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I was under the impression PCs worked as a team. So, yes, the fighter cannot heal, but the cleric can. PG characters also need people to fulfill their assigned roles in the group as well. They are just refined to the degree that they can do that one job well.
May be I am missing something?
When I play a wizard, I hope to play an arcane spellcaster who is good at her job. If I have a dump stat, I incorporate that into my roleplaying. For example, if I have CHA 8, I am not going to play the character as suave or even sophisticated. I might play it as rude and aloof.
What are the weaknesses you're talking about? CHA 8 is not a game breaker for example, it is a -1 to a die roll. Not exactly the end of the campaign!
I was under the impression PCs worked as a team. So, yes, the fighter cannot heal, but the cleric can. PG characters also need people to fulfill their assigned roles in the group as well. They are just refined to the degree that they can do that one job well.
May be I am missing something?
When I play a wizard, I hope to play an arcane spellcaster who is good at her job. If I have a dump stat, I incorporate that into my roleplaying. For example, if I have CHA 8, I am not going to play the character as suave or even sophisticated. I might play it as rude and aloof.
What are the weaknesses you're talking about? CHA 8 is not a game breaker for example, it is a -1 to a die roll. Not exactly the end of the campaign!
You might also play him as someone who is suave and sophisticated and comes off as a fool. He's the most charming man in...his own mind. Maybe tries to hard? Maybe he comes off as being too showy, or unbelievable. Maybe he's so well mannered that it's off putting. For an example see: The Blue Thunder!
:D
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You might also play him as someone who is suave and sophisticated and comes off as a fool. He's the most charming man in...his own mind. Maybe tries to hard? Maybe he comes off as being too showy, or unbelievable.
True, I am sure we could come up with a long list of ways to play CHA 8. That was just one idea. I have no doubt there might be other ways as well.
However, being a suave and sophisticated infernal teddy bear, we find it hard to play a Charisma score so low! :)
I am interested to see powergaming chars, that break the game. 15 pt build, only races officially named as PC-races. Anyone having links to some?
Preferably around lev 5-15.
Its just that all PG-Chars i can think of have some serious weakness. In situations where the weakness does not matter, they are great, in situations where it matters, the rest of the party must save the day.
Hardly any character can be seriously dominating in ALL the encounters. Still, if 95% of the fights are a joke for it, it is gamebreaking, since he forse you to play 5% of the game.
Think of a fighter specializing in archery: he can one round almost of the enemy of his CR. Later one he will have improbable CMD against disarm and trip, a ring of freedom of movement and will be stopped only by a wind wall (get on the other side) or the fickle wind spell (itself broken it make an entire specialization useless).
Another example would be a human beast totem pouncing barbarian, with dragon stile to ignore difficult terrain, an item to fly all day and superstition for saves unbelievably high. Can you stop him with something at CR=APL? Of course. Can you keep doing that without using the same kind of encounter over and over? No.
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Apart from that problem, what is power gaming about Cha 8 and how oes it break the system?
True, I am sure we could come up with a long list of ways to play CHA 8.
Nothing about Cha 8 is powergaming or game-breaking. Powergaming comes from maxing out one or two stats (usually by dropping others) and then finding ways to combine class abilities/feats in ways that were not intended. The group I play with is very good at that (as am I, actually). Right now in our PFS game that we play together, we have:
My character, a gnome Sorcerer (Crossblooded/Tattooed) 1/Wizard (Admixture) 2 who can do 4d4 + 9 damage with her burning hands spells. Her weakness is Str... last night she took some Str damage and had a Str score of 3 for a while. Ouch.
A Dex-based magus who runs around with an AC of 26 most of the time (thanks to Shield, Mage Armor, and a crazy Dex score) and does magus-y things like shocking grasp for a total of 5d6 + Dex mod damage. His weakness is a lack of ranged attacks.
An Inquisitor who focused on the Snake Style feat, letting him use his sense motive check in place of AC once per round. This usually give him an AC of around 24-32, depending on how he rolls. He rolls high a LOT. His weakness is... I'm not sure actually. I'd have to look at his sheet, cuz I don't think anything has come up with his character yet that I would call a weakness.
In other games I've played a three-armed Fighter/Alchemist, a Cleric who focuses completely on AC and has something like 28 AC at 4th level, and a bunch of others. I enjoy powergaming, personally, and as long as you have a whole table full of them, powergames can be awesome. You just need to increase the effective encounter levels. The hard part with that is increasing it enough to make it challenging but not accidentally killing the players (usually because of their inherent weaknesses).
