Having Trouble Deciding What to Play in a Caveman Game


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He hasn't decided yet if he's going to let us roll for abilities or do pointbuy, but lets assume the latter for right now. I can sub the rolls later if need be.

30 pointbuy.
We haven't decided what the racial features on the Wolf would be yet. All we know is no weapon/armor proficiencies, at least low-light vision, Scent, some form of natural armor (my AC will suck otherwise) and appropriate natural attacks.

Doing Druid/Rogue (probably scout variant), may dip 2 levels into Fighter if I need feats. Starting Level 3 (so Druid 2/Rogue 1). I'm not allowed damage dealing spells considering that I will have an effective natural attack.

When looking at the Wolf entry in Beastiary, he is naturally more dextrous than strong. Rogue should compliment this well, and I may try to play up the idea of Combat Maneuvers. I've been watching Herding Trials, Schutzhund, and Agility trials.

Feats I've considered:
Combat Expertise
Improved Feint
Dodge
Mobility
Spring Attack?
Agile Maneuvers
Improved Grapple
Improved Trip
Iron Will
Run?
Skill Focus (Perception)
Skill Focus (Stealth)
Power Attack
Improved Bull Rush
Improved Initiative


Why isn't my post showing up? Crap.


This one?

Nepherti wrote:

He hasn't decided yet if he's going to let us roll for abilities or do pointbuy, but lets assume the latter for right now. I can sub the rolls later if need be.

30 pointbuy.
We haven't decided what the racial features on the Wolf would be yet. All we know is no weapon/armor proficiencies, at least low-light vision, Scent, some form of natural armor (my AC will suck otherwise) and appropriate natural attacks.

Doing Druid/Rogue (probably scout variant), may dip 2 levels into Fighter if I need feats. Starting Level 3 (so Druid 2/Rogue 1). I'm not allowed damage dealing spells considering that I will have an effective natural attack.

When looking at the Wolf entry in Beastiary, he is naturally more dextrous than strong. Rogue should compliment this well, and I may try to play up the idea of Combat Maneuvers. I've been watching Herding Trials, Schutzhund, and Agility trials.

Feats I've considered:
Combat Expertise
Improved Feint
Dodge
Mobility
Spring Attack?
Agile Maneuvers
Improved Grapple
Improved Trip
Iron Will
Run?
Skill Focus (Perception)
Skill Focus (Stealth)
Power Attack
Improved Bull Rush
Improved Initiative


Yes, my computer isn't showing it for some reason. Thanks.


Something to do with the page jump from 51-100 to 101+, maybe? Your post is at the bottom of 51-100.

EDIT: Oh snap, it's gone now! Okay, well, I saved it for you in the quote...

Most strange.


Probably, oh, and we haven't figured out what to do with Wild Shape yet, since that's really not going to work for the concept. I don't mind not having it, but what could be a comparable substitute?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Feral Combat Training, Dragon Style, Power Attack, Aspect of the Beast, Lunge.

Do not go Rogue. It will hurt you greatly.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Are you going more caster, or martial?


It depends on how many spells I have access to.


Nepherti wrote:
Probably, oh, and we haven't figured out what to do with Wild Shape yet, since that's really not going to work for the concept. I don't mind not having it, but what could be a comparable substitute?

People Shape. ^__^


He turned that one down.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Well, that depends on what you want to focus on.
Martial combat, or spellcasting.


No, because he hasn't decided how he's limiting magic, only that I am probably not allowed to take damage dealing spells, only the healers and the buffers. I have to see how many of these spells are available and if it can complete a spell list adequately. I also don't know for sure which level he's cutting off spells, only that 7-9 are out for sure.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Ranger or Inquisitor is the choice option for you then. Martial classes with some spellcasting to back them up.


Why will Rogue hurt me greatly? Looking at the Rogue Talents, a lot of them could easily be pulled off by a wolf. Also, why would a wolf be an Inquisitor? What is her Inquisition? Plus, he's planning on taking away Ranger Spells, forcing them to use Ranger Tricks.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Rogue is a weak class, and if you want to be rogue like, the Urban Ranger does it all better.
Inquisitors of Nature gods, exist.

Lastly, never let the name of a class define you, ever.
Your build and flavor do that.
I have played "ninja" characters, that had no levels in the ninja class.


I just don't see the judgements as working for what I'm going for. Plus, Ninja is a broader term than Inquisitor. I also don't see the Rogue as a weak class.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I could play any class, and define myself as an Inquisitor. I would not need levels in Inquisitor.

Time tested, the rogue class proves weaker.

What exactly do you want from the rogue class?


The Talents. Plus, the Scout Variant sounds fun for a wolf, since I'll probably be doing a lot of that anyway.


Or I might do Thug.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

The Guide Ranger, will have greater synergy with the wolf. So will the Inquisitor. You can choose nature themed domains that will fit the concept, and be quite useful.

Which talents particularly interest you?


You could play a talking ape that could tell cavemen to "get your hands off me you damn dirty human!" but you have to talk like Charlton Heston. Ok this wasn't totally serious, but I did think it was funny.


Bleeding Attack, dog bites can be nasty (I know from experience)
Camouflage
Canny Observer
Fast Stealth
Surprise Attack
Wall Scramble
Powerful Sneak
Offensive Defense
Ledge Walker
Iron Guts

I know I won't have enough Levels to take all of these, but this is the first narrowing.

EDIT: After looking at Guide, it does sound cool. I was turned off, initially, by Ranger though, because I didn't want my sheet to overlap with another party member's.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Just bear with me. Take a look at the Inquisitor. It is a very versatile class. You control the flavor, you do not need to play a class in a specified manner.

By the way, all talents listed can be done by other classes.


