Pin down + Imp. Snap shot + archers trickshot ability= possible?


Rules Questions


As the title says, I noticed this little combo for my archer fighter, it never looked at it closely till just now. First off,

Pin down:

Whenever an opponent you threaten takes a 5-foot step or uses the withdraw action, that opponent provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If the attack hits, you deal no damage, but the targeted creature is prevented from making the move action that granted a 5-foot step or the withdraw action and does not move.

Snap shot:

Benefit: While wielding a ranged weapon with which you have Weapon Focus, you threaten squares within 5 feet of you. You can make attacks of opportunity with that ranged weapon. You do not provoke attacks of opportunity when making a ranged attack as an attack of opportunity.
Imp. Snap shot increases snap shot by 10 more feet, for a total of 15'.

The archer ability allows a Combat maneuver to be made within 30' at a - 4 penalty to your CMB to their CMD. You can do trip, disarm, sunder, feint, grapple, or bullrush, depending on level and what you choose.

Now, since disarm, trip, and sunder ( since an attack action is a melee attack, it counts) can be used in replace of an AoO attack, do I get to do multiple things here?

Pin down allows me to get an AoO when an opponent I threaten makes a 5'step or withdraws. Since I make an AoO, couldn't I replace that with one of the three options, trip, disarm, or sunder? Now, seeing as how I don't do damage regularly for trip and disarm that doesn't matter, but since sunder mass a damaging attack vs. the items I trying to sunder, it wouldn't do any damage. So then only trip and disarm are options for that?

Does it still work though? They make 5'step, I disarm and prevent their movement.

Edit: also, the volley ability for the archer allows separate attack rolls vs. all enemies within 15', I would think that could also be used with the trickshot ability. Causing tripped, disarmed, or sundered opponents.

Thanks.


None of those abilities change the conditions under which a combat manoeuvres can be made other than allowing them to be done with a bow. It does not say anywhere 'may substitute a combat manoeuvre for any attack'

Bull Rush? Standard action, Sunder Standard action. Trip or Disarm? Substitute for an attack. So with your combo you could attempt to trip or Disarm at -4 as an AOO up to the range that imp snap shot allows.


Mojorat wrote:

None of those abilities change the conditions under which a combat manoeuvres can be made other than allowing them to be done with a bow. It does not say anywhere 'may substitute a combat manoeuvre for any attack'

Bull Rush? Standard action, Sunder Standard action. Trip or Disarm? Substitute for an attack. So with your combo you could attempt to trip or Disarm at -4 as an AOO up to the range that imp snap shot allows.

.. If you read my post, I only said I could do a trip, disarm, or sunder. Your missing the entire point of what I posted. Also, sunder is not a standard but an attack action as part of a melee attack. It has been clarified that the attack action is the melee attack. So it can be used as part of an AoO.

Pin down lets me do an AoO when they 5 foot step or withdraw. Part of pin down says that if the attack hits, they don't get to do that action of movement. Archer ability allows me to do a combat maneuver.

I'm asking if when thy withdraw, I get my attack of opportunity, but can I use the archer trickshot to disarm them and stop their movement?

Liberty's Edge

RAI, I doubt it was the intention of the feat.

With Pin down you get an AoO and trade the possibility to damage someone in exchange with the ability to stop his movement.
With disarm you trade the possibility to damage someone with the possibility to disarm him.

With your idea you trade away the possibility to damage someone in exchange to 2 completely different special effects.


Sorry you quoted all of trick shot so I referenced that. I'll rephrase the based on what you did say.

"now, since disarm, trip, and sunder ( since an attack action is a melee attack, it counts) can be used in replace of an AoO attack, do I get to do multiple things here?"

So your assumption here that sunder can be done as an aoo is wrong, and an attack action is just a melee attack; s wrong. Its a a specific standard action. This means your plan only works with specific combat maneuvres.

As for strictly raw it looks like yes you cold disarm someone and stop them from moving. But good luck with stat with the built in -4.


Mojo rat, you are correct, I looked back on the boards for the ruling or discussion for sunder, yes it is part of a standard. Damn, now that that is the case my sneering barbarian is not as good as I thought before, oh well.

Anyway, it might not be what the feat is intended for but I would think it works, even if with the -4 penalty.


i'm still not sure if it works, or if the disarm would simply replace the stop movement action.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Pin Down works perfectly fine with Snap Shot and is wholly legal.

If you have Trick Shot from the Fighter's Archer archetype, you may disarm, sunder, or trip as well.

You could not use Pin Down AND a combat maneuver at the same time. It's one or the other.

Sunder says it's an attack action, which I think must be an error, as I recall a game developer saying that it could be used on AoO's (such as when sundering potions).


the archer ability replaces the attack, let's say I replace with disarm, with a combat maneuver. pindown does no damage, it never specified the type of attack. a combat maneuver is an attack.

one provides the attack, the other replaces the type.

hmmm, if it doesn't work, pindown with snap shot is still awesome.

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