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I think powergaming doesn't have to be about a whole pc but parts of it.
For example someone who tries to argue that if he has magical lineage (magic missile) and he casts a mercyful magic missile it becomes a cantrip and thus he can do it unlimited time per day is a powergamer, no matter what else his pc can do.
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I think powergaming doesn't have to be about a whole pc but parts of it.
For example someone who tries to argue that if he has magical lineage (magic missile) and he casts a mercyful magic missile it becomes a cantrip and thus he can do it unlimited time per day is a powergamer, no matter what else his pc can do.
Exactly. It's all about finding rules that were never meant to work together and putting them together in ways that exploit their meanings. Good example.
breaking a game is like breaking a stick, you can do it an infinite (countable) number of times but the points where it is broken still make out 0% of the whole stick.
If worst comes to worst, you can always let him fight himself, and I doubt any character can then brake the game, except perhaps diplomacy based breaks.
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Like I said in the thread about banning PG...there are ZERO perfect characters. There are going to be weaknesses and flaws with EVERY character. Its not so much about attacking that weakness, but using the game and creatures to make the game fun and interesting.
I can create a bad mamajama when it comes to Damage, but odds are their Will save or something stinks.
I can create an awesome spell caster and even do it with a bad ass AC, but that one time he gets hit with Drow poison is going to rock his world.
Even expoiters are useless if you never present them with the situation they need to exploit, or put them in situations with Intelligent creatures that can exploit as well.
"powergames can be awesome. You just need to increase the effective encounter levels. The hard part with that is increasing it enough to make it challenging but not accidentally killing the players"
Maybe I'm the one missing something now... if one enjoys powergaming (which from your examples, I take to basically mean having PCs that blow away the enemy), and thinks that PC deaths should only be accidents, why would they want the DM to "make it challenging"? It seems contradictory to want to have a PC that has no weakness and dominates everything, yet also complain the DM doesn't challenge them.
Like in a video game - either play "cheat mode" and enjoy ripping through everything or play "normal mode" and enjoy the challenge. You can't really do both?
Powergaming does not mean "blowing the enemy away".
It means you are a min-maxer. The kind of guy who does the calculations between two feats to discover which one is better.
All PCs have weaknesses.
What I think a lot of the anti-PG stuff is about is that a lot of DMs like to use published adventures, which have encounters built for kind of "average" player builds.
Any PC can be beat by a properly tuned encounter.
As a powergamer turned DM, I can tell you right now that any build can be beaten.
Often people who powergame make excellent DMs and GMs as we already enjoy the act of simply building characters, which extends to encounter building.
I get a near perverse level of joy from building particularly diabolical encounters for my players.
I wouldn't be surprised if you'd find a lot of DMs are powergamers at heart.
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I feel that the recent wave of threads concerned with "balance" and "power gaming" and "brokenness" could all benefit from simple statements of definition. One man's perceived problem is another's "functioning to spec".
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How does he get +8 dex at lev3 and 5d6 from shocking grasp at lev 3? And why doesnt his 3 minutes shield spell end nearly always after 1 combat?
He's actually level 4 (my guy is level 3) so he's doing 1d6 for the scimitar and 3d6 from the shocking grasp. His shield does run out after every combat but he has a wand to re-up it during the first round.
Snake style is supposed to work that way and it is not game breaking that way.
I'm not necessarily saying it's game-breaking, but I do think it should be limited per day. If all the enemies are only getting off single attacks per round, he's getting a HUGE bonus to AC against all those attacks.
Where is the +9 dam from? And you lose 1 level of access to higher spells for that +1 cast level. Sounds balanced.
I have crossblooded (draconic(fire)/Orc) so I get +1 damage per dice from orc and +1 damage per dice on fire spells from draconic. I also get Intense Spells from the wizard school, which adds another +1 damage to each spell. With Varisian Tattoo(evocation) and Pyromaniac I have a cumulative +2 caster level with fire spells. So, Sorc 1/Wiz 2 I cast my Sorc spells as if I were level 3 (Burning hands = 3d6 + 7) and Wizard spells I cast as if I'm level 4 (Burning hands = 4d6 + 9).
Losing one level of spellcasting hurts the wizard a little, but I think it's more than made up with the extra damage per dice, which essentially doubles (or even triples) the damage that I deal to each creature, depending on my rolls. And it's the same spell progression (as far as spell level access) I would have with a Sorcerer anyway.
