that you'd have some people in the world who used to be adventurers or have picked up skills along the way.

Maybe the farmer had to fight off orcish bands in his youth and managed to pick up a level of fighter in the local militia. Maybe the Tavernkeeper had some run-ins with the thieves guild and picked up a level of rogue doing odd jobs. That old parson who does church service on Sunday? You might not know it but 30 years ago he was a Paladin in the King's service.


Kolazi wrote:

Have you ever seen a farmer that didn't have dogs? They're in a rough frontier town and he has two large dogs that use the Riding Dog template. It makes perfect sense to me that a farmer would have guard/hunting dogs for his farm and they would follow him around when he's in the field. As far as his class levels...

Unless the farmer was 10 feet tall the rules don't support your prd quote, "Low Obstacles and Cover: A low obstacle (such as a wall no higher than half your height)" So a average human at say 5'6" at the time means a wall no higher than 2'9" that he is apparently cowering behind with his eyes closed throwing rocks ...

Also a farmer would have guard dogs which are specifically laid out as not riding dogs per the rules there's a post about it somewhere. And it makes sense since those cost 25gold instead of 150 a pop which means they won't cost more than the farmer makes in like 2 years.

Mind you the player was a bloody idiot and his character deserved to die but at the same time selective and incorrect rules applications are not something players are happy about.

Also the closed eyes thing is ... eh I don't approve but whatever as long as you put the rule out there beforehand, and announced that he's closed his eyes that's fine but it's like power attack if you don't say it, it didn't happen otherwise you get into a very slippery area of "Oh but I totally would have closed my eyes so I ignore your spell"


gnomersy wrote:
Kolazi wrote:

Have you ever seen a farmer that didn't have dogs? They're in a rough frontier town and he has two large dogs that use the Riding Dog template. It makes perfect sense to me that a farmer would have guard/hunting dogs for his farm and they would follow him around when he's in the field. As far as his class levels...

Unless the farmer was 10 feet tall the rules don't support your prd quote, "Low Obstacles and Cover: A low obstacle (such as a wall no higher than half your height)" So a average human at say 5'6" at the time means a wall no higher than 2'9" that he is apparently cowering behind with his eyes closed throwing rocks ..

Keep reading:

Quote:
The attacker can ignore the cover if he's closer to the obstacle than his target.

The wall was 5ft, the NPC was 6 ft and could see 100% of the wizard. He had complete "line of effect" for a thrown rock and managed to overcome the penalties to hit a wizard with an AC of 11.

Quote:
Also a farmer would have guard dogs which are specifically laid out as not riding dogs per the rules there's a post about it somewhere. And it makes sense since those cost 25gold instead of 150 a pop which means they won't cost more than the farmer makes in like 2 years.

Except the module which I'm using specifically said to "Use the Riding Dog Template". See here, the adventure is AWESOME and FREE

Quote:
Mind you the player was a bloody idiot and his character deserved to die but at the same time selective and incorrect rules applications are not something players are happy about.

I've applied rules neither incorrectly nor selectively, as I previously stated. I had to come up with something for hasty decisions about casting area effect/cone spells at the ground and cover for unusual situations, but I did not break any rules. I explained the whole thing akin to the Trayvon Martin shooting (forgive me for the reference) in that the death was senseless, preventable, stupid, and contributed nothing. I kept to the rules as best I could where they applied.

Quote:
Also the closed eyes thing is ... eh I don't approve but whatever as long as you put the rule out there beforehand, and announced that he's closed his eyes that's fine but it's like power attack if you don't say it, it didn't happen otherwise you get into a very slippery area of "Oh but I totally would have closed my eyes so ignore your spell"

I agree with you. He has on several instances asserted that the "sightless creatures are not affected" part of Color Spray means "You have to be looking for it to hit you" and I let him. This is the first time I've used cover to exploit that house-rule, and even so I only gave the spell a 25% miss chance.


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Black_Lantern wrote:
I suggest that you hide the body in your backyard. You could also use a strong base to break his body down to hide the evidence.

Amateur stuff. I suggest purchasing GURPS Mysteries (available in PDF), which has a useful section on body-disposal.

The fact that it was written by my wife is purely coincidental. ;)


Kolazi wrote:
""

No I'm sorry but the second part specifies how you treat an instance of cover which satisfies the first sentence. Specifically noted is "a wall which is no more than half the characters height" in that case you may use the latter section of the rules allowing him to ignore it. But this wall is in fact 5/6ths the character's height I ask you is 5/6 > 1/2?

But given that it does not fulfill that section of the rules it is not low cover it is in fact total or at the minimum partial cover. You're using the cover rules wrong.


gnomersy wrote:
Kolazi wrote:
""

No I'm sorry but the second part specifies how you treat an instance of cover which satisfies the first sentence. Specifically noted is "a wall which is no more than half the characters height" in that case you may use the latter section of the rules allowing him to ignore it. But this wall is in fact 5/6ths the character's height I ask you is 5/6 > 1/2?

But given that it does not fulfill that section of the rules it is not low cover it is in fact total or at the minimum partial cover. You're using the cover rules wrong.

By your interpretation then any archer shooting from behind cover at advancing enemies would grant the enemies total cover if the wall is 3ft high. RAW doesn't make sense. EVEN IF the PC had had total cover (+4 to AC) he still would have been hit by the attack roll.

Liberty's Edge

Skeld wrote:
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Kolazi wrote:
Killed one of my players. What now?
Currently on the phone with the cops. Keep him talking!
Hide the body. Never speak of it again.

I work at a landfill. The place we send the trash to has the furnace so hot it melts bones.

Just saying.


I say there is a lot of potential in him now playing a vicious mastiff with a taste for wizard blood....


Kolazi wrote:


By your interpretation then any archer shooting from behind cover at advancing enemies would grant the enemies total cover if the wall is 3ft high. RAW doesn't make sense. EVEN IF the PC had had total cover (+4 to AC) he still would have been hit by the attack roll.

Actually total cover prevents any ranged attack. So you couldn't throw the rock in the first place. Or you could count it as partial cover if you wanted to stretch the rules a little.

I'm not telling you that you broke the game and should be punched in the throat or anything I'm telling you so you know how to use the cover rules properly in the future because someday that +2 or missed ranged attack will make a difference and if you play it wrong out of ignorance that's not good.

And more importantly yes the RAW makes perfect sense ask any archer in the world to shoot his bow level to the ground through a 5 ft tall wall and he can't do it and the PF rules don't really support volley shooting because it's not really applicable in small combat situations.

This is also the main balancing aspect to archers in the game which is that they suffer when cover is used.


I think you handled the situation excellently. How bad did he dump wisdom? I hate when people think a 9 in something is extremely subpar, when a 10 is average. I would say no to a half-orc wizard, another wizard w/o the clueless factor would be fine. One option would be the newbie had something happen to a family member that he just found out about and somehow ties in with what the group is now doing.

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