Director of Brand Strategy
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Judging by recent reviews, I've gathered that folks have taken very well to one of the more experimental elements of this season: the increase in roleplay-heavy scenarios. But since not everyone makes reviews (either for things they like or against things they don't), I wanted to start a conversation with the community on this specific topic.
How do you feel we've done in recent scenarios—namely
Be sure to use spoilers when discussing a specific scenario, please.
Thanks for the feedback, folks!
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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The Temple of Empyreal Enlightenment
My players, on the other hand, would all say that it was really hard, and a few of the new ones would say that it was too hard. Hard to the point that when they were all dying, no one was having fun. A nearby table was playing the 1-2 with 6 players, and still had two deaths from the last fight. Although I think they enjoyed the challenge.
Perhaps keep on trucking as you guys are, but label a handful of S4 scenarios as "challenging" or "advanced"? I'd hate to see this trend end, because I am enjoying the new difficulty curve being introduced at the tail end of S3.
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Of the scenarios you mentioned, I have only run God's Market Gamble, so I don't know how much sway my voice may have. But I really enjoyed it.
As for the encounters within, I wish they were a bit more balanced. You have a simple fight against generic thugs and an interesting trap encounter that, while fun to play through, can be beaten by anyone with a decent perception or who are lucky enough to use the right path. The theft scene can be fun, but with neither sister really into the theft it can easily be ended with 1-2 actions. And then there's a really really mean BBEG, which happened to cause my first ever player death (whom I ironically joked about killing). I know BBEGs are suppose to be tough bosses, but the scenario is almost too easy before her. The first three encounters are ~3-4 on difficulty and the BBEG is ~8-9. If the fights were a little more balanced it would improve on the flow of the scenario.
All in all, I would certainly enjoy more non-standard (ie. hack-and-slash) scenarios. But not to any extremes. Sometimes its fun to just stab anything that moves and not worry about why we should stab them. =)
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I GM’d God’s Market Gamble.
I played Temple of Empyreal Enlightenment
Overall, I think that things are moving in the right direction for the amount of RP vs. combat, and the more difficult fights, are really fun, even if really hard. Made us really pull out some lesser used tactics to win the fights.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I've GMed God's Market, and read through the other two.
They all have role-playing elements in them, but not any more than, say, Frostfur Captives, Sewer Dragons of Absalom, Kortos Envoy,Song of the Sea Witch, Quest for Perfection part 3, Immortal Conundrum, Haunting of Hinojai, or Midnight Mauler. Season 3 seems to emphasize role-playing opportunities, with a collection of well-motivated and well-written opponents who don't immediately attack the party, and atmospheric and evocative settings and situations.
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I played God Market's Gamble and I really enjoyed the mix of role-playing and combat. I agree that
My other favorite scene was when the rogue in the party
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Played God's Market Gamble
It had an interesting plot, and so I liked it until we got to the meat of the action.
The chase scene was undramatic, a labor. Ranger 3rd, but Wizard, Paladin, Magus, Druid otherwise, all 1st level. If it wasn't for superb rolling, most of the party would have been stuck in the 1st third of the chase because all but the Ranger (who rolled poorly) needed very high rolls for either roll in several sections.
I also found it too abstract. Oddly, the best way to get through is to carry each other. "Here, we have to be diplomatic so I'll carry you until we have to 'handle animal', then you carry me."
We didn't do that, but sadly it would've worked. In a chase scene.
It had no feel of a chase, but rather a haphazard collection of skill checks with little recourse for fresh thought. (Roll-playing at its worst.) We slipped in a bit of comic commentary, but otherwise it was 'roll, next, roll, next' for what felt like an hour.
Working outside the box (paying admission to bathhouse, walking around bathhouse to close off rear, having those in lead call out where in the city they are, etc) only leads to difficult GMing (at best).
And, since it's easy (and safer) to assume the chase leads to a fight, who really wants to get ahead of their allies?