There is a feint-specialized rogue in the party I GM for who routinely puts up good damage.

BlackBloodTroll, I'd say if the GM is allowing a wolf as a PC, we may be outside the realm where class effectiveness comparisons are truly warranted.

For my part, I think Ranger would be a wolf-appropriate class, but probably has too much overlap with racial abilities... it wouldn't be the "optimal" choice, but having "Scent" is probably going to overshadow whatever tracker your party does have. Might as well embrace it.

It's a shame there isn't a wolf class... (my burning wheel books are really worming their way into my head, methinks)


Well the other ranger will probably be either an archer or twf and you can't do either of those. So I don't think the overlap would be that great.

But I think you might enjoy druid more (at least I would) or multiclass druid ranger.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Well, the idea of a Inquisitor of Jezelda the shape-shifting demon lord of werewolves and mistress of the moon, just sounds too cool.
The Night or Deception domain would be fitting. The bonus to tracking, identifying foes, and intimidation are fitting too.
The judgements and bane ability are easily flavored as a declaration of it's prey.
The Inquisitor is a hunter, and thus, quite fitting.


What if your worg was analagous to Prometheus, brining the gifts of nature magic and animal companionship to this proto-world?


Jezelda won't work for the concept. My wolf is not primarily a hunter. She's meant to be a wise, loyal companion. She doesn't see humaniods as prey, necessarily, unless they give her reason to attack. She's docile. She needs people. Inquisitor is just not going to work for what I have pictured. Strongly thinking about the Guide Ranger, though, maybe throw a single level of Witch in (I am my own familiar for this purpose, I'll argue) to get the Healing Hex.


Me and Mr. Nepherti also discussed replacing the wild shape druid gets with favored terrain (a version of it, at least).

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Is there no healer in the group?


The group isn't formed yet, but the healing has nothing to do with them, just my concept. She will come in during the first encounter and save a life by healing him. The only other guy is a savage skald who plays a wardrum. The others are most likely going to pick fighter and barbarian if the past repeats itself.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Maybe replace wildshape with boosts to natural armor or DR X/silver?

Maybe you should think about what role you want to play in the party, and then select your class, feats, and skills based on that.

I think the Spring Attack feat tree would be great for a wolf, it was great for my 3.5 druid's animal companion wardog. Too bad you can't combine it with Vital Strike, RAW. If you're smart enough, take Combat Expertise and the Improved Trip and Greater Trip feats. Combat Reflexes, Improved Natural Attack, and Tripping Strike might be useful too.

The inquisitor is a pretty fun class. It has 2 good saves, 6 skill points, 6 levels of divine spells (so you can be a healer if you want), and fun class abilities that you can use in combination to get interesting effects.

Maybe try being a synthesist summoner and model it on the loup-garou. Use a wolfskin as a focus, and the eidolon-armor thing as your wolf form.


The First Dog is a loyal companion to Man. She scouts ahead, tracks, and will step in to defend her human pack. All she wants is acceptance by them, even if all she ever is is Omega. I picture more the healer/buffer, combat maneuver user, but moldable.


Does she eat things that are alive and run around?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

So, like Comet the Super-Horse, but as a wolf?


No way, more like Krypto!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Well, Comet the Super-Horse wanted to make Supergirl his bride, so it's a bit different.


Giggity?

Naw, I think the loyal companion man's best friend type fits Krypto more than Comet. Your full of wrongsauce, BBT!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Sorry, it's just the previous posts began to sound like, um, people of peculiar tastes, talking.
I was a bit afraid of where it was going.


lol, I see where you get that from. So if you get to human shape could you truly become man's best friend?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

BAZING!


Capppptainnnnn Cavvvveeeemannnn !!!!!

Sorry couldnt resist a salute to the old cartoon, Captain Caveman.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Nepherti wrote:
The First Dog is a loyal companion to Man. She scouts ahead, tracks, and will step in to defend her human pack. All she wants is acceptance by them, even if all she ever is is Omega. I picture more the healer/buffer, combat maneuver user, but moldable.

Sounds like you want Perception, Stealth, and Survival, possibly Intimidate (to scare off threats), Sense Motive (to detect stranger-danger), and maybe Heal or Diplomacy (to make friends).

Sounds like inquisitor, ranger (with hunter's bond with your companions), rogue, bard, or druid.

You can use a wand of cure light wounds, like a dog with a bone. :-)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Yeah, I still vote for Inquisitor. Erastil may be a more fitting god, with the whole nature, community, family thing.

You do not have to worship a god though, to be an Inquisitor.


The Caveman plot is meant to take place in the distant past of the Campaign Setting he's designed. When Mr. Nepherti runs a game that takes place in the present, complete with normal Pathfinder spells and equipment, those characters will come across cave paintings of the player's old characters from the caveman days.

That being said, Erastil might actually work for some part of this, since we have already established the dog as being a common avatar of Erastil (think the Fable 2 dog).


ah, 10'000 BC, where good looking cavemen fought off dinosaurs and then went through a jungle to pay a visit to egyptian pharaos.
That movie gave me a permanent int penalty, I felt dumber for watching it.

Apart from that I would go with rogue, and take favored terrain. Stealing was probably invented way before the first humans came around, and stabbing someone in the back not long after.


An interesting "dog" option could be to create an ancestor from before the canine family split into canine, lupine, and vulpine with traits from all 3. (I'm not sure about this but have a vague memory that ursine could be on that list too as there was a creature commonly called a beardog in prehistoric times.)

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Or a proto-carnivore, taking traits from canidae, felidae, mustelidae, pinnipedia, ursidae, etc. etc.

Amphicyonidae were the bear-dogs.


SmiloDan's name gave me an awesome idea.

Suggest to the GM that your character should have a saber-toothed tiger nemesis.

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