Paladin is supposed to handle the following how exactly?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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LazarX wrote:
No... I don't think this community can. Optimisation mentaility is guaranteed with any game that is has builder focused as d20.

Its the community, not the game. Reckon if all you gave them was a loaf of bread and a tub of butter you'd still get an optimisation thread up within minutes.

Silver Crusade

White or wheat?

Shadow Lodge

Pah! Kill the sorcerer - provided you have offered plenty of previous warning and have explained your reasons... enough of Paladins being emotionally bullied into thinking they should act one way or another... KILL THEM!!! (in character always! ;-)


There are definitely role play ways to handle this rather than asking the player to leave or killing the character. Sometimes that can grow organically over the course of a game, but not after one event. Perhaps your character is suspicious and watching the other characters closely going forward. I would suggest being proactive in the future in letting the other character know how you feel by protecting the "innocent" or at least verbalizing when encounter starts Then you will know if they are intentionally walking a path to darkness or not and deal with it appropriately. I'm not a huge fan of PVP as a method of solving in character problems. Long term all it does cause bad feelings.


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Immediately following the fireball the Paladin could have rushed to aid the burning vicitms despite the danger of possible giant spiders. Anybody still squirming could get a LoH and if theres a cleric, the paladin could request help.

After the encounter, while everyone else is looting, a sullen Paladin could be giving last rights, and gathering the bodies for a journey to town.

There is no need for direct confrontation until judgement is passed. The paladin need not question the sorcerer. What was seen was evidence enough of wanton cruelty, and senseless murder. From me he'd get silence and an icy stare.

Carrying the bodies back to town in a respectful manner, finding the victims next of kin or liege, and swearing a witness statement should be sufficient atonement for traveling with this murderer, and being slower on the draw. Wether or not the town reacts to this knowlege is up to the GM, but if a bounty is offered for the miscreant caster, the paladin could take the job for free.

I'm not a paladin, but in RL that's what I'd be doing.


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Mikaze wrote:
White or wheat?

Anyone with a shred of system mastery uses wheat bread. White bread is a trap.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I would put the caster on notice.

Tell him that this is a quest for good that will not be marred with the slaughter of innocents. Tell him that you are watching him and the next time he kills innocents out of malice or recklessness he had better target you because next time he will have to answer in blood.


I did like the janitor form scrubs I turned to him and said "that's one"


I say you did the best thing you could, referenced other forms of fantasy. All these people crying for death are forgetting all the times Superman got into it with Batman over MO. That's the joy of roleplaying. Or how about Watchmen? Or Avengers? There is no right or wrong way to handle anything that is purely roleplaying.
If everyone followed an eye for an eye, the world would be blind.


Nope, one will successfully get off the last eye-gouge and have the last functioning eye.


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3.5 Loyalist wrote:
Nope, one will successfully get off the last eye-gouge and have the last functioning eye.

And as another old saying goes, "In the land of the blind a one-eyed man is king."


No I think i need to force by value system down his throat at gunpoint that is the way a real man deals with his problems. either that or heavy Drinking....or sports....or nevermind


Maybe 10 years ago I was playing a lawful good ranger in a 1e game. We were doing the Isle of Dread. There is a scene where you are going through a cave system where cavemen live. One room was full of their women and children / old people. Scared of us, they started throwing rocks and crap while we go through. Well, one of them hit the party invoker with a "bowl of fire" for about 4 points of damage.

At this point, he had enough. He had take 4 points of damage so he replied with a full blown fireball and blew up the room. So I turn around and kill him, and manage to chop his head off before the cleric could get back.

The GM wasn't having it though. He had a devil appear who restored the wizard to life so he could complete the deal they had. Now I really wanted him dead but I knew there was no way I could kill him.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

Jess Door wrote:
(the mirror stealing PC was a female charisma caster of some sort played by a guy, and he played her as a nymphomaniac that would try to sleep with monsters mid-fight...),

Perhaps he wants to increase the number of half-orcs in the world using his character? And half-fiends, half-dragons...

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

Chengar Qordath wrote:
Mikaze wrote:
White or wheat?
Anyone with a shred of system mastery uses wheat bread. White bread is a trap.

Sourdough says otherwise.


Lobolusk wrote:
I did like the janitor form scrubs I turned to him and said "that's one"

Good palidan!

Give him the potential benefit of the doubt, a clear suggestion for redemption, and be hilarious for it! alignment: Lawful Win
Maybe i jsut like the janitor too much... dude's hilarious


1:Try and save the people on fire and maybe give them a service if not possible
2:Converse with the caster asking him if he knew that they were alive and assert that there was a better way to handle it....a good paladin creed is words 1st,sword 2nd..they have diplomacy and cha
3:If the caster cannot be swayed with words its up to you to travel with him to guide him
4:Let it go...its difficult enough for the pally watching his own actions much less trying to control his party...it would be foolish of the dm to punish the pally for not wrecking the group and seeking a non violent way to keep the adventure going


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Shifty wrote:
Its the community, not the game. Reckon if all you gave them was a loaf of bread and a tub of butter you'd still get an optimisation thread up within minutes.

