Leveling up NPC's


Kingmaker


I'm currently running book one of this AP, and now starting to introduce the recurring npc's like

Spoiler:
Oleg and Svetlana Leveton, Jhod Khavken,...

It seems to me it would make sense if, during the course of the adventure path, they would level up aswell, but there isn't really much xp for them to harvest. How did you guys handle it ?

I would rather not do it arbitrarily, and I would like the pc's to catch up with major npc's aswell, since they will be 'in the thick of it'. Already made the (non-)character sheets for the above mentioned npc's. I like to keep track of it mostly to have a guideline for what their skills are, should the PC's want to go to them for aid, training a new skill, improving an existing skill and so on.

Or, like in the latest session,

Spoiler:
require the healing skill of Svetlana to stabilize a dying character right after the bandit attack/ambush on Oleg's trade post

so.... any thoughts that could be helpful ?

Silver Crusade

They were pretty much 8/9th level each by the end. Svetlana took levels in Aristocrat, Oleg took levels in expert.

I linked the player's advancement to the NPC's On a 1/2 basis. I.e. when the players levelled to an odd level their NPC'S allies would level up once each. It seemed to work.


I tended to base it more on the amount of time that has gone past. Figuring that each year they had a chance of levelling up, and rolled for it. Jhod for example is about level 11 at the moment, and Oleg and Svetlana are perhaps level 8 or so, with a number of kids thanks to the moonradishes

Silver Crusade

Moon radish is an aphrodisiac?


FallofCamelot wrote:
Moon radish is an aphrodisiac?

Nah, I had it down as an increase in fertility type thing. Tastes horrible, but makes you more likely to have healthy 'swimmers' which I had down as Oleg's other reason for coming to the Stolen Lands with Svetlana, i.e. his shame that he couldn't give her kids. So the first quest when the PC's completed it meant that Oleg and Svetlana had a great chance of starting up a family. 2 boys and a girl as it turned out. Not actually given them names yet I don't think, but its my way of getting the characters a new PC if they were to die.


Oleg deciding to leave and make the trading post in the middle of nowhere always felt like a weak plot thing to me even if he were to be fed up of civilisation. Especially with him not really having much training in the ways of the world in that area. If he had had ranger or druid levels or something it might have made more sense. So I added more to him, and thus in my own head had it that his pride and ego meant that he couldn't stand to be seen to be failing his wife in such a large way, therefore he ran with her from civilisation and made a new life for them both.

So I added a little to his problems and I felt made a better plot for them. It certainly motivated them to explore and find the radishes when a rather embarrassed Svetlana came to them about the problem and asked for their help, and therefore I feel made for a better game in the long term.

Now if only I could work out encounter balance.

The Exchange

I basically keep the NPCs at three levels below the PCs. This allows them to pick them up as a cohort if they wish without overpowering the kingdom.

Haven't had any issues yet.


Shieldknight: sounds ok, but gives a bit of a skewed advancement track for those NPC's that start out at a higher level then the PC's.

FallofCamelot: sounds good... think I'll use it like that

Talon Moonwalker: a bit too random for my likes....

Thanks for the input all, I think FallofCamelot's approach will suit my needs just fine


In my campaign it's APL-1 for the NPCs in the council (Oleg, Lana, Akiros, Kressle, Kesten, Lady Teskertin).

Spoiler:
Jhod started as lvl 11 druid ("he" is one of the Guardians of the Land in my fey-heavy campaign) and will eventually using the same ruling.
Bokken is at APL-2, Tyg and Perlivash took class levels and are at APL-2 as well.
Depending on how my group'll handle some of the other encounters (Old Beldame, Tyrissia&Falchos, Jubilost, Melianse, Munguk) I will apply the same ruling.

Dovan is on the loose and Tartuk as well. To keep them interesting as adversaries.

Works for me and my group very well. Especially, as I need backups to fill the ranks from time to time if players are absent.

Ruyan.

