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Is there any wy to play the non-core races (Aasimar, Tengu, etc. . .) in PFS without going to Cons?
Currently no, but option may arise when Season 4 starts at Gen Con.
What those options are, are unknown at this time.
So you know, if the options are not satisfactory for you when Season 4 starts, there are a bunch of Cons near you.
You can PM me for details on them.
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What happens in August that might change?We don't know we only got hints from Mike that how you get other Races will change with the new Season.
I even offered to not post in the PFS forums for 2 whole months if he told us now and he did not bite.
Who says no to offers of me shutting up? ;)
Will murdering your character several times on Thursday get you to shut up?
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Also, any event that seats 15 tables of PFS is available for Prize support, assuming the organizer lets Mike Brock know far enough in advance. It's not a "Con" but if you can get enough people together, then it would be worth it.
Remember three threads ago though, we established that prize support does not necessarily equal race boons and that there are additional requirements for an event to get races in with their boons.
Also it is not terribly useful to talk about this topic until we know what we have to work with in guide 4.2.
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So we are told to start basically our own thread about racial boons. Now that we have one started we are told that it is not worth talking about it now because the newest guide is not out yet.
I want to believe in change and that we as a group of players could change it for the better and make it more equal over all where no one venue gets something else another does not.
Not speaking about it and or waiting for what comes down the pipe is not discussing it. I prefer to discuss and hopefully get the effected change to happen BEFORE the 4.2 guide comes out!
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So we are told to start basically our own thread about racial boons. Now that we have one started we are told that it is not worth talking about it now because the newest guide is not out yet.
I want to believe in change and that we as a group of players could change it for the better and make it more equal over all where no one venue gets something else another does not.
Not speaking about it and or waiting for what comes down the pipe is not discussing it. I prefer to discuss and hopefully get the effected change to happen BEFORE the 4.2 guide comes out!
I'm right there with you wanting to make PFS more egalitarian, especially with regard to the distribution of special boons.
However, in the last month or so there have been an explosion of threads about race boons driven by the ARG. Some of those threads have been productive, but many of them have had to be locked. Mike has told us that something is going to change in guide 4.2, so we just need to wait and see where we are going to be starting from in the new season.
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It had better be Aasimar as a playable race. . .
I don't think it will be a straight opening of the floodgates. Boon races are inherently more powerful than their core cousins. PFS scenarios aren't that hard as is, tossing folks even more power isn't the answer. My guess is that it will be a way besides cons to get race boons.
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It had better be Aasimar as a playable race. . .I don't think it will be a straight opening of the floodgates. Boon races are inherently more powerful than their core cousins. PFS scenarios aren't that hard as is, tossing folks even more power isn't the answer. My guess is that it will be a way besides cons to get race boons.
PFS scenarios are getting harder though. Just take a look at some of the murder machines that they have published in the back half of season three.
I don't really think that "too powerful" is a very good argument for keeping some sort of restrictions on boon races. A better argument would be that it is necessary to keep them as a reward, but broaden the number of ways that you can earn said reward.
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Unfortunately, almost two and a half years of unemployment followed by an over 1,000 mile move for a new job have put conventions out of my reach from a time and money standpoint. The bulk of my PF play is PFS, so there is no real reason to purchase the Advanced Race Guide until such time as I can use it in PFS. I was hoping for more openess when the ARG was released, since some individuals have been playing with new races gained from boons for almost a year now, but that hasn't happened.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I'm right there with you wanting to make PFS more egalitarian, especially with regard to the distribution of special boons.
However, in the last month or so there have been an explosion of threads about race boons driven by the ARG. Some of those threads have been productive, but many of them have had to be locked. Mike has told us that something is going to change in guide 4.2, so we just need to wait and see where we are going to be starting from in the new season.
*nods* Now is the time for patience. If 'race boons' become less restrictive (I'd even say a 'one per star' thing would be an improvement) then there's no reason to continue to fight the same battle. We have our arguments, and if nothing changes then we can proceed from there. If things change and people still feel that it's too restrictive, then we would need to argue the changes weren't enough, and why.
Or as was said recently, "Don't retreat, reload."
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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PFS scenarios are getting harder though. Just take a look at some of the murder machines that they have published in the back half of season three.