Is the butter flammable?


Hudax wrote:
Shifty wrote:
Its the community, not the game. Reckon if all you gave them was a loaf of bread and a tub of butter you'd still get an optimisation thread up within minutes.

Is the butter flammable?

The butter is way to calorie intense. Margarin is the obviously better choice. Worse than calories is how much fat like Omega 3s and Cholesterol are in butter. People need to quit acting like anything that tastes good is good for them.


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i had a teammate who assassinated an npc while it was effected by sleep, lets just say my pally didnt take kindly to that, so i knocked the little a-hole unconcious dragged him to the magistrate i knew and trusted through in game roleplaying, sent him to jail for murder. man that table got hot quick, but it was so worth while lol.

play your paldin how you want to, deal with the concequences when they arise, and make sure you keep it in game.


Good on you man, don't cut a murderer slack when playing your pc because they are your buddy out of game. Hang em high, may the good gods have mercy on their soul.

Yeah, in one game, the necromancer player got arrested for killing the seneschal and trying to take his job. We were all employees and heroes of the realm. We just knew he would try to escape, and the party was divided. So my char guarded that cell till the execution along with the standard npcs. Managed to discourage one of the other players from breaking him out. I thought we were against evil, but some wanted to save their buddy. The killer thought he should be broken out and not face justice. He tried to escape on the way to the block, damaged people greatly with his negative bursts, got killed and his body then executed funnily enough.


Black Powder Chocobo wrote:
Chengar Qordath wrote:
Mikaze wrote:
White or wheat?
Anyone with a shred of system mastery uses wheat bread. White bread is a trap.
Sourdough says otherwise.

Well, if you're gonna bring in all the splatbook material...

Silver Crusade

cranewings wrote:

Maybe 10 years ago I was playing a lawful good ranger in a 1e game. We were doing the Isle of Dread. There is a scene where you are going through a cave system where cavemen live. One room was full of their women and children / old people. Scared of us, they started throwing rocks and crap while we go through. Well, one of them hit the party invoker with a "bowl of fire" for about 4 points of damage.

At this point, he had enough. He had take 4 points of damage so he replied with a full blown fireball and blew up the room. So I turn around and kill him, and manage to chop his head off before the cleric could get back.

The GM wasn't having it though. He had a devil appear who restored the wizard to life so he could complete the deal they had. Now I really wanted him dead but I knew there was no way I could kill him.

I have to question if dropping the fireball into a room of assailants was and evil act... Sure they were woman, children and the elderly but they were also enemies attempting to cause harm and who had caused injury. Goblind are generally no larger than a child and no stronger either and a 4 damage hit from a goblin is a pretty good hit for one of them so I dont see the issue.

From a paladins point of view..
were the cave people aggresive?
Were they evil?

If anyone of these is a yes the paladin should have no problem with the mage putting an end to the threat and/or evil.


Live prisoners should be rescued and setting them on fire is a horrendous act of evil. The paladin is fully justified in subduing the sorcerer and taking her prisoner.

Out of game this might cause tension but the sorcerer player is the one who created the incident and if she's going to become irrational and act radically out-of-character whenever the game is not keeping her fully entertained then she needs to shape up or leave the group.

If the player argues that she was acting in character and that her character was always capable of great evil then she bears responsibility for 1) choosing to journey with a paladin and 2) choosing to manifest great evil in his presence knowing full well that he would have to bring her to justice or kill her if necessary.


Cennedi wrote:
cranewings wrote:

Maybe 10 years ago I was playing a lawful good ranger in a 1e game. We were doing the Isle of Dread. There is a scene where you are going through a cave system where cavemen live. One room was full of their women and children / old people. Scared of us, they started throwing rocks and crap while we go through. Well, one of them hit the party invoker with a "bowl of fire" for about 4 points of damage.

At this point, he had enough. He had take 4 points of damage so he replied with a full blown fireball and blew up the room. So I turn around and kill him, and manage to chop his head off before the cleric could get back.

The GM wasn't having it though. He had a devil appear who restored the wizard to life so he could complete the deal they had. Now I really wanted him dead but I knew there was no way I could kill him.

I have to question if dropping the fireball into a room of assailants was and evil act... Sure they were woman, children and the elderly but they were also enemies attempting to cause harm and who had caused injury. Goblind are generally no larger than a child and no stronger either and a 4 damage hit from a goblin is a pretty good hit for one of them so I dont see the issue.

From a paladins point of view..
were the cave people aggresive?
Were they evil?