At first level...nobody.
And the fire was unbelievably difficult to stop. At the rate it spread, and with us split up trying to cover the exits, there was no possibility of dousing it. It became a panicked run at round two.
That fire wasn't a 'backdrop' but a full threat three of us were caught in. Having the BBEG ambush us so depleted was brutal. The BBEG would've TPKed us if we hadn't had the 3rd level Ranger and his CLW wand.
(The other two fights were fine.)
I think at the higher tier, the module would probably make for a better experience, but at 1st it was imbalanced, and left a sour feeling in my mouth.
Does anyone like chase scenes?
I forget the title of the scenario, but we were hunting a werewolf. When we got to the part where one werewolf runs, our Witch Glitterdusted him at the get go.
The GM and another player (who was ghosting as 4th man for no credit) had played it. Both sighed in relief because neither wanted to go through the chase scene. They'd had a horrible time playing through it before. They went on to explain how arduous that would have been.
Zero for two.
Just saying.
I don't know the Temple scenario, but did run Red Harvest.
First off, I liked the RPing and all the different personalities and voices I got to play even if I used my hands too much for handless NPCs. :)
One of the players commented how we got to have some good role-playing, but mind you that was in the context of the module ending flat.
It wasn't exciting. (Except that they saved that farmer.)
Evoker, Conjurer, Monk (tripper vs. untrippable BBEGs), and Bard (buffer), so they had the skills and player experience to see the situation very clearly.
But then what?
Play with Team Hydra against Team Monkey (yeah, I'm masking them from cheaters) or vice-versa. Get off either railroad, and it's a mess.
Players predicted the second 'quest' right after learning the first, so no originality there.
Trouble arose because they wanted nothing to do with either team, blaming both sides for the conflict. (rightly!)
They only wanted the book, and felt that if anything they should be siding with the peasants. Unfortunately there's no 'Team Peasant' story option, unless you take on both teams, which can easily mean failure for your mission! (And who's going to know how much killing is permissible?)
Facilitate peace with the Bard's really high Diplomacy? Nope.
Whittle down both sides with guerrilla attacks on their troops? (Ah, crap, had to improv about how quickly they re-recruited or we'd have had tons of small, improvised battles.)
Call the government? Nope.
And seeing as the PCs are in a strange land, acting somewhat as ambassadors for PF, they didn't want to start assassinating on behalf of questionable NPCs.
So...
Hours later, well past what we could've done at a conference, they ultimately decided to attack the side they (incorrectly) thought was more evil-aligned with one stating "History's written by the winners, so it doesn't matter which side we choose."
We were strapped for time running a very complex battle. Not good.
So, yeah, while there was enjoyable RPing as they investigated and interviewed, neither railroad actually appealed to the PCs.
So they kept interviewing and investigating, until they realized they had to choose one of the railroads.
In the end they had nothing invested in either option except to finish the module (and go home).
Since there was no reasonable way for a PC to suspect the Monkey can be separated from his Snake or that the Snake could be ambivalent, they took them all on in one shot.
Easily. Three rounds. Tons of prebuffs and surprise made sure of that.
(Though if I'd rolled better with the Monkey, or had a x4 crit with a follower, it might have turned the whole battle.)
As one player put it, "So in the end, it's just a dungeon crawl?"
Needs:
-Timeline of actions by enemies (to push the PCs or to add verisimilitude) There should be a point where both sides get fed up with them, or suspect they're going to the enemy.
-Headquarters with room for baddies to maneuver. Their tactics only flourish outside, and try putting all the NPCs in the warehouse in any tactical way. cough-cough-deathtrap-cough-cough
-Team Peasant options besides snatch and run(which really is too easy given Dim Door option, with very little deduction)
-Options for spying by both forces (Both Hydra and Monkey have spying abilities, so why aren't they using them?), so that maybe the baddies can be ready for a scry-and-die attack.
