|
I run PFS games at home with my family, and we're about to run into a small issue.
While I know for APLs that fall between tiers the party can choose whether to play up or down, my group currenly consists of 3 people, with me putting in the pre-gen cleric to round out the group (interestingly, the party has started to get pretty attached to their friend Kyra). The first scenario they are set to play after getting to level 3 is 3-13: "Quest For Perfection Part 3: Defenders of Nesting Swallow."
Having played through this scenario myself, I know that in a correctly tiered party the combat can be either quite brutal or fairly easy depending on how successful their skill rolls are in the prep work (which of course I have no way of knowing unil halfway through the session). To top it off, what tier they play will also determine what level the pregen will be.
I now run the risk of playing down and likely being no challenge at all and the session being boring, or playing up and possibly inflicting a total party wipe on my own family. Anyone have any suggestions for what route I should take on this?
|
I'd suggest playing down. One time when GMing that players had the option to play up or down they decided to play up (party was made up of 2 4s and 4 2s i think). I accidentally killed one of the level 4s as a full round action.
The higher tier might be doable if you skip the optional encounter (where I full rounded that level 4) and if they roll well on the prep work.
|
I find playing down in PFS always dissappointing.
Thus far, the only adventure that was really challenging or "life threatening" on the appropriate tier was "dawn of the scarlet sun".
Quest for perfection is however not really difficult and can easily played up.
The challenge in this adventure lies elsewhere. The players have to think very tactical. And it is very important that you know the encounters inside out and prepare them.
|
I find playing down in PFS always dissappointing.
Thus far, the only adventure that was really challenging or "life threatening" on the appropriate tier was "dawn of the scarlet sun".
Quest for perfection is however not really difficult and can easily played up.
Ever played Rebel's Ransom?
I have to disagree on playing up on this one, MAYBE as Ryan said if skipping the optional encounter. Of course, it will also matter on your party composition. If your 2 level 4s are like a synthesist and a zen archer, you might be ok playing up.
|
|
I agree ... playing up there are 2 encounters that :
anyone that hasnt played their characters together since day 1
knows how each other works and thinks
Synergizes with the rest of the group (trip Monkey with lots of combat reflexes supporting him as an example)
and 5 - 6 players will simply roflsmack the entire group
and 1 is worse than the other
|
My generic advice - I haven't played this specific scenario
If you play with 3 characters and 1 pre-gen as NPC - never play up.
Only if you have strong feelings that it would be a walk-through and that even on higher level they likely will have no problems because of a very strong / synergistic group - you might want to look at it differently.
It is a later part of a multi-parter. So adding a tier 3-4 instead likely won't solve this.
So rather prepare even more as normal. Look for tactics and try to optimize them. Give the enemy every advantage that is allowed without changing the scenario.
Use Grapple if it helps to overcome someone with too high AC.
Use flanking and ganging up
Use the area to the advantage. The enemies likely know how best to use it to their advantage as they likely know the place
Check out all magic, spells, feats, special abilities. Are there some that can shine against your group
So my advice - let them play down - and play hard ball. It can be refreshing for a GM to just play a scenario to it's max potential.
This is better as playing softball or risking a TPK.
And as you have an NPC in Kyra - let her hang back a little bit. Let the other three do the work.
|
|
The challenge in this adventure lies elsewhere.
Honestly, whether QfP3 is hard or not depends on the GM and whether he can run the NPCs properly, with their full abilities. I'm quite sure if I was GMing it, I could kill someone without much of a problem, but when I played it I was never threatened, because the bosses never used their abilities. (Which is fine, I don't like to die).
Imo, the group just turned level 3, it's not going to hurt them to play down. Especially in a group of 3 + pregen. Just prepare really well (read and research all abilities and tactics), play the NPCs well, and include the optional encounter.
The other alternative is to play a different scenario at subtier 3-4 and then go back to QfP3 and say it's a "flashback" (after they get to level 4).
|
|
Thanks for all the input guys. As for note on "let them decide the risk," that's how it would usually work but I know this group, they will ask for my suggestion and there's a pretty good chance they'll go with that.