If anyone of these is a yes the paladin should have no problem with the mage putting an end to the threat and/or evil.

If they are all enemies trying to kill the party, I'm in agreement. In some games I play, not all gobilns are selfish and evil. Players can very quickly just pass judgement on an entire race. I remember a lawful good fighter/cleric who decided to allow the destruction of an entire lawful good lizard folk community. The reason was that one of the elders didn't treat him politely. Granted the elder lizardman was a historian and the character dropped an important historical piece. Mass murder of those who do not deserve it can happen very readily with players. Seen it quite a bit.


Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Cennedi wrote:
cranewings wrote:

Maybe 10 years ago I was playing a lawful good ranger in a 1e game. We were doing the Isle of Dread. There is a scene where you are going through a cave system where cavemen live. One room was full of their women and children / old people. Scared of us, they started throwing rocks and crap while we go through. Well, one of them hit the party invoker with a "bowl of fire" for about 4 points of damage.

At this point, he had enough. He had take 4 points of damage so he replied with a full blown fireball and blew up the room. So I turn around and kill him, and manage to chop his head off before the cleric could get back.

The GM wasn't having it though. He had a devil appear who restored the wizard to life so he could complete the deal they had. Now I really wanted him dead but I knew there was no way I could kill him.

I have to question if dropping the fireball into a room of assailants was and evil act... Sure they were woman, children and the elderly but they were also enemies attempting to cause harm and who had caused injury. Goblind are generally no larger than a child and no stronger either and a 4 damage hit from a goblin is a pretty good hit for one of them so I dont see the issue.

From a paladins point of view..
were the cave people aggresive?
Were they evil?

If anyone of these is a yes the paladin should have no problem with the mage putting an end to the threat and/or evil.

Yeah, murdering a terrified people trying to fend off intruders into their home is perfectly acceptable for a paladin. /sarcasm

If that were the case, Paladins could kill whoever they wanted simply by entering their homes and provoking an attack with their presence.


Raving Dork, pretty much. We were in their dwelling, basically taking a short cut. I'm not sure that I should have done that as a lawful character. It is definately a ding against me.

Furthermore, there is a difference between a credible attack from a dangerous enemy who will do evil later, and a comparatively feeble attack from an enemy that will relax if you leave.


sooo If I am hearing every body correctly don't hit my friend in the face with a tire iron after the game? but shoot him in the face during the game for killing spider swarmed people meat?


Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I wouldn't.


Ravingdork wrote:
I wouldn't.

wouldn't what tire iron to the face or pistol to the face they are mercifuly enchanted


Imo Paladins are basically knights, and I subscribe to the "A song of fire and Ice" notion that knights are for killing. Paladins are killing machines imo nothing more noting less....and I love Pallies!


Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Lobolusk wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
I wouldn't.
wouldn't what tire iron to the face or pistol to the face they are mercifuly enchanted

I wouldn't intentionally hurt anyone in real life or get onto the sorcerer for burning a bunch of faceless cocoon thigns.


Lobolusk wrote:

that is murder in my mind. but people are responsible for there own actions and as a paladin I understand that not every body is lawful good. but how do I resolve this with out PVP or Lawful stupidity.

the thing is the sorc has run into this before and knew damn well there were bodies in the cocoons,

That's the fun part of role playing, there is no 'correct' answer to this.

You can meta-game this a bit and say the sorcerer 'didn't know' if you want to keep the group in tact.

You can play the paladin to the hilt and arrest the sorcerer (I think it's more manslaughter than murder, although I think you could prove a wanton disregard for the possibility that people were in the cocoons.) and put him on trial (and let the chips fall based on the jury or local noble or whatever). The GM should support you if this is your decision.


Blake Duffey wrote:
Lobolusk wrote:

that is murder in my mind. but people are responsible for there own actions and as a paladin I understand that not every body is lawful good. but how do I resolve this with out PVP or Lawful stupidity.

the thing is the sorc has run into this before and knew damn well there were bodies in the cocoons,

That's the fun part of role playing, there is no 'correct' answer to this.

You can meta-game this a bit and say the sorcerer 'didn't know' if you want to keep the group in tact.

You can play the paladin to the hilt and arrest the sorcerer (I think it's more manslaughter than murder, although I think you could prove a wanton disregard for the possibility that people were in the cocoons.) and put him on trial (and let the chips fall based on the jury or local noble or whatever). The GM should support you if this is your decision.

we are in the middle of a hidden city deep in the Mwangi expanse I have neither


Morain wrote:
Imo Paladins are basically knights, and I subscribe to the "A song of fire and Ice" notion that knights are for killing. Paladins are killing machines imo nothing more noting less....and I love Pallies!

