Watersinger archetype questions

[Matrixryu]

I'm looking at making a Watersinger for an upcoming campaign, and I have a few questions about how exactly it works. It doesn't help that I've also never played a bard before...

1. Watersong says says that you need to make a 'successful Perform check' to animate the water, but it doesn't say anything about a DC or if you even need ranks in a specific perform skill to use this ability. Should I just ignore this line?

2. Once a watersong performance has started, I'm assuming that it doesn't take an action to move water around on subsequent rounds?

3. Waterstrike says that I can 'spend 1 round of bardic performance to command any water he is currently manipulating with his watersong'. It doesn't mention an action, so I'm guessing that I could use waterstrike to attack an enemy, and then do my own attacks using my standard/move/swift actions?

4. Waterstrike says 'spend 1 round of bardic performance'. Since I have to also be using Watersong to manipulate the water at the same time, I guess this means I'm using 2 round of bard performance every round that I use waterstrike?

5. Is it possible to use feats to improve Waterstrike? This part really isn't explained. I would think that that Weapon Focus should work, but things like Power Attack wouldn't?

Any help is appreciated!

[Matrixryu]

*bump*

Grr, I hate having to ask questions about new classes/archetypes. No one ever seems to know the answers. Here, I'll add spoilers giving more details about how the abilities in question work. I've cut out some bits that are necessary for substituting these abilities in as part of an archetype just in case it is too early to be posting the full quotations online.

Watersong:

A watersinger can use bardic performance to manipulate and control the shape of water within 30 feet. A successful Perform check allows the bard to animate and control a 5-foot-cube of water. The watersinger can command the water to take various forms, bend, rise, fall, or sustain a shape, and can make it support weight as if it were solid ice. For example, the watersinger could create a pillar of water (to provide cover), ladder, channel, bridge, stairs, slide, and so on. .....The manipulated water retains its shape for 1 round after the bard stops spending bardic performance rounds to maintain it.

Waterstrike:

The watersinger can spend 1 round of bardic performance to command any water he is currently manipulating with his watersong performance to lash out and strike an opponent with a slam attack. The watersinger uses his base attack bonus and Charisma bonus to make this attack, and deals 1d6 points of bludgeoning damage plus his Charisma bonus. The attack can originate from any square of water the bard is manipulating, and the water can get a flanking bonus or help a combatant get one, but cannot make attacks of opportunity. The water can make multiple attacks per round if your base attack bonus allows you to do so.

[Cheapy]

1) Ignore the line, IMO. Very few bardic performances require Perform anyways.

2) Maintaining it is a free action, so it takes a free action.

3) Due to this line:

Quote:

The water can make multiple attacks per round if your base attack bonus allows you to do so.

you can basically replace your attacks with its attacks. Think of it as using your actions, but attacking from a square that isn't yours.

4) Yes

5) It gets a bit hazy due to #3. Ask your GM, although I personally would probably allow it.

[Matrixryu]

Thanks! Yea, though I'm a still a bit iffy about #3 you're probably right on all counts. I was just thrown off by the fact it didn't mention any actions for using Waterstrike.

Hmmm, how effective this archetype ends up being will basically depend on what is allowed to enhance the Waterstrikes. If things like Weapon Focus, Arcane Strike, and teamwork feats are allowed then it will actually become a semi-effective damage dealer.

[Burrito Al Pastor]

I'm also curious about how much water you need to animate a square of water. That sounds nitpicky, but it has concrete implications when you think of the question as "at what level can one casting of Create Water create enough water to animate".

Does it have to be a full 5' cube (125 cubic feet, or 1000 gallons, or caster level, uh, 500)? That seems... excessive, and would totally prohibit the use of this ability in situations not next to lakes, swimming pools, or the sea. Does the water have to be originally in the space of 5', or can be it be gathered over a larger area? (e.g. half an inch of standing water over the full 30' radius of the area)

Can you extract this water from some substances - swamp, soups, very heavy fog (2.5 gallons out of a full 30' radius sphere, or 1.27 from a hemisphere if you're standing on the ground), Jell-O, or even water elementals?

[Cheapy]

RAW, I think it's stuck with a 5' cube of water. Which is a bit lame. If there's 5 cubic feet of water spread over an area, I'm not sure what would happen.

But keep in mind that you can just cast Create Water 50 times at level 1 to get a 5' cube of it. Just need to ... carry that around somehow...

It doesn't appear to be a "main" ability, as it replaces fascinate, so I can see it being meant to be situational.

Personally and totally as a houserule, I wouldn't have a huge issue with a player wanting to use create water for this at any amount of gallons generated. Either way, they're going to be spending their actions to either summon the water in combat (standard action) or retrieving a bucket or something (move action). In either event, the amount of water you used would change what you could make it into quite dramatically.

Or you know, just summon a water elemental.