I don't really think that "too powerful" is a very good argument for keeping some sort of restrictions on boon races. A better argument would be that it is necessary to keep them as a reward, but broaden the number of ways that you can earn said reward.
This is true. And might be worth its own thread.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Unfortunately, almost two and a half years of unemployment followed by an over 1,000 mile move for a new job have put conventions out of my reach from a time and money standpoint. The bulk of my PF play is PFS, so there is no real reason to purchase the Advanced Race Guide until such time as I can use it in PFS. I was hoping for more openess when the ARG was released, since some individuals have been playing with new races gained from boons for almost a year now, but that hasn't happened.
I'll point out the non-boon races also get a number of options, so at least the PDF may still be worth picking up.
(aside, as much as I'd like the half-drow options for my rogue concepts, I understand why they're not available)
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I'm right there with you wanting to make PFS more egalitarian, especially with regard to the distribution of special boons.
However, in the last month or so there have been an explosion of threads about race boons driven by the ARG. Some of those threads have been productive, but many of them have had to be locked. Mike has told us that something is going to change in guide 4.2, so we just need to wait and see where we are going to be starting from in the new season.
*nods* Now is the time for patience. If 'race boons' become less restrictive (I'd even say a 'one per star' thing would be an improvement) then there's no reason to continue to fight the same battle. We have our arguments, and if nothing changes then we can proceed from there. If things change and people still feel that it's too restrictive, then we would need to argue the changes weren't enough, and why.
Or as was said recently, "Don't retreat, reload."
One per star would be good enough for me. I'd also like to see support for online play at a comparable level to in-person play but that is a slightly different issue.
PFS scenarios are getting harder though. Just take a look at some of the murder machines that they have published in the back half of season three.
I don't really think that "too powerful" is a very good argument for keeping some sort of restrictions on boon races. A better argument would be that it is necessary to keep them as a reward, but broaden the number of ways that you can earn said reward.
This is true. And might be worth its own thread.
** spoiler omitted **
I don't really see this as a huge problem. As long as things like Rats of Round Mountain are the exception and not the norm it will be fine. When run these should ideally have the warning to "bring your a-game" and "designed for experienced players" attached.
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PFS scenarios are getting harder though. Just take a look at some of the murder machines that they have published in the back half of season three.
Yes, but then basically all you are doing is encouraging power creep in the new products that are released down the line. If they open up more powerful races now to deal with difficult scenarios, then later on they have to make even more difficult scenarios to challenge those more powerful races, which leads to EVEN MORE difficult scenarios...and so on until you wind up with PFS turning into an advocacy group for 'monster rights' and they dont allow the core races, cause they are too weak and puny to go on missions without getting hurt. :P
The bulk of my PF play is PFS, so there is no real reason to purchase the Advanced Race Guide until such time as I can use it in PFS.
You will get to use just as many chapters with the core races (meaning basically one per character) as you will with a non-core race (again, meaning one per character).
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PFS scenarios are getting harder though. Just take a look at some of the murder machines that they have published in the back half of season three.Yes, but then basically all you are doing is encouraging power creep in the new products that are released down the line. If they open up more powerful races now to deal with difficult scenarios, then later on they have to make even more difficult scenarios to challenge those more powerful races, which leads to EVEN MORE difficult scenarios...and so on until you wind up with PFS turning into an advocacy group for 'monster rights' and they dont allow the core races, cause they are too weak and puny to go on missions without getting hurt. :P
Yea, but boon races are not highly restricted because they are powerful. I'm pretty sure that they are restricted because the purpose of PFS to Paizo is basically advertising and special races are a proven reward to get lots of people playing PFS in a very visible way at events.
I also disagree that going from PFS scenarios being generally acknowledged as pretty easy to a more challenging standard constitutes power creep. This is still a far cry from LG. When it approaches that level we can talk.
The bulk of my PF play is PFS, so there is no real reason to purchase the Advanced Race Guide until such time as I can use it in PFS.You will get to use just as many chapters with the core races (meaning basically one per character) as you will with a non-core race (again, meaning one per character).
You are missing the point. The point is that only ~1/4 of the book is of any potential use to someone who only has the opportunity to play PFS. It does not matter how many chapters apply to a certain character if three chapters are full of character options that you cannot use.
Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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I'll just point out that 70 pages are open to everyone. While only 54 pages are what the various boons open up. I don't see the Campaign staff ever opening all the races contained in ARG. Over half the book will never be opened (Monster races, race builder rules) So really you guys are arguing over 54 pages, less than a campaign setting book. (And even of those 54 pages, probably 1/3-1/4 is usable by others between equipment and magic items)
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Yea, but boon races are not highly restricted because they are powerful. I'm pretty sure that they are restricted because the purpose of PFS to Paizo is basically advertising and special races are a proven reward to get lots of people playing PFS in a very visible way at events.
I also disagree that going from PFS scenarios being generally acknowledged as pretty easy to a more challenging standard constitutes power creep. This is still a far cry from LG. When it approaches that level we can talk.
I understand the reason they are restricted perfectly well. What I'm saying, and it's fine if you disagree, is that I feel they should always remain restricted (except for maybe the tengu, as it doesnt seem to be any more powerful than the core races to me), if for no other reason than they are more powerful than the core races.
I'm not saying it needs to stay with just con boons either. I've suggested and supported several other ideas, but I understand where Mike was coming from when he was asking for suggestions for something to replace race boons as the big cool thing to get from a con if race boons for handed out in other ways as well.
Also, since this isnt LG, then I am unconcerned with how that goes/went. I am concerned about the state of this game. While opening up more powerful races might not seem like a big deal right now, down the line if/when even more powerful races are opened up, then it might be an issue, which Id like to see PFS sidestep, instead of just pushing right into.
Also also, you are the one who mentioned the fact that there are several 'murder machines' in the second half of season 3. Who is to say that that trend wont continue?
You are missing the point. The point is that only ~1/4 of the book is of any potential use to someone who only has the opportunity to play PFS. It does not matter how many chapters apply to a certain character if three chapters are full of character options that you cannot use.
I'm not missing the point. I understood it quite well. She (I assume by the avatar) wants to be able to us the other parts of the book. But even if she had access to those parts, she could still only use, more or less, only one chapter of the book per character. Yes, when you think about the fact that there are several dozen pages you cant use for PFS with a race boon, it does kinda make the pricetag look kinda steep, but $10 for the pdf doesnt sound like much to me.
Where is the line drawn for how much of the book has to be available before you buy it, though? For example, say Mike announced the open playability of all the elemental race things. Would that be enough of a reason to buy it, or would you (or whoever) still not buy it cause of all of the other races that still arent legal? Did you buy UC and UM? There are large sections of those books that arent legal, and we dont hear (anymore, anyway) lots of people who refuse to buy the book because of it.
Edit: Corrected some grammatical mistakes.
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I've been thinking of this a lot recently, and something I just thought of as an extremely fair way to handle the races would be through the PF Novel lines. I, and many other people can not go to Cons, for whatever reason. I'm military, and for me, due to that and other things, it just is not possible. So, I personally, feel cheated that Cons are the way it works.
But, going through the novels, which are very cheap to purchase, could both regulate which Races an individual can access, comes back directly to Paizo, and encourages both the continuation of that line and the individual players/dms to learn more about the setting.
Additionally, it is a reward for buying the books, and individual books, if they opened up a single race (even if it is a one time thing) would both allow the players to pick what they wanted and also be a better avenue to introducing new possible fans to the game.
Prince of Wolves might open up Tieflings, as an example, but if I have no interest in ever playing a Tiefling I don't feel disapointed, because it's an extra for buying the book, rather than going to a Con and maybe, (unlikely) getting what I actually want.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Also also, you are the one who mentioned the fact that there are several 'murder machines' in the second half of season 3. Who is to say that that trend wont continue?
Um, WE will? I mean no offense to Painlord, but if I see his (real) name on an adventure, I'm really going to scrutinize it, because his style of posting impresses me as the "optimized PC" style of play. If I'm correct, then I'll not run the adventure and mark it down in reviews accordingly. If enough people decry 'murder machine' adventures, then it stands to reason that the guidelines will be updated to discourage them.