I would agree with you in part on this. obviously in Songs you only have your honor and your lord's honor whether you keep to your words. Some do some don't. Pallies can lose their abilities mid combat for an ethical decision. A much higher level of accountability they are being held to. I like the challenge. Holy warriors who won't cross the line.

One of the things I liked about the series was how low in regard that many of the Northmen held knighthood because so many didn't hold to their words. Or with the watch and how casually some held to their oath. For a Paladin their oath is their life.

Silver Crusade

I would recommend not killing the sorcerer. If it is out of character for the PC to be so reckless, then the paladin might want to think about how he deals with the situation.

In many cases, the paladin may be the only 'authority' in the region. If the sorcerer is an ally and a friend, the paladin will probably not go down the PvP path. Taking the character in for trial and punishment could be an option.

The paladin could warn the PC and delay acting until they return to town. Once back in a settlement, the paladin could take actions to make sure the sorcerer atones or is punished for the crime.

I do not see the paladin as responsible for the actions of the sorcerer, but he is in a position to do something. If he does not act and reasons it away, that would be a problem for me. However, if he is in hostile territory and is unable to bring about a resolution (without killing the sorcerer) then he will have to wait.

Just because he cannot punished the sorcerer now, does not mean he cannot warn him that his actions are not just going to be forgotten. It might create some tension, but the paladin should be upfront about what he intends to do (or the sorcerer's player might be savvy enough to figure out that the paladin will not let the matter rest in the long term).


Lobolusk wrote:


we are in the middle of a hidden city deep in the Mwangi expanse I have neither

This is kind of the sticking point here.

I don't really see what you CAN do.

Your in the middle of NOWHERE...No law... no authorities...Nobody to appeal to or incarcerate him... Nobody to make 'ammends to'

the middle of NOWHERE....

Take the authority on yourself? How? Why?

Is the sorcerer in any way legally required to recognize your authority? If he's not from your city... not from you religion... not duly appointed under your command from a higher authority...

then NO, you have no legal right to execute, and he has no LEGAL right to follow your instructions to the letter.

And if you DO kill him... all you've done is dropped the party from standard 4 to 3 and jeapordize whatever current universe shattering quest your on. SOMETHING has to be pushing your this story... is it worth potentially killing EVERYONE in the group, because you don't agree with how he treated the 'possible' captured victims... that were wrapped up next to plenty of DEAD coccoon... and he made a judgement call that you didn't agree with...

In my opinion... at the LEAST this would fall under the 'working with Evil to battle a greater Evil'...

IF the character was actually EVIL... Not every Evil act makes the character EVIL... and there are plenty of good RP possibilities here. Their friendship may never be the same again... But Paladins should not be judge and executioner... unless they have a legitimate NEED to be.

Frankly, these groups are groups of individuals with their own goals, motives, and codes... Paladin is ONLY responsible for his OWN.

Silver Crusade

BltzKrg242 wrote:
Jess Door wrote:

I had a paladin in a new group. This group...was not being very friendly (they had two characters prepared for me to choose from and play - "The B~!!~" (paladin) or "The Slut" (sorceress).

Yes. Those were the names they had for characters for me.

Anyway, we were fighting vampires, and my character (given the way things started off, there was no way I would play a character the group considered "fair game" in this group...so I picked the paladin) handed one party member my mirror to use. After the fight, the character wouldn't give back the mirror.

"What're you going to do about it?" the player said with a smirk. "You're a paladin, you just have to sit there and take it, or you'll fall."

Well. I was fine, at this point, with burning bridges. I simply smiled and said "I will arrest you, and drag you back to town to stand trial for theft. If you resist, I will be forced to subdue you. If the rest of the party wants to assist a thief, I would be forced to defend myself from their misguided defense of a criminal. Or you could give me my 10 gp mirror back."

My paladin got her mirror back. I was informed by the GM that "his game already had too many players". Heh. Like I would want to come back and play with this group of jerks again anyway. But...that is always an option. there's a point at which you are probably going to be forced to say "Choose, guys. Either this murdering sorceror is your friend...or the soldier of righteousness."

Sounds like a stack of immature a*holes. It's jackmonkeys like that that make the very few female RPGs player skeptical and drive some of the curious folks away.

When you were handed those two options as player characters, you should have just up and left without a word. It was bound to get stupid.

You said "Jackmonkey".


Lobolusk wrote:
we are in the middle of a hidden city deep in the Mwangi expanse I have neither

Fair enough. What's the culture like? Are murders summarily hung, or are they jailed and 'rehabilitated'? The culture of which the paladin is a member might be helpful to see what 'normally' happens. In the wild, I can see the paladin enforcing 'justice' on his own, but at the risk of party (and table) unity. If this has happened before, I (as GM) would have no issues with the paladin handling this in any way he saw fit (and I have a number of paladins who would deal with this via his sword).

Just my thoughts...

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