-Option if everyone's a Lantern.
-Numbers of troops, if they do decide to whittle.
I think the author did well in recreating the Red Harvest scenario, and the villains/dangers therein, but did a poor job accounting for actual PC motivations and tactics.
Imagine this at a conference where strangers took opposing sides. Then what? That could take forever to resolve. Heck, they might even rat on each other.
On the other hand, it's too easy for a determined group to prebuff and blow through with little suspense.
I recommend this module only for the villains and interviews, but not for the battles (anticlimactic due to player awareness), the poorly chosen maps, and not for conferences.
Outside of PFS, it'd be an excellent module because the GM would have more freedom to make a bloodbath finale or a mini-campaign around it, and could make new maps and have the villains act more aggressively.
Sorry for the ramble, but I had this all pent up for its own thread when I ran across this one.
I do vote for the sentiment of RPing balanced with tougher battles, but after experiencing those two modules, I wonder how feasible it is given time constraints and player variability.
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Played God's Market Gamble
** spoiler omitted **Does anyone like chase scenes?
** spoiler omitted **...
That chase scene one was Midnight Mauler...
I like the idea, but rolling that many times, you are bound to screw up with a bad roll. When we went through both chases, I did pretty well on the God's Market, but not on Midnight Mauler...
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TBH: I love it! Being a "storytelling" GM, I prefer to spend more time storytelling and less time looking through my Core Rulebook to run an adventure. These last few releases have totally been loads of fun to run, as not only are we teaching important gaming rules like: Wait for the rogue to check for traps, don't split the party EVER, and always respect and stay within 30 feet of the cleric. But we are also encouraging RPing and character development instead of min-maxing and getting to the end of the module.
Now I know that there are combat heavy players, and for them, I always try to make the combats interesting so that they don't feel left out. But at the same time, I usually know who they are and I give them a big heads up. Many times they are cool with it and just go with it. But many times they will not sit with me and go to another game or they will head home cause they don't have the energy to RP. (many times due to exhaustion from work/school)
I highly enjoy all of these balanced adventures, as they make players believe that their work is more than just "errand running". Which at the lower levels makes players more inclined to stick it out and get to the higher tiered adventures where all the real fun and epic stuff happens.
Keep up the good work Paizo team and Society Writers, you're setting the bar higher for those of us who wish to join your ranks.
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I just read through the God's Market Gamble thread and have to apologize to Dennis, the designer (and a childhood friend of mine) because I am now certain the GM did not fully understand the module, especially the last two encounters which were pushed into one. Meaning it was only the chase scene that was flawed, and Dennis was smart enough to make the chase optional (bless me Dwarven heart).
(Of course, Dennis does go by "Ogre" so maybe it's his Giantish dislike of Dwarves that made him include a chase scene.)
That said, the feedback against chases on that thread (for GMG's, but also against Midnight Mauler's) is very strong, even though many also enjoyed them.
Any thoughts for revamping chase rules?
Even if it's only to restate the 'creative solutions are great' clause in the PFS guide or create a "Guide for Making Balanced Chases" on the submissions page, something needs to done.
Even venture-captains are mentioning how they tweaked/softened the rules to allow players to enjoy the chases.
At this point I'd like to know which modules have chases, if only to avoid them.
And as always, even when unspoken, thanks for requesting our input.
JMK
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I've spent some time trying to make the chase rules fun -- explaining the obstacles, letting players find alternate solutions, urging them to help one another, and all -- and it still mostly falls flat, like we've suddenly started playing a board game.
I'm convinced that part of the problem is the mechanic that says "If you accomplish both A1 and A2, you skip to square D." It makes no sense.
I will toss out my .02$ here as well.
Please stop with the chase scenes.
We played Midnight mauler and it was just painful, not in a "It was hard" kind of way. more of a "Please lord can it be over" it felt like playing shoots and ladders, but somehow less fun.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Of the scenarios mentioned, I've only played Gods Market Gamble. I really liked it overall.