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Also, since this isnt LG, then I am unconcerned with how that goes/went. I am concerned about the state of this game. While opening up more powerful races might not seem like a big deal right now, down the line if/when even more powerful races are opened up, then it might be an issue, which Id like to see PFS sidestep, instead of just pushing right into.
Also also, you are the one who mentioned the fact that there are several 'murder machines' in the second half of season 3. Who is to say that that trend wont continue?
I think that the trend is not likely to continue since even in season three there are only two or three super deadly scenarios and starting in season 4 the scenarios will be written with fundamentally different assumptions.
It is ok to have a few "murder machines" for those who like that sort of thing as long as everyone knows which ones they are and they are marked accordingly in reviews.
Also, are you saying that having races that you see as "too powerful" is ok as long as the unwashed masses can't use them in large numbers? Or are you saying that special races should be removed entirely and substituted with the ideas from the new con boon thread?
I'm not missing the point. I understood it quite well. She (I assume by the avatar) wants to be able to us the other parts of the book. But even if she had access to those parts, she could still only use, more or less, only one chapter of the book per character. Yes, when you think about the fact that there are several dozen pages you cant use for PFS with a race boon, it does kinda make the pricetag look kinda steep, but $10 for the pdf doesnt sound like much to me.Where is the line drawn for how much of the book has to be available before you buy it, though? For example, say Mike announced the open playability of all the elemental race things. Would that be enough of a reason to buy it, or would you (or whoever) still not buy it cause of all of the other races that still arent legal? Did you buy UC and UM? There are large sections of those books that arent legal, and we dont hear (anymore, anyway) lots of people who refuse to buy the book because of it.
I paid $10 for the PDF even though I only get to play PFS at the moment. And can only use the one chapter. I also have Blood of Fiends and I might get Blood of Angels, even though I would not be able to use the material in it in the forseeable future, so while I am in the "peripheral PFS players who can't go to cons" demographic I am not on board with the boycott. It seems a little petulant to me. If Mike allowed the elemental races I would be overjoyed, then roll up an undine waterbender bard. I would probably also then shell out the extra $10 for the herolab file since I use herolab to manage all my PFS characters.
The difference between the ARG and UM/UC is that with the previous hardcovers certain options have been illegal for anyone in PFS (mostly with good reason). The ARG on the other hand has a large concentration of options which are only legal for the more elite PFS players who can circulate on the convention circuit and have the various race boons. The rest of us have no change to use said options. The point is the stratification of PFS players, not the contents of the book.
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Also, are you saying that having races that you see as "too powerful" is ok as long as the unwashed masses can't use them in large numbers? Or are you saying that special races should be removed entirely and substituted with the ideas from the new con boon thread?
I dont care if you are washed or not (unless you are playing at my table, lol), but yes, my concern is with the floodgates just being opened on the more powerful races. So, yes, I think they need to remain restricted, though the way they are restricted is still up for debate with me, lol.
I'm ok with them being con boons only, but I understand that not everyone can get to one or organize one of their own. If Mike decided that every time you hit a GM star level, you would get a free race boon, I'd be ok with that as well, along with a couple other options I've seen posted as well, Im sure.
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@Seth: Are you sure the boon races are really more powerful than the core races?
From what I have seen, so far, while playing my Dhampir, he is not significantly more powerful than any other PC race.
His class archetype is where his "power" is coming from, and you don't have to be a Dhampir to benefit from an archetype or class build.
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@Seth: Are you sure the boon races are really more powerful than the core races?
From what I have seen, so far, while playing my Dhampir, he is not significantly more powerful than any other PC race.
His class archetype is where his "power" is coming from, and you don't have to be a Dhampir to benefit from an archetype or class build.
My apologies, Dhampir and Tengu are probably ok. For example, though, both the Aasimar and the Tiefling has Resist 5 on 3 different energy types. That, combined with everything else they get (not to mention the fact that the Aasimar gets +2 to two stats, with no -2 on one) makes them more powerful in the Core races.
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Actually, Aasimar are underpowered, not over. The two +2's are not good stats for +2's, Daylight is very limited, the Energy Resistances are uncommon and do not keep up with the character (whereas other racial traits do like a Dwarves Stability). It looks like it is overpowered, but really is not, even for a Cleric or Paladin.
