Looking for help with my summoner / eidolon, Going for mounted combat


Advice


Hey folks, Im starting a pathfinder game, well started last night and I am going for the mounted combat route. I want my edilon to have fly. I am currently using a longspear because I can't use a lance yet as a halfling with the outrider trait. I was hoping somone could help with lvl 1 information such as Feats. Spells and edilon deatails. Thanks folks!


First of all it's *Eidolon*.

Second I could help because I just made a level 1 summoner. Do you know you can't get fly until level 5 though? Halflings would be considered small and all eidolons start out medium so you're good with the mount(my problem is that I'm a human and I have to make it large before I can mount him). When you say feats do you mean for the summoner because if you did here are the two best(of course since of the halfling thing you can only take one):

Extra Evolution-It does exactly what it's called you get to add an extra one point to you're evolution pool. If you take it at level one you can also take it at level five and every five levels after. So at level one you will have four points instead of three.(I suggest taking this one first because then you can also take it at level five plus it will give you an extra one point evolution to start off with).

Resilient Eidolon-If you are knocked unconscious, fall asleep, or are killed, your eidolon remains for a number of rounds equal to your summoner level before it is banished. If you are brought back to consciousness before this duration expires, your eidolon is not banished. If you stay like that then it will be banished normally.

Well good luck.
-Dunali(My old character)/Amber(My new summoner)


Well if you're going mounted you will likely want your Eidolon to be Quadraped or Serpentine so you can give it the Mount evolution (if you don't have this you take a -5).

For your own character you'll want Mounted Combat. If you can gain access to lance proficiency grab Ride-By-Attack, and Spirited Charge.


I need deatailed help laying out everything. it sucks


Well I have a longspear right now until i get my next feat opening up or what not. Is that good enough until I get the lance?


Sadly if you want to go the Lance+Spirited Charge route, it will either consume all your feats until level 9... Or you'll need to change race to Human/Half-Elf.

Halflings can make fine mounted combat units... Just not without Martial Weapon Proficiency.

You should also try to learn how to build the character yourself; you need to know how to play your character at the table and the best way to do that is to build it yourself. Summoner is a tough class for beginners and I would recommend going Cavalier instead if you just wanted to be mounted.


I'm actually toying around with the same idea as well, so might I make a suggestion? Be a Gnome. I say this for one big reason: the racial archetype Master Tinker (APG) allows you to be automatically proficient with all weapons you personally craft. And, so long as you have a semi-decent intelligence, you can throw your +2 racial bonus into Craft (Weapon), get your class skill bonus, and be popping out weapons in no time. This includes the lance. And the great thing is you only have to give away your very circumstantial dodge and attack bonuses (Defensive Training and Hatred). Just take enough ranks in Craft to get a flat +10 so you can 'take ten' when crafting masterwork components later on.

Now keep in mind that this won't give you the feat Martial Weapon Prof (Lance), so you can't take Weapon Focus (Lance). But at least you don't take the -4 to attacks when wielding it. Also, since you are still small, you can still ride your eidolon from first level on.

Hope that helps a little bit!


yes but i also if gnome or human/half elf loose my outrider which gives me +2 ride/handle animal checks


You won't need the Handle Animal check (unless you are training or using animals, which an eidolon is not). And a +2 to Ride isn't as necessary as you think. Look over the Ride checks to consider what you will be doing. Considering you can communicate with your eidolon telepathically, you can just tell it where to go/what to do. And, so long as you have at least 1 rank in Ride, you get your class bonus. Assuming you have any Dex at all, this will allow easy passing of most Ride checks.

Dark Archive

Additionally, its much easier to shore up ride/handle animal via skill focus or some Trait or another, than it is to shore up missing weapon proficiencies.


Hmm.... that really helps explain it. Ugh I wish there was a way to talk in real time about this thing.


Feel free to take your time and ask as many questions as you need. There is a good chance someone can get back to you in a timely manner.


Anyone got skype or yahoo messenger or something that we can chat on there and iron stuff out?

Dark Archive

Honestly, you're not likely to get someone random on yahoo or msn or something.

My advice, believe it or not, if you want near-realtime responses to RPG questions, would be 4chan.org/tg/. They're pretty civil so long as you're on the /tg/ board, and you can generally get some decent advice there too.

Downside, the site is generally pretty dead from 2am-noon. I wish you luck.

P.S. - Can't your GM help you out?


hes "busy" consistantly. only really has time as he said for things on game night and then he just started his campaign while i was still making my sheet when day 1 was supposed to be all about making characters


I'd suggest you lay out the character from the ground up show us everything you have then you'll likely find several people who will offer scary alternatives :D


Ok ill do that now


OK here goes. As of right now

Halfling Summoner stats

Summoner:

Str:14 (-2 for halfling) = 12
Dex:17
Con:17
INT:15
WIS:11
Cha:17

Get 4 level 0 spells and 2 level 1 spells at Character level 1

Class Skills are Craft (undecided), fly,handle animal, Knowledge(All), Linquistics, Profession (Undecided), Ride, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device.

1 Rank in Knowledge Arcana,Knowledge Planes, Spellcraft and UMD

FEAT: Expanded Arcana(1 extra spell of max cast ability level or below)

EDIOLON (borrowed from a build for mounted edilon)

Lvl 1
Form:Quadruped
AC:14 (10base, +2NA, +2Dex)
Initiative:+2
Speed:40

EDIOLON ABILITY SCORES
STR:14
DEX:14
CON:13
INT:7
WIS:10
CHA:11

SKILLS:Acrobatics+6, Fly+6, Stealth+6, Perception+4
Feats:Power Attack(1st)
Evolutions (base):Bite,Limbs(legs)2
Evolutions (Extra):Mount(1) Fly(2)
Attack Routine:Bite+3

OK So im debating on either Human or Half Elf. for the MWP Lance and Mounted combat along with my enlarge person.


Oh items are:

sm Longspear
sm dagger
sm backpack
waterskin
sm bedroll
flint&steel
ink
inkpen
parchment x4 (in scroll case)
belt pouch
silk rope 50ft
winter blanket


After the discussion so far leaning towards half elf and human but thinking mostly human due to extra feat would make me allowed to use Lance and mounted combat, I could forgo expanded arcana for a little

Dark Archive

Hmm. For items:

You'll want Pitons, a Hammer, a Grappling Hook, a 10 foot pole (a quarterstaff if you can't afford the 10-foot pole), and a light source (everburning torch? you can't go wrong with a dull gray ioun stone with continual flame cast on it (torch that doesn't take up your hands) an everburning torch made as a bullseye lantern is good too. Bullseye lantern, takes no fuel. Think of creative ways to use these things. Pitons are great for making sure a door stays shut. Or for climbing. quarterstaff is for checking for traps, or if you ever need a bludgeoning weapon.
Plus your saddle and gear for the eidolon.

One thing you could do, which is likely your best bet if you want to stay as a little dude (btw, Gnomes are awesome, and give you more combatty stat boosts - +2 Con instead of +2 Dex)

The alternatives are Halfelf, Halforc, and Human, which are more customizeable, and do more damage with melee weapons. For them you'll need a large eidolon before you can use it as a mount; and before that it's just a combat pet.

You could burn a feat for the spear proficiency, but it might be more worthwhile to dip a level in fighter at level 2 instead. You get all martial weapons, all armor, tower shields, a boost to your BAB, a bonus feat, en extra d10hd, some extra class skills, and 2+int more skill points. It gets you pretty well set up for your combat, but you will be one level behind in your casting and eidolon progressions. I dont think I'd do it more