Now, granted, I have a lot more Sorc spells per day (5) than I do Wiz right now (3), and they won't increase with level, so i'll always have only 3d6 + 7 for those. So as of now I'm using my Sorc spells for damage and Wiz for utility, but that will obviously change as I level up.
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You are mentioning a specific encounter, powergaming is where they dominate most encounters. Eidolon's get 3-4 natural attacks at 1st level and can beef them for damage. Summoner can teleport Eidolon to his position, eidolon with 15ft. reach now makes a full attack killing everything. Of course characters will be slain and most often by a failed will save, but the summoner is extremely OP.
Even worse is the Synthesist. It boggles my mind why Paizo would change Wild Shape specifically to avoid stat physical stat dumping and then release this archetype which allows for the very thing... And is for an already OP class lol.
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To me game breaking is when you have to create special or beefed up encounters to deal w one or two characters in a party who are greatly superior combatwise to the other characters and commonly have only one major weakness, as this means in a normal encounter you will have to either take a greater chance of killing the non PG characters by powering it up or attack the PG character's sole weakness making the game very repetitive as this happens again and again.
Note also, a few exceedingly weak combat characters will cause other problems.
All the players should be "around" the same power level or else problems will arise.
Oh and for Lincoln- to me I guess a problem is an issue that causes a game to run much less smoothly, may require excessive amounts of time or creativity to deal with and detracts from the enjoyment of the game. That should not be considered "up to spec" in any system.
If you use pointbuy and the suggested wealth by level then EVERYONE is equal. There is no adjusted power level. One player is just better at ONE role.
You as a GM do NOT need to break the game to combat them...be creative...stop nerfing individuals.
You as a GM do NOT need to break the game to combat them...be creative...stop nerfing individuals.I agree with your conclusion but I want to quibble with:
If you use pointbuy and the suggested wealth by level then EVERYONE is equal. There is no adjusted power level. One player is just better at ONE role.
That's true in theory and that's the intent of the game design. In theory a feat is a feat is a feat, for example, and you pick ones depending on what you want to focus on being good at and those are your choices. Just as in theory a 3rd level spell is a 3rd level spell is a 3rd level spell and a polearm is a polearm is a polearm.
But in practice there are feats where - lets face it sometimes we wonder what the designers were thinking when they wrote them (because either they're so weak as to be so sub-optimal you can't imagine anyone willingly choosing them over any other alternatives, or they're "Blue*").
In practice, some choices synergize better with others. Players who make a grab-bag of noobish choices are going to make weaker characters than ones who carefully build with a deep insight into how the mechanics work and what will produce a better character.
Note that in pointing this out I am not saying that the more knowledgeable character should be penalized, hampered in some way, or scapegoated as "a power gamer." I'm just pointing out that your starting premise is wrong: all characters and all choices are not equal.
So why am I quibbling here? is it just to be a d1ck and take literally something that you didn't mean exactly literally (of course you know all the above is true, so at best I'm being pedantic and at worst - and I hope you won't interpret it this way - I'm talking down to you).
I'm not trying to do any of those things; just to highlight that, while people may not be able to finger a precise dictionary of "power gamer" (back a bit ago they were called "munchkins" and true us old-timers call them "monty-hall players"): The game-derailing kind of power-gamer is the one who has a knowledge of the rules (but often argues ways to break or "flexibly/favorably interpret them" to that player's advantage), but who looks for ways to exploit unforeseen combos, gaps in the rules, and such in an abusive way, intending to bring them to the campaign table (and not for a fun one-off where everyone is in on it). They don't necessarily help the other players build their characters, but tweek out their own so as to dominate as much of the session as possibly (perhaps not consciously). They are the kind of player who doesn't mind if the DM gets frustrated (rather than has fun), or other players, as long as they're having fun. (This is of course an extreme version). There have been "problem players" in this way for as long as the game has existed, I've played with some (and I've been one a couple times, though mostly because of an "arms race" among players and I've often taken the DM aside and suggested rules changes to fix things*).
*(On the other company's CharOp board, the best choices are "gold" colored).
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If you use pointbuy and the suggested wealth by level then EVERYONE is equal. There is no adjusted power level. One player is just better at ONE role.
You as a GM do NOT need to break the game to combat them...be creative...stop nerfing individuals.