On the other hand, I TPK'd my family when I ran it, and was met with complaints of how overpowered the end fight was.
I also have to second some of the issues with chases. I think the biggest issues with them are these:
• Impossible Challenges: If one option is a trained-only skill and the other has an astronomical DC, it could become literally impossible for anyone to succeed. That's bad.
• Resetting Challenges: The chase rules are built around each obstacle needing to be completed once per PC. When you get an obstacle like a locked gate, and the first person is forced to pop the lock, go through, and then close and lock the gate behind them, the suspension of disbelief is shattered.
If writers would be careful to avoid those two pitfalls, I think things would go smoothly enough that the remaining complaints would feel less significant (though that's just my hunch).
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I have run GMG (twice) and Temple.
I enjoyed both of these scenarios a great deal and so did my tables. The increase in combat difficulty is a welcome relief from combat after combat that the PCs go through like wet tissue paper. I think, however, that some players may need to reset their expectations. Regular PFS players may be used to being able to dominate most combats and may not be as cautious or thoughtful as they ought to be going out in to the wide, dangerous world.
My only problem is balancing time. I tend to get caught up in the RP and time can fly, not leaving sufficient opportunity to run a longer combat - this happened to me in Temple and the encounter with the BBEG got shortchanged because of time constraints.
I really enjoy the chase scenes, but I think that they are a challenge for PFS because there is not enough clarity for GMs on how to run these successfully. I suspect that the "run as written" directive, which I wholeheartedly support, leaves some GMs feeling frustrated when the PCs push the limits of the chase as written and they aren't sure what room they have to respond.
The locked gate is a good example. Let me state for the record that I really liked this chase and I think it flowed at my table. All of these are questions that came up for my groups though:
*If one PC opens it, does it swing shut and re-lock as soon as they go through? (strains veracity but this is how I ruled both times I ran it)
*Normally Disable Device is trained only - is it allowable to suspend that for a chase obstacle so that 90% of the party isn't staring at a locked gate with nothing to do?
*Can another PC spend their actions to hold it open for the others?
*If a PC has stone shape can they make a door for themselves in the stone wall next to the gate and walk through, effectively allowing everyone behind to move through the obstacle with no check?
I think that a definitive answer to the following question might help alleviate some frustration: The chase rules state that if a PC attempts two checks in a round, and fails both, they are mired on that challenge for the following round (I apologize for not having exact text to quote, but I am at work). Once they lose an entire turn to being mired, do they auto-move on to the next challenge or reset on the same challenge to face the same two obstacles, possibly forever if it requires skills they don't have? If so, clerics should just sit down at the beginning of the chase and wait to hear how it turns out for the other guys.
Overall - Please continue the RP, the unusual skill challenges and mixing it up with some more brutal encounters. I don't have a high kill ratio as a GM, but I firmly believe that adventuring *should* be dangerous, otherwise, everyone would do it.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Kristie brings up a good point about a lack of clarity regarding what a PFS GM can do when PCs try things other than just rolling the checks they're told.
Personally, I have my own opinions on how "Reward Creative Solutions" applies to some of her examples (in short: flying or re-shaping the world works just fine), but it's a little different when the standard, non-creative solution (i.e., unlocking the gate like you're told to do) seems to conflict with the chase rules.
The PC does something unexpected? Great. That's a creative solution. Reward it.
The PC does exactly what the chase tells them to, and it breaks the chase rules? That's just silly. What are we supposed to do?
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Unfortunately I have not played those particular scenarios yet because I'm planning on playing them at Gencon. However, Throaty Mermaid is our favorite scenario so far, and several others have roleplaying elements that GMs can either expand upon or ignore (Sewer Dragons is a good example of this).
I do think some of the combats are getting too difficult, and the difficulty is heavily influenced by the GM. The same combat can be super easy or a TPK with different GMs.