Liberty's Edge

My idea is to advance the member of the council by 1 level every 2 level gained by the PC, while other important NPC advance by 1 level every 3 levels of the PC.

Book of the River Nations add this to the kingdom building rules:

Book of the River Nations wrote:

NPCs: Players may also record NPCs of note in the city. A city should gain a new notable NPC every month the city is in operation until all available slots are filled (4 per district). Half of all notable NPCs should have NPC class levels only.

New notable NPCs have 1d4 levels and each has a 50% chance of gaining a new level every year.
Players and GMs should agree on notable NPCs.

It is not in the official rules (at least not in the second AP with the kingdom building rules), but it seem reasonable.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

It's not official, but I too lean toward leveling certain significant NPCs at a 1-to-2 rate.


I just put a simple 50% chance per module that anyone on the council would level. There were certain people the party wanted higher and took them out on adventures with them and split their experience with the NPC.


I have ideas in my head around some sort of quest-based leveling system that makes it more relevant for the kingdom. Something along the lines of "Each module, every important NPC will have something important to them you can do. They may ask you to do something, or you may find something the'd like, or you may just have to advance their goals. They gain two levels for each completed quest, and they will always boost the stat they're using to help the kingdom."

I haven't actually come up with said quests yet, though. I don't know how feasible it is to come up with a quest per book for for 6-10 NPCs... They don't have to be major. Lily's quest could be repurposed as Svetlana's book 2 quest, for instance. Jhod would like the church in Varnhold rededicated to Erastil as his book 3 quest. It's minor, but means the players need to be constantly keeping their council members in the back of their minds, going "What would make them happy?" It also could be used for plot hooks, and as a easy way to flesh out the NPCs a bit. It also keeps them relevant while not just auto-leveling them.


I've levelled enemies that the party has ignored; six mites and six bandits. The party destroyed the bandits, though it was a close affair (I gave them lycanthropy & 5 fighter levels). The mites have not faced the PC's yet (not since they eradicated half the tribe anyways), but are rebuilding a new kingdom that borders the PC's.

I level recurring enemies to have one less HD than the party level; they should all be weaker than an individual party member, but still quite formidable as a group.


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TBH, at my table the council members are the level that the plotline demands.


Like many people running King Maker, I 'group level' the PCs to ensure they are the right level for the next part of the AP. It means I can remove encounters I don't like (exploration sucks after a few levels) and drop in new encounters (that suit my campaign) into the game fairly easily.

So seeing as I have done away with the individual XP tracking for PCs already - it was quite easy to do the same for NPCs.

Most of the key NPCs in my game advance at about half the rate of of the PCs. Key NPCs are those who are doing something for the kingdom and could be seen to pick up relevant 'story line' experience to feed their progression.

Being a mean DM, I restrict the NPCs to NPC classes. Experts and Aristocrats have plenty of Skill Points to provide good, level appropriate mundane support. Warriors provide a decent back up defence for places and people (set up the melee warriors for defence and then build a few as missile specialists with the right feats to fire over their heads). Adepts provide basic magical cover.

This leaves the PC as The Heroes - something special. The NPCs might be able to survive for a while on their own - but the PC's are needed to really keep things safe and make things work. Without the PCs this new colony would eventually whither away ....

However, I also follow the same philosophy as Pennywit - the NPCs meet the needs of the game. For example, I have an NPC Magus (Her player left the game) who is keeping pace with the party (currently L3, soon to be 4) because I want her to become their source of magic Weapon weapons and armour at L5 - after that she will probably revert to the standard NPC class and speed progression.

All that said, my game has many extra NPCs, some of which are played/voiced by players with non-adventuring motives. Captured bandits have 'turned coat' and have become squires, tailors, blacksmiths (etc) one of them became an secondary PC for one of the players and knocks about with a second (lower level) group of PCs.

It all adds to the growing Campaign Tapestry, adds extra RP opportunity and still gives the PCs a fall back position when they need it.

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