As far as i can see, i only need to flip to the wrong page in some bestiary and they are in danger even as PGs. Saw 2 CR 6 monsters which would be hell of a trouble for the top DPS char in the above linked thread.
Frankly, with one of the monsters, i have a hard time envisioning a lev 10 party of such DPS masters surviving one encounter against 3 advanced versions, if the battle setup is just slightly wrong.
Thats the point...not sure why every GM defaults to a DPR race. OH MAH GAWD I NEEDZ TO DPS MOAR!!1 THROW MOAR MOOKS AT EM!
I run a CoT campaign and I adjusted almost every encounter in that AP to make them more challenging without specifically targetting one guy.
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OH MAH GAWD I NEEDZ TO DPS MOAR!!1 THROW MOAR MOOKS AT EM! MOAR!!!
I Lol'd IRL. ^_^
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Some people claim PG breaks the system, i'd like to see the stats. Whatever PG i tried so far, i always find quickly some monster that still make a non-simple CR=APL encounter.
May be I am missing something?
What breaks the game depends on the GM, and the group.
If you use pointbuy and the suggested wealth by level then EVERYONE is equal.
Not every feat is equal. Not every class ability is equal. Not every spell is equal. That is a core fact of the game, and is the entire point of the "system mastery" concept that's been intrinsic to the system since 3e was first published.
I understand that these sort of debates tend to push the people taking part in them to the extremes. It happens to me often enough. But this is just flat-out false. Not even the developers think it's true.
Overpowered PCs happen. That's why there's an entire section devoted to the concept in the gamemastery guide, with solutions to the issue. That's why there are so many threads on the issue. Sticking one's head in the sand and going "LALALALALALA THERE ARE NO OVERPOWERED CHARACTERS LALALALA" isn't helping anyone.
Insulting the GM's playstyle isn't the answer either.
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If you use pointbuy and the suggested wealth by level then EVERYONE is equal.
Not every feat is equal. Not every class ability is equal. Not every spell is equal. That is a core fact of the game, and is the entire point of the "system mastery" concept that's been intrinsic to the system since 3e was first published.
I understand that these sort of debates tend to push the people taking part in them to the extremes. It happens to me often enough. But this is just flat-out false. Not even the developers think it's true.
Overpowered PCs happen. That's why there's an entire section devoted to the concept in the gamemastery guide, with solutions to the issue. That's why there are so many threads on the issue. Sticking one's head in the sand and going "LALALALALALA THERE ARE NO OVERPOWERED CHARACTERS LALALALA" isn't helping anyone.
Insulting the GM's playstyle isn't the answer either.
Notice I said NOTHING about class or feats?
Its a shout back to the US belief that "every man is created equal". Every character starts out equal...if you make bad decisions and get a degree in "General Studies" or "Communications" then you can't get mad when you don't score the same job that the guy with the "Law" degree. Sorry Charlie but I can't be responsible for your poor decisions...everyone has the opportunity to make a good character.
No clue what you mean by "official" races. If you meant "Races Paizo said are fine for players", then AMY ALCHY is a pretty great stab at it. She has 20 point buy, as that's the normal, but other than that, she's just about matching the fairly optimized greatsword fighter when she's unbuffed at level 5. When she's buffed up, something she can do multiple times per day with only an hour between each use, she's doing 3 times the damage of the greatsword fighter.
She also has enough skill points per level to be a very nice skill monkey. She's got some great utility spells in the form of her extracts, of which she has 4 per day and can make them in a minute. She can be heavily armored too.
She's got great damage, pretty good skills (better than average!), and some awesome spells with an exceedingly versatile method of preparation. Compared to the fighter, rogue, etc. she doesn't have a weak will-save too
To make her fit 15 pb, just need to lower Str to 15, and you'll just -1 to hit and damage, which would affect the damage output, but would also hurt the fighter, keeping about the same distance between them, I think.
She's also 100% RAW legal, as far as I've been able to tell.
Notice I said NOTHING about class or feats?
Its a shout back to the US belief that "every man is created equal". Every character starts out equal...if you make bad decisions and get a degree in "General Studies" or "Communications" then you can't get mad when you don't score the same job that the guy with the "Law" degree. Sorry Charlie but I can't be responsible for your poor decisions...everyone has the opportunity to make a good character.
have to kind of agree here. I play with some who powergame and make powerful characters and others game for the fluff--ie multiclass for fun things and roleplay benefits. Others pay no attention whatsoever to what feats they take and wind up with weak characters.