My players also love roleplaying heavy scenarios and the combat heavy scenarios have been their least favorite. In general, Season 3 scenarios are a much higher quality than previous seasons. Great job.
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How do you feel we've done in recent scenarios—namely ** spoiler omitted **—at balancing combat with roleplaying? Are the combats too hard (a conscious choice as a result of having fewer of them)? Are the more free-form roleplay encounters engaging? How can we improve upon this going forward, or would you rather see us return to a more hack-and-slash style with a bit more consistency in terms of difficulty and formula?
I think that you are doing great. I much prefer the fewer more interesting (and difficult) combats mixed with the open roleplaying encounters. I cringe every time I set up a speedbump encounter where it literally takes longer to draw the map than it does to complete the fight. My players would much prefer spending that time roleplaying.
There is still space for hack and slash scenarios and heavy RP scenarios. Part of the fun is not knowing what to expect when Drenge wakes you up in the middle of the night.
On the subject of chase scenes -
I really like chase scenes, but the enjoyment of these depends entirely on the skill and creativity of your GM. When I played God's Market, we were taking a mostly mechanical approach playing it like a badly written board game. The GM actually put the page on the table to put our miniatures on.
I read through the titles of the different boxes and quickly saw the intended geography in my mind. I pointed this out and our group of players had a few fun moments out of it, even if the mechanics we were presented with were pretty banal. When I run chase scenes I try to give my players the sense that they are running through the world and not just moving pawns on a monopoly board.
My suggestion is for you to include a couple short sentences of flavor text for each square in the chase. It would eat into the word count of the scenario, but give the GM a little to work with if they are running it cold or just not very creative. I think that you should make it explicit that the Reward Creative Play rule applies to chases.
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I've run GMG and
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Of the scenarios mentioned, I've only played Gods Market Gamble. I really liked it overall.
On the other hand, I TPK'd my family when I ran it, and was met with complaints of how overpowered the end fight was.
I also have to second some of the issues with chases. I think the biggest issues with them are these:
• Impossible Challenges: If one option is a trained-only skill and the other has an astronomical DC, it could become literally impossible for anyone to succeed. That's bad.
• Resetting Challenges: The chase rules are built around each obstacle needing to be completed once per PC. When you get an obstacle like a locked gate, and the first person is forced to pop the lock, go through, and then close and lock the gate behind them, the suspension of disbelief is shattered.If writers would be careful to avoid those two pitfalls, I think things would go smoothly enough that the remaining complaints would feel less significant (though that's just my hunch).
I've played both of these modules and the Chase mechanics really fell apart for us. I play a hexcrafter so I can fly pretty much whenever I choose and all of these challenges are automatically defeated by a flying character but the rules don't have any way of handling this.
Other then that GMG was really entertaining in the mix of RP, investigation and interesting combats. I personally really enjoyed the excitement of a truly dangerous BBEG.
As for the original question I've read through Red Harvest and find it... less then desirable to run and looks to be really difficult to run. I've held off on offering it to my group until I feel more confident in handling something that wide open.
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Ran through Temple EE:
Most of the RPing we did was with each other over the interesting situation we were in, not with the NPCs. I wouldn't say it was inherently an RP module, as doing your 4 tasks requires only a little RP and uncovers the mystery fairly fast. It's just a matter of collecting evidence, but we landed a very high Diplomacy early (w/aid another) and fought the finale first (but after a few heresy points). It was a tough battle, but only due to Mass Inflict hitting more than 3 of us and high damage rolls. (We had 6 people and no area healing.) Even without area heals we could have healed close to the damage he should have been doing because he was driven high up the wall because of an Enlarged Dwarf. So he could only hit a few of us with Channel. I wouldn't call it tough for our very martial party, though several of us respected how advanced the setup was. I could easily see a party dying due to ineffectiveness, especially 1st levels with few resources or caster dependent parties, but not so much due to enemy threat.
