[Advanced Race Guide] Half-Drow Paragon and Drow Nobility Chain

[Discomancer]

So I was designing a Half-Elf character and noticed the Half-Drow Paragon feat:

Half-Drow Paragon:

Prereqs: Drow-blooded and drow magic racial traits, half-elf

You count as a drow for any effects that relate to race. Furthermore, the spell-like abilities granted to you by the drow magic racial trait count as drow spell-like abilities for the purposes of qualifying for feats.

Does this mean that a Half-elf who takes this feat can qualify for the Drow Nobility chain? I only ask since the Drow Nobility chain all require the character to have the prereq of 'drow'.

I suppose the question to ask really is: are feats considered effects in relation to races? Because, if not, I see no reason to take the Half-Drow Paragon Feat as it appears to have no real value as there aren't any other feats that have the prereq 'drow spell-like ability'.

Can anyone give me a quick ruling (preferably with a source)?

[blackbloodtroll]

You count as drow, but you still do not have their spell-like abilities.

[Discomancer]

Well the feat requires that you take the drow magic and drow-blooded racial archetypes, so you would be assumed to have them (sorry for not writing that bit in).

But thank you for your speedy response. Do you happen to know where it says that feats count as 'effects' relating to race? Or by being both human and elf are you considered to be a drow? I only ask as neither the drow magic nor drow-blooded actually SAY you are a drow.

...or does this feat just take care of that as well?

[Azten]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

You count as drow, but you still do not have their spell-like abilities.

Um...

"Furthermore, the spell-like abilities granted to you by the drow magic racial trait count as drow spell-like abilities for the purposes of qualifying for feats."

Granted, I haven't read to the Drow section yet, but it seems to me like Half-Elves are set to get the Drow deats if they take Half-Drow Paragon.

[Discomancer]

@Azten and BBT: Awesome. Thanks, guys. I just re-read the human feat "Racial Heritage" and that describes feats as 'effects relating to race', so it would seem that, yes, half-elves are good to go.

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

Sorry to necropost this, but I've recently had this question myself and what made me wonder, and what makes me necropost this...

The feat says "Count as drow for all effects"

But what is an "effect"? Is a feat an "effect"? The Drow Nobility chain all require you have Drow Spell-Like Abilities AND to be Drow...

[mysticbelmont]

If i have both alternative racial traits, do I have to take Half drow paragon to take the Drow noblity feat chain?

[reyyvin]

mysticbelmont wrote:

If i have both alternative racial traits, do I have to take Half drow paragon to take the Drow noblity feat chain?

Probably not. At some point in the past before the ARG was released, Paizo ruled that Half-elves and half-orcs counted as neither human nor (elf/orc) for the purpose of taking racial feats. About a year after ARG was released, Paizo flip-flopped on the issue. In my mind, that would make the feat redundant.

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qf9

If you have both drow racial traits, you can be "drow descended." The fluff in the description says you have "dark elf parents." (should be parent... if both parents were dark elves, you would be one too). As a DM, I would interpret that to mean "half-drow." With current ruling, I would count that as being Human and Elf (Drow) for all effects.

[Samasboy1]

Neither Drow=Blooded nor Drow Magic changes how the Elf Blood trait works, so even with both traits you still count as "elf" not "drow."

Elf Blood wrote:

Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race.

Drow-Blooded wrote:

Some half-elves born of drow parents exhibit more drow traits than others—particularly many of the physical features of the drow—and have darkvision 60 feet and light blindness. This racial trait replaces the low-light vision racial trait.

Drow Magic wrote:

A few half-elves with drow ancestry exhibit the innate magic of that race. Half-elves with this trait have drow blood somewhere in their background, and can cast dancing lights, darkness, and faerie fire each once per day, using the half-elf's character level as the caster level for these spell-like abilities. This racial trait replaces the adaptability and multitalented racial traits.

Half Drow Paragon wrote:

Prerequisites: Drow-blooded and drow magic racial traits, half-elf.

Benefit: You count as a drow for any effects that relate to race. Furthermore, the spell-like abilities granted to you by your drow magic racial trait count as drow spell-like abilities for the purposes of any feat prerequisites.

Drow Nobility wrote:

Prerequisites: Able to use drow spell-like abilities, drow.

Benefit: You may use detect magic as a spell-like ability at will, and add feather fall and levitate to the spell-like abilities that you may use once each per day. Your caster level is equal to your character level.

So I still see a reason to take Half Drow Paragon.

[HectorVivis]

^^^ This.

You need to count "as drow" to take drow feats. It's fun to see you can then take the drow's favored class options then.

Hmmm, I want to do a half-drow now.

[Samasboy1]

Yeah, me too.

[Kersic]

I apologize, but this thread seemed to be the most pertinent... so,

"Arise and live again!"

The recent release of Blood of Shadows offers several new Half-Elf specific alternate racial traits.

Two of these new traits seem to provide half-elves access to the Drow Nobility feat without requiring the Half Drow Paragon feat. You would no longer gain darkvision, but you would also not gain light blindness.

Drow Heritage wrote:

Half-elves with this trait count as drow for the purposes of any effect related to race, including prerequisites. This racial trait replaces the ability to choose any language as a bonus language, instead limiting the character to the bonus languages offered to drow.

Lesser Spell-Like Abilities wrote:

Half-elves with this trait can cast dancing lights, darkness, and faerie fire once each per day. The caster level for these effects is equal to the user’s character level. This racial trait replaces adaptability and multitalented.

I'd like to read your thoughts on whether my RAW interpretation is correct on this.

[David knott 242]

I am a little puzzled that they came up with the Lesser Spell-Like Abilities alternate racial trait, as it is identical in effect with the Drow Magic racial trait.

The main issue I am seeing here is the apparently unnecessary language in the Half-Drow Paragon feat that says, "Furthermore, the spell-like abilities granted to you by the drow magic racial trait count as drow spell-like abilities for the purposes of qualifying for feats." Both Drow Magic and Lesser Spell-Like Abilities grant the exact same spell-like abilities that a standard drow gets, so why wouldn't either of them count as drow spell-like abilities for prerequisites?

On the other hand, if that statement is actually meaningful and necessary, then there would be no way for a half-elf without the Half-Drow Paragon feat to qualify for the Drow Nobility feat chain.