Hey all! My group has been struggling with a few different rules questions and I was hoping you could help me through one of them.
When Two-Weapon fighting (or flurry of blows) in combination with the Haste spell (or other effects that give you an extra extra attack at your highest attack bonus), does the -2 penalty from two-weapon fighting apply to those attacks? (assuming a light off hand weapon and possessing the feat) Also, does it apply to all attacks within the round (as in Attacks of Opportunity)?
For example: A monk in my game uses Flurry of Blows and is targeted by a Haste spell. His normal highest bonus for unarmed strikes is +10 (+8 when flurrying). Is the attack granted by haste at the +10 bonus or the +8 bonus? Does the answer also apply to two-weapon fighting and other instances of extra attacks such as the Monk's Ki Pool ability on page 59 of the core rulebook?
Thanks again,
--Norm
All penalties from two weapon fighting or flurry of blows apply to all attacks made during a full attack.
Yes, the penalty will apply to the attacks from Haste.
Yep, that's how my group always played it.
Thanks guys. That confirms my suspicions. Also, what about attacks of opportunity made while two weapon fighting or flurry of blows? Also, I've got a rules lawyer on my team that is going to practically demand a page reference for this ruling. Could you help me find the passages for these circumstances?
Thanks again,
--Norm
As far as I know, AoOs are done the same way standard attacks are as they are outside the full-attack sequence, while a bonus attack from haste are part of it.
It's the "penalty with primary weapon or standard attack while fighting this way" bit in TWF.
what about attacks of opportunity made while two weapon fighting or flurry of blows?
Two-Weapon Fighting: "If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. You suffer a –6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a –10 penalty to the attack with your off hand when you fight this way."
I'll reduce that:
If you use TWF, you get an extra attack. You take penalties when you do this.
If you're not doing that, then you don't take penalties.
In order to do that, you need to full-attack, which is a full round action. So while performing that full round action, in which you get an extra attack with your off-hand, you take those penalties.
Thus, when you're not taking a full round action to full attack and gaining an extra attack, then you don't take those penalties.
An attack of opportunity is not a full round action, so the penalties will not apply.
A quickened touch spell delivered as a free action after using TWF doesn't take the penalty either, because it's a different action.
TWF penalties only apply to the action used to TWF. Which is the full round action to full attack when you choose to get an extra attack.
Thanks Grick. I appreciate the breakdown. Its not what I expected, but it sounds solid enough. I figured that the penalties from two-weapon fighting were a way to demonstrate the difficulty of fighting with two weapons, and that since rounds are all the same six second lump , the penalties would apply across the board, as you are not making all of your attacks in one instant, you're just resolving them in one instant for the sake of keeping the game coherent. Being that it isn't represented in the rules, I'd be hard pressed to enforce that though. Thanks again,
--Norm
|
Also note that the extra attacks from improved two weapon fighting and greater two weapon fighting are at a -5 and -10 penalty respectively. The -2 from two weapon fighting (the full around action, not the feat) is not factored in. This would imply that all attacks you make as that full round action have the -2 as well.
So a hasted flurrying level 10 monk who just spent the ki point to get an extra attack will actually make 4 attacks at 9(10 -2 +1) + str/dex
|
a normal 10th level monk Flurrying has this for raw attack bonuses per the table:
+8/+8/+3/+3
Haste would make it:
+9/+9/+9/+4/+4
Ki should make it:
+9/+9/+9/+9/+4/+4
The big question is if the extra attack from spending Ki is the same as the one granted by haste, since haste says:
When making a full attack action, a hasted creature may make one extra attack with one natural or manufactured weapon. The attack is made using the creature's full base attack bonus, plus any modifiers appropriate to the situation. (This effect is not cumulative with similar effects, such as that provided by a speed weapon, nor does it actually grant an extra action, so you can't use it to cast a second spell or otherwise take an extra action in the round.)