The crypt was pitiful, but we were a party of 5-2nd levels and a 1st (w/ iron bolts, so quite a useful 1st) so no juju crits or whatever goodies a higher level leader would have had.
Would have liked to see 3 Skeleton Warriors in there.
Mind you, I enjoyed the module, but it didn't match what you targeted.
Final Scores for all three:
Temple EE (lower tier)
Heavy RPing?: No, average. Creepy setting gives bonus points.
Tough battles: Not at lower tier, but finale very dependent on party build. And the higher tier's gaining a rep for toughness.
Red H (higher tier)
Heavy RPing?: If desired. Sadly, minimal RPing can make module (as plotted) work better so minus a few points there, minus a few more for much awkwardness with very Good PCs, and minus again for undeveloped alternate plot lines for PCs, several of which are natural choices besides siding with two forces.
Tough battles?: As module plots it, yes. Well done, good villain builds. As party will likely execute them, no. Too much prep time to go in nova. Too little space for enemies to thrive if attacked inside.
GM Gamble (lower tier)
Heavy RPing?: Standard for investigation scenario. Solid, but with nothing remarkable.
Tough battles?: Yes, several good battles which influence plot a lot. (YAY!) One awkward, tough finale.
Extra: Good chase scene, except most people hate GM Guide chase scenes. (Thankfully optional.)
Dramatic fire scene might be too tough for 1st levels.
WINNER!
Hope that helps, Mark
JMK
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I played God Market's Gamble
The chase scene could be a huge problem. If you chose wrong and tried only to move 1 square you could end up needing to roll a 18+ to get out of the first square.
I meta-gamed it with my character - tried 2 squares in the hope to make the second and miss the first by less than 5.
But we had one player who still was in the very first square haven't managed to move out a single time due to high roles needed when the whole chase had ended.
He wasn't trying to move 2 'to make it easier' and making it and maybe she was making the wrong choice.
Just re-reading it. I think the GM allowed us to chose 1 from the first and 1 from the second.
Still the problem stands. With Acrobatics 2 you have a 15% chance. Taking amour penalty into account this isn't too low. There is no helping, no climbing, no alternative.
So take Acrobatics skill 2:
So do the math - .085^10 = 19.7% chance you are still in the same square in round 10 (15% chance to succeed - = 85% chance to fail - rtaised to the power of 10 to tell you if you are still in the same sqaure 10 rounds later or 1 out of a group of 5 is likely still at the start 10 rounds later)
You should have something in here like an automatic success after 2 fails or it just is frustrating for a player who seems completely lost out.
I'm just calculating the chances - Valeros - Pregen 1 - needs an average of 22 !! rounds (using his skills, best choice and stats) to reach the roof top.
I will try to do the stats for the other pre-gens. Kyra could be worse.
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How do you feel we've done in recent scenarios—namely ** spoiler omitted **—at balancing combat with roleplaying? Are the combats too hard (a conscious choice as a result of having fewer of them)? Are the more free-form roleplay encounters engaging? How can we improve upon this going forward, or would you rather see us return to a more hack-and-slash style with a bit more consistency in terms of difficulty and formula?
Temple of EE: Roleplaying has a lot of potential, depending on the GM/Patry mix. I ran it somewhat like a Hare Krishna temple rather than strait 'Tien' and the players seemed to respond, without direct references. It was the funnest I had as GM.
Having Knowledge:Religion and Knowledge:Planes really helps and I think lowering the DC's by 5 helps PCs get the important plot points out, particularly at tier 1-2.
The last fight is problematic depending on player and GM mix:
If the fight had not been called for time, I think the result would have been a tpk.
I've GM'd it with a group that responded by getting bulls strengthened/alchemist infushioned up to 24 str throwing the gnome caviler at the BBEG with his now good aligned lance. I am also a GM who allowed and smile at such tactics. Even then, at various points 5 of 6 PC's were down with a lot of healing going on. It was a hard fight.