Tieflings are a little better in those regards, as Darkness does not have a similar 0 level spell anyone can get, and the Resistances are more common and useful, (at least at lower levels), but this is balanced by the +2/+2/-2 to ability scores. Mechanically, Tieflings are very slightly overpowered, but not to the point that they should be restricted, and obviously in Golarion they are a common race.
However, PFS could say that the drop the Resistances and the Spell-like Ability, if that is really an issue. Particularly if, going off of what I said in regard to the novels, the "full" race might still be a boon for special occasions.
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Unfortunately, almost two and a half years of unemployment followed by an over 1,000 mile move for a new job have put conventions out of my reach from a time and money standpoint. The bulk of my PF play is PFS, so there is no real reason to purchase the Advanced Race Guide until such time as I can use it in PFS. I was hoping for more openess when the ARG was released, since some individuals have been playing with new races gained from boons for almost a year now, but that hasn't happened.
I happen to know of one local convention that was free to attend for gaming, offered six slots of PFS, and had a racial boon available. You could have attended for the price of gas, parking and food. All of those costs could have been mitigated or eliminated by carpooling and bringing your own food to the con in a cooler (if you had one).
I normally keep quiet on the monetary issues with attending cons, but I have to say that if you can afford to attend our gamedays you could have afforded to attend the convention.
If you had to work that weekend, then I understand that (and it sucks, I have to work weekends about half the time) but the cost to attend A-Kon this year was minimal.
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Um, WE will? I mean no offense to Painlord, but if I see his (real) name on an adventure, I'm really going to scrutinize it, because his style of posting impresses me as the "optimized PC" style of play. If I'm correct, then I'll not run the adventure and mark it down in reviews accordingly. If enough people decry 'murder machine' adventures, then it stands to reason that the guidelines will be updated to discourage them.
I can't wait to show this post to Baird.
IN YOUR FACE, BAIRD!!!!
-Pain
EDIT: Oh wait, it occurs to me that this poster has likely confuzzled me *with* Baird...and now I'm insulted. ;)
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Um, WE will? I mean no offense to Painlord, but if I see his (real) name on an adventure, I'm really going to scrutinize it, because his style of posting impresses me as the "optimized PC" style of play. If I'm correct, then I'll not run the adventure and mark it down in reviews accordingly. If enough people decry 'murder machine' adventures, then it stands to reason that the guidelines will be updated to discourage them.
If you think that Painlord wants optimized PC's, you don't know him in the least. He loves RP, encourages it at every possible turn.
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I'm going to suggest something. Come up with a cool idea that would make Paizo want to give you boons. For example.
Basically have Mike Brock or Mike Moreland salivating for the opportunity to give you boons because you are so awesome in your promotion of PFS.
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I'm going to suggest something. Come up with a cool idea that would make Paizo want to give you boons. For example.
Basically have Mike Brock or Mike Moreland salivating for the opportunity to give you boons because you are so awesome in your promotion of PFS.
So, who is Mike Moreland? Does Mark Moreland have an invisible twin brother?
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If you had to work that weekend, then I understand that (and it sucks, I have to work weekends about half the time) but the cost to attend A-Kon this year was minimal.
I was scheduled to work that weekend, but it was cancelled at the last minute so I went to UTA. (I think I have been scheduled to work five weekends over the past two months, but only ended up working one. It makes it planning difficult.)
I live in Hungary, I won't ever be able to go to Con meetings I assume, I do consider playing in PFS games through, but on longer term I would be at disadvantage, not to mention to miss out on what others can get is a big negative on emotions and whatnot.
Then there is also the possibility the announcement will have something to do with the incoming online game race choices being tied to PFS, what I would really dislike to be honest.
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I live in Hungary, I won't ever be able to go to Con meetings I assume, I do consider playing in PFS games through, but on longer term I would be at disadvantage, not to mention to miss out on what others can get is a big negative on emotions and whatnot.
Then there is also the possibility the announcement will have something to do with the incoming online game race choices being tied to PFS, what I would really dislike to be honest.
I believe Hungary is on my list of places I'm seeking a VC! You should apply, then you could schedule a local, regional convention, and then we could make sure players all over Hungary have a shot at a race boon!