If a class has an obvious thing which makes it broken look into it--however I have seen claims that archers, summoners, wizards, warriors, gunslingers, zen archers, paladins etc are all broken. So it seems that ANY class can get superpowerful, depending on what traits, feats are taken. Punishing those who do take some more thought into their choices is wrong. An archer would be trying to work on feats to make him better--so picking the best feats makes sense. With that said--a combat oriented build should not complain when they totally mess up an encounter that relies on charisma and they only have a 7 charisma. Likewise a 7 int and 7 wis fighter is NOT going to be coming up with brilliant tactical maneuvers no matter what the player can think up. Just because your average int player can think it up does not mean your below average int character would think of it.
Notice I said NOTHING about class or feats? <snipped> Sorry Charlie but I can't be responsible for your poor decisions...everyone has the opportunity to make a good character.
yeah, and I agree with that, and will never nerf my character when compared to others, but going back to the point of my longer-winded quibble; the RAW inevitably ends up with problems. I mean, the same could have been said about 3.5E, out of which PF grew; but by this logic if someone brings Pun-Pun to a 3.5E game and says to the other players and DMs "hey, I even chose a weak race; sorry, you all had your opportunity to make a good character, I'm just. . .better at it," the only problem is with everyone who won't accept Pun-Pun at their table.
This is why we can't have nice things (anymore). Some people kept (ab)using the RAW on transformation spells (for example).
I mean - in general I'm with you; I really am. I absolutely hate nerfing good builds just 'cause they're good builds. I especially hate how some designers (I don't think any associated with PF) kept coming out with rules or rules exploits for building their favorite Canon-Sue NPCs and high level things but then saying to players in actual campaigns, in effect, "look, but don't touch - these aren't for you lesser beings."
But OtoH, rules-exploiting is an actual problem.
Even worse is the Synthesist. It boggles my mind why Paizo would change Wild Shape specifically to avoid stat physical stat dumping and then release this archetype which allows for the very thing... And is for an already OP class lol.
This. I like the fluff behind the druid a lot more than the summoner; it frustrates me that the summoner outdoes the druid in all the aspects I love.
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No clue what you mean by "official" races. If you meant "Races Paizo said are fine for players", then AMY ALCHY is a pretty great stab at it. She has 20 point buy, as that's the normal, but other than that, she's just about matching the fairly optimized greatsword fighter when she's unbuffed at level 5. When she's buffed up, something she can do multiple times per day with only an hour between each use, she's doing 3 times the damage of the greatsword fighter.
She also has enough skill points per level to be a very nice skill monkey. She's got some great utility spells in the form of her extracts, of which she has 4 per day and can make them in a minute. She can be heavily armored too.
She's got great damage, pretty good skills (better than average!), and some awesome spells with an exceedingly versatile method of preparation. Compared to the fighter, rogue, etc. she doesn't have a weak will-save too
To make her fit 15 pb, just need to lower Str to 15, and you'll just -1 to hit and damage, which would affect the damage output, but would also hurt the fighter, keeping about the same distance between them, I think.
She's also 100% RAW legal, as far as I've been able to tell.
Sorry to keep targetting you Cheapy, but thats cool and all but that Alchemist gets LESS THAN HALF the feats of a fighter. So if the fighter wants more skills he can get em. If he wants more damage he can do it. If he wants more utility he can make it happen, AND he can do it with heavy armor and a higher BAB.
The game is a complicated scale of give and take...so its fair when you pigeonhole yourself to that one role.
Not to mention if I were in a party with an Alchemist that would have to stop 4 times a day to make Mutagens I'd leave his sorry @$$.
"Pun-Pun is really a process more than a character. By exploiting a handful of badly written rules any character with a familiar can achieve ultimate power. Formerly this took several levels to achieve, but exploiting a loophole introduced in Fiendish Codex I they got the Pun-Pun combo down to level one."
Pun-Pun is 3.5E RAW.
PF is officially "backwards compatible."
I am interested to see powergaming chars, that break the game. 15 pt build, only races officially named as PC-races. Anyone having links to some?
Preferably around lev 5-15.
Its just that all PG-Chars i can think of have some serious weakness. In situations where the weakness does not matter, they are great, in situations where it matters, the rest of the party must save the day.
I agree with you that every character has a weakness and I'm afraid I can't help with the build you're asking for. I actually think that weaknesses add to the fun of the game. Have you thought about trying to come up with fun weaknesses for characters that will make for an exciting game? Isn't it part of the fun when the rest of the party help you out, just like it's fun when you get to save them?