I think players and GM's that aren't used to coming up with or rewarding creative solutions are more likely to be frustrated/annoyed. Since this factor varies greatly (and I hope criticism is not implied to anyone) some more thought should be put into table variation.
God Market's Gamble: Seriously, the best module I've played and I'm looking forward to GMing it. I think the combo of investigations/RP/skills/fights makes it fun and interesting. It, I think, was a little more balanced then Temple of EE.
As for the chase and chase scenes in general, I've played it and Midnight Mauler. In Midnight Mauler, I used a potion of flight and avoided most of the skill roles. As a result, I faced the BBEG for four rounds alone. In the chase scene in Godsmarket. We had people who couldn't keep up using spells and bows instead. But still, in both cases there was a lot of GM adjudicating. That again leads to a less standardized experince. That need not be a bad thing.
Still, I hope that doesn't discourage you from including chases and other experiments in the future. Truthfully, they are what I look forward to when I game. Please do more of this, in spite of it creating a less 'uniform' experince. At the same time, keep the differences between the most conservative and most permissive GMs in mind.
Please, less hack and slash, more of this.
Thankyou for opening up this discussion.
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I've run Gods Market and Temple, and played Gods Market. From a GMing perspective, I had a lot of fun roleplaying all the NPCs, and both times my players really enjoyed themselves.
Gods Market Gamble has made it into my top 5 PFS mods, joining scenarios like Mists of Mwangi.
In both mods, the last fight is a brutal beast, but my players managed to come through them bloodied but victorious - and with a real sense of accomplishment. In both final fights, I had all remaining characters on single digit hp and at least 2 party members on the floor, but through a combination of good rolls and well-timed healing, no deaths.
As for Red Harvest...well, I've read it, but not played it. And to be frank - I hate it. I enjoy knowing homages to other works, but this feels way too blatant. And, worst of all,
The whole thing just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I've also had reports from a couple of friends of mine who played it at a con that I didn't attend, and their impressions were overwhelmingly negative.
Uh, now I feel bad - this post started off so upbeat! I just want to reiterate how much I really have enjoyed Temple and God's Market - I liked running God's Market so much that I specifically asked that it be one of the mods I'm running at PaizoCon UK in a few weeks, a request Dave H has generously granted - and I think that the experiment has really been a success with those.
As to why from my point of view Red Harvest has seemed less successful, I think it's a combination of a few things:
1) Too much a rip-off of the source material, going beyond the usual homage boundaries.
2) Feels too 'small' for a 7-11 adventure - at this level, I want world-shattering (or at least country or Pathfinder Society -shattering) events, a real feeling of 'Are YOU a bad enough dude to rescue the Decemvirate?' and so on. Going on a fetch quest to get a macguffin from a tribe of snake-people seems a little...petty. (I had a similar complaint with The Kortos Envoy, earlier in the year.)
3) The spoiler I mentioned earlier.
Oh! And one last thing about Gods Market. I really, really love how very sensible the bad guy is. They behave logically and intelligently throughout, and their only mistake is underestimating the Pathfinder Society's guile and resources. And that's a perfectly reasonable mistake to make! In a lot of mods, there's something the BBEG does or doesn't do that gets a bit...handy-wavey. But in this one, you can follow their thought process all the way through, and it rings true at every step. I have a special place in my heart for logically consistent bad guys, and it makes running them a real treat.
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Rialla Barleyhusk is one of my favorite NPCs to play! I really love God's Market. It's my favorite scenario to date. I even like the chase scene, which was a gripe for me with Midnight Mauler as a player.
The BBEG in this scenario is awesome to play at the end, I think. I have a lot of fun with this scenario. And it's certainly difficult but also fun.
I played Red Harvest at a convention and was less enthused by this one. I have not read it, so I cannot really speak from a GM perspective, and my dislike could have had to do with factors other than the scenario itself.