Like most of the suggestions said, I think I'll play down and see what I can work out ahead of time to make it as challenging as possible (I've already gotten myself familiar with the Defense Points so it won't take forever to calculate). Our Paladin is going to be the most difficult to make it challenging for--by the time he hit level 2 he had already boosted his AC up to 23, so I'll need to find a way for things to hit him (or make him spend his time making sure he can protect his teammates). Grappling and trips and such sounds like a good idea, although it might be difficult because most of their opponents are mounted. Should be simple enough for the final battle though.
|
|
Inform them about bear traps and trespassers boots from Adventurer's Armory... ;) That's what we did.
|
Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
|
Inform them about bear traps and trespassers boots from Adventurer's Armory... ;) That's what we did.** spoiler omitted **
We still went over the time because of the planning, and everyone had a blast. And it made sense because one of our players (my wife) was playing a trap specialist rogue/ranger. She was quite excited that she got to really get into the flavor of her character. I believe the four of us each bought 10 of each trap. We took pictures of the battlemap with red X's being bear traps and blue being the boots. :) There were a lot of X's to be sure...
|
|
That's the beauty of the scenario... The village has a purchase limit, and the traps are quite cheap...When did you buy all those traps?
I don't believe with the way the scenario starts, that you have time to purchase anything.
Purchase guidelines are just that, guidelines, how many of an item that can be purchased is GM discretion. Just because the village purchase limit is set at 1250g, doesn't mean the farmers have 50 weapon cords, 50 wrist sheaths, 50 everyburning torches, or 50 surgeon's tools. Maybe a few, that's it. Same with the traps.
The only way the villagers would own that many traps is if they were hunters, not farmers. And if they were hunter, they wouldn't really need the PCs help in the 1st place. And they certainly wouldn't need weapons training.
If the PCs are hopelessly outmatched, sure you can allow it, but if not I'd allow only a few to be purchased.
Also, regarding tactics, after the 1st 1-3 guys hit traps, there's nothing to say that the rest of the troops have to continue advancing like a bunch of morons either. The troops could burn the village down at range (to open a spot for horses), and scout (on foot) a location without traps. The traps should be obvious if a cautious approach is taken (+5 Perception).
I don't mind the idea of traps taking over the scenario for an underpowered party, but for a regular party I think it would be more fun if the traps didn't defeat every encounter. I also think it would be better if the opponent was a little smarter than a bunch of guys going into a minefield, wave after wave. Come on.
|
Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
|
Also, regarding tactics, after the 1st 1-3 guys hit traps, there's nothing to say that the rest of the troops have to continue advancing like a bunch of morons either. The troops could burn the village down at range (to open a spot for horses), and scout (on foot) a location without traps. The traps should be obvious if a cautious approach is taken (+5 Perception).
I don't mind the idea of traps taking over the scenario for an underpowered party, but for a regular party I think it would be more fun if the traps didn't defeat every encounter. I also think it would be better if the opponent was a little smarter than a bunch of guys going into a minefield, wave after wave. Come on.
|
Additionally, just because a purchase limit is 1250gp and the base value is 250gp, doesn't mean the village will have as much of an item (even standard mundane items) as the PCs could possibly purchase.
As Jason said, a farming village under monthly attack by bandits is likely not going to have 50 bear traps laying around to sell.
The abstract nature of the resource management accounts for creating traps, by making Craft (traps) or Disable Device checks as one of the ways to increase defense points.
If you all had fun with that, then of course, that's the main thing.
But as a GM, I wouldn't allow the purchase of more than a couple bear traps, because having 50 doesn't make thematic sense for the village or the circumstances. Additionally, it derails the point of the scenario.
|
|
Jason:
I do not understand your statement "The traps should be obvious if a cautious approach is taken (+5 Perception)."
are you trying to say that a person would get a +5 on perception if they were "using a cautious approach"? if so, where do you get this? and what's a "cautious approach"? half speed?
The Tengu bandits (mooks) have a +5 Perception (at subtier 1-2, at subtier 4-5 it's +10!). I'm just saying that if they charged in on their horses (50' move = at least 100' per round), they'd never see the traps with a -10 Perception penalty because of distance. If they were within 10', they're almost guaranteed success (DC 15 Perception, not even including bonuses because there is no where to hide these traps around a cleared village).
You don't make one roll for all of the Tengu, with 2-3 rolls per trap, they're going to find them (regardless if they can take 10 or not) if they're not charging in (and taking distance penalties) like I said.