Have you come here in good faith?
Or no matter what is posted will you believe it to be balanced?
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How does he get +8 dex at lev3 and 5d6 from shocking grasp at lev 3? And why doesnt his 3 minutes shield spell end nearly always after 1 combat?He's actually level 4 (my guy is level 3) so he's doing 1d6 for the scimitar and 3d6 from the shocking grasp. His shield does run out after every combat but he has a wand to re-up it during the first round.
Spending 1 action per combat and using 25 GP per combat/per day after first combat (assuming he prepares 1 shield per day). As some 20 combats are expected between 4th and 5th level and assuming 5 combats per day, he sepnds 400 GP of the 4500 GP expected to earn on shielding.
I do not see anything unbalanced.
Snake style is supposed to work that way and it is not game breaking that way.I'm not necessarily saying it's game-breaking, but I do think it should be limited per day. If all the enemies are only getting off single attacks per round, he's getting a HUGE bonus to AC against all those attacks.
It costs 1 feat (or 2 if he uses weapon to fight, improved unarmed then wasted) and an immidieate action, which blocks him from using judgement that turn or changing it (the latter he could otherwise do every combat round if desired).
It gives him on average +5 AC vs 1 attack, as he has sense motives +12 and probable 17-19 standard AC.Instead he could spend one feat on +1 dodge AC and 1 feat on Toughness for +1hp/level, leaving him free to spend his swift action on judgement adjustments.
Cannot see anything unbalanced.
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Where is the +9 dam from? And you lose 1 level of access to higher spells for that +1 cast level. Sounds balanced.I have crossblooded (draconic(fire)/Orc) so I get +1 damage per dice from orc and +1 damage per dice on fire spells from draconic. I also get Intense Spells from the wizard school, which adds another +1 damage to each spell. With Varisian Tattoo(evocation) and Pyromaniac I have a
I agree, I don't think we're unbalanced, each character is just very good at one (or a short list of a few) things and have a few weaknesses because of that. As long as your party members can fulfill some of those lacking roles, you're good. The only place we've found that this is an issue is when playing PFS scenarios. We're finding that, overall, our party is above the standard level that we should play (we played a subtier 3-4 last night and destroyed it with little trouble). To rectify this, we're just going to play up a level (so next time we're going to run a 4-5 or maybe even a 5-6).
I think powergaming doesn't have to be about a whole pc but parts of it.
For example someone who tries to argue that if he has magical lineage (magic missile) and he casts a mercyful magic missile it becomes a cantrip and thus he can do it unlimited time per day is a powergamer, no matter what else his pc can do.
Oh that is amusing. :P
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Honestly, if you can't come up with your own powergame characters, you probably won't be able to understand how they work or convince your DM that you aren't cheating. I've seen lots of people at conventions using builds that they got off various boards and they have no idea what they are doing and are less effective than a more straightforward build.
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Apart from that problem, what is power gaming about Cha 8 and how oes it break the system?
I never said CHA 8 broke the system. Go back and read my posts please. CHA 8 is usually the product of dumping a stat to boost another. I simply was trying to make the point that dump stats are okay if you are willing to roleplay them.
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HERE IT IS a powerful build that is easy and fun to play for everyone
our build will do multiple things. Allow armor to be worn, good saves, close to solid bab and access to the top level spells of this list, as well as give you a fun pet to play with.
nothing here is broken just powerful
Level breakdown
1- paladin
2- paladin
this starts us out with some great saves and a few nice abilities to keep us alive (LoH, d10 hd, can use wands of CLW)
3-summoner
4-summoner
5-summoner
6-summoner
this starts us into our casting class working for more power and gives us an eidolon that we use as a mount so we get a +2 shield bonus and +2 to all our saves yeah!!
7-dragon disciple
8-dragon disciple
9-dragon disciple
10- dragon disciple
this gets us our 7th level of summoner spells which means we can now cast 3rd level summoner spells which is full of good buffs and utility. also the +4 strength and +2 natural armor and your pick of a bloodline power is nice. this also qualifies us for eldritch knight at 11th level
11- Eldritch knight and up we go
You end up with the top level spells at 18th level.
a bab of 18, +4 strength,
4d8, 12d10 and 4d12 hit dice DAMN
a 3 hit dice little pet that you can craft into a mount or a scout or a meat shield.