I would also add Haunting of Hinojai to the list of innovative scenarios from this season. That's also a favorite!
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Director of Brand Strategy
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Also, I think the Midnight Mauler precedent mentioned is that the killer is gay. While this is true, it's not a precedent, as we've had gay and lesbian NPCs in the setting and in adventures as far back as Pathfinder AP #1. Some of them are good guys who help PCs, some are just neutral folks who live there and are gay, and some are evil people who do bad things. While in this case, the Mauler was both gay and a killer, we've included a number of queer folk in many places who aren't evil.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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** spoiler omitted **
Whether we're talking religion, sex, race, or anything else, it's not stereotyping when the proportions are the same in the pool of villains as they are in the general populace. Let's be careful that we don't (even accidentally) imagine non-existent offenses, alright?
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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** spoiler omitted **** spoiler omitted **
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I also think, that if people want the perceived "negative" stigma that certain predilections have to be removed, then we have to allow for those personality types to be portrayed in every possible role.
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Funnily enough, played MM with a pair of players whose PCs were gay lovers. They were most enthused to rescue the fellow, likening their own love to the others' love. Made for good RPing and more investment in the investigation.
The GMG atheist theme is modest at best, and in our game a point was made that the city guard is made of atheists too, so it balances. (But I'd think the guard would want Clerics for healing, and wonderful spells like Locate Object and Locate Person.)
And of course the BBEG plays it sensible, she's an atheist. :)
Also, it's hard to think of Golarion atheists (Yes, there's evidence, but I won't worship them) in terms of real atheists (There is no evidence, so I won't worship them.)
/derail=atheism with evidence?
What I don't get is atheism existing in a world with displays of divine energy. Since atheism is generally a disbelief in god(s), and gods are very evident, what does it mean?
Is it more anti-theist? Undecided? Unconcerned?
/derail
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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/derail=atheism with evidence?
What I don't get is atheism existing in a world with displays of divine energy. Since atheism is generally a disbelief in god(s), and gods are very evident, what does it mean?
Is it more anti-theist? Undecided? Unconcerned?
/derail
I believe in Bobs. I can see Bobs, one or more Bobs comes on this exact forum and posts.
While Bob is powerful and exerts influence over many other Paizo posters, I do not believe Bob is divine.
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I think the Barbarian above does believe in gods, his ancestors as divine beings, with the others being false gods (or others' gods/ancestors/sources, not his).
Razmir: Good example, as are other powerful spellcasters. But then it comes to a definition of divinity. When does one transcend? Immortality's somewhat common.
If a creature can grant his followers magic, I'd say he/she/it's divine.
Of course, then there's whether that being is worthy of praise.
Do Golarion atheists simply lack piety?
I think the word doesn't translate well into fantasy, and perhaps we can coin a phrase that captures the 'fantasy-atheist' meme.
"Apious" or "Antitheist" seem to capture the spirit more.
Somebody who believes all the gods are fake (i.e. Razmir) would, if rational, still reason out a source of healing/magic/etc., perhaps a 'true source' or 'unrevealed greater god'.
Hmm...or maybe they believe anybody can ascend with practice & will.
Or that all gods are selfishly seeking worship?
Hmmm...
Oh, and Dennis, Bob J. is a god (look at all those stars he's created). :) (And I see you're well on the path yourself.)
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Speaking of ascension, and proving godhood.
What does it say of the Test of the Starstone that someone so drunk that he can't even remember what he did the next day was able to pass the test?
So, a false deity, and someone who can't really be absolutely sure he really is a deity, so far, and off the top of my head...
Add that up, and it throws definite doubt on the rest of the so-called (or is that self-proclaimed?) deities.
Oh, and add in the whole thing with Aroden, deities dying is not very divine, IMO.
Yes, most of my PCs follow a deity, one is even a worshiper (sp?) of Cayden Cailean, but I think I have at least one non-divine-classed PC defined as an atheist...