[ARG] Extraordinary, Spell-like, or Supernatural?


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Nearly all of the new alternate racial traits fail to specify whether they are extraordinary, spell-like, or supernatural in nature. Was this an oversight? Or are they simply "none of the above?" A simple (Ex), (Sp), or (Su) next to each ability name would have made things a lot simpler.


Well, I think there is a rule that, when in doubt, it's an Ex ability.

The Exchange Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Most racial abilities are not really any of the above. For example I don't believe darkvision is considered an extraordinary ability, its just part of the race. Similarly a tengu's claw or bite attack are just part of the creature.

Maybe some examples would help?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

According to the Core glossary, darkvision is extraordinary. To my knowledge, most natural attacks are not generally categorized in any of the three groups.


They're racial traits. They're unmarked because they are natural. For example, there is not activation requirement, spell component or anything to have a racial modifier to abilities. Same for skill boosts/bonuses. Even things like the ability to naturally see better due to your biological nature (Darkvision/Low-Light vision) have no classification.

When found removed from race and identified, say if a spell gave it to you, I can see it being Ex. Ex is for things that are innate in a creature that is non-magical as Antimagic doesn't effect it.

For something like Darkvision, I don't see an issue if in a clinch to categorize it as Ex. It's been my experience that Su and Sp are identified for their type in the racial trait if it should be considered those types.

Owner - House of Books and Games LLC

It is an important question, though ... the effect in game of Ex vs. Sp vs. Su is very different, especially once you start running into things like spell resistance and anti-magic fields.

However, I remember the rule being (as mentioned above) "if it's not stated, it's Ex." The majority of the alternate traits, as I recall, have to do with skill bonuses or other similar adjustments, so they would properly be categorized as Ex, and the ones I see that aren't are often explicitly stated to be spell-like abilities.

@Ravingdork: is there an ability in particular you had a question about?


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Aha! Found it. On page 220 of the ARG, the third paragraph of the Step 3: Racial Traits section states:
"Unless stated otherwise, all racial traits are extraordinary abilities, and each racial trait can only be taken once."

Problem solved.


Not entirely, stuff like this exists on the summoner classes eidolon, and the spells class feature as well, which do these default to?


I'm not sure what you are asking, anon. Are you asking if class features are Ex, Sp or Su? Class features, unless otherwise specified, are Ex. The ability to learn spells, have spells known, use a spellbook, etc. are Ex abilities. They require no magic to do and aren't lost inside an Anti-Magic Field. You may not be able to utilize these features to their fullest extent, but they don't go away. You don't forget/lose all your spells or the ability to cast them when hit with an AMF. Your spells don't work in an AMF, but you still have them. Same with the eidolon class ability. Your eidolon may be unsummoned (as a summoned creature does) but your link to it doesn't go away. You do not lose the class feature in an AMF.

If you are asking if the eidolon's features (claws, grab, skill bonus, flight, breath weapon, etc.) are Ex, Sp or Su, all of the abilities in the APG are clearly marked with Ex or Su. All the abilities in UM are clearly marked as well, with some being SP as well.


Mauril wrote:
I'm not sure what you are asking, anon. Are you asking if class features are Ex, Sp or Su? Class features, unless otherwise specified, are Ex. The ability to learn spells, have spells known, use a spellbook, etc. are Ex abilities. They require no magic to do and aren't lost inside an Anti-Magic Field. You may not be able to utilize these features to their fullest extent, but they don't go away. You don't forget/lose all your spells or the ability to cast them when hit with an AMF. Your spells don't work in an AMF, but you still have them.

That is a meaningless distinction, AMF do not make you forget or loose any SP/SU dependent resources.


Well, you still haven't clarified what your question really meant. I was just tossing out some possible answers to your not-very-specific question.

In any event, the ability to know and use spells is clearly not an Sp ability, as knowing spells isn't subject to SR (creatures with SR would have to constantly be making checks to see if they remember their spells and, by RAW, they'd have to fail those checks to retain their ability to use spells), it cannot be dispelled with Dispel Magic (zapping a wizard with Dispel just removes his protections, it doesn't remove spells from his mind make him lose/suppress the ability to memorize more spells) and learning spells/knowing them doesn't provoke an AoO.

A case could be made for the ability to learn/know spells being Su, as it's not something a normal mortal can do. Except that Ex abilities have this in their description: "Extraordinary abilities are nonmagical. They are, however, not something that just anyone can do or even learn to do without extensive training." Sounds an awful lot like how most casters learn their spells.

With that, spontaneous casters might reasonably have spell casting as a Su ability and prepared casters have it as Ex. However, the rules pretty clearly state that all abilities that aren't marked as anything are Ex abilities.

I'm not sure why it matters anyway. Do you let players/monsters dispel a caster's ability to cast spells, rather than the spells themselves? Do you make them wink out in an AMF? The easiest way to treat them is as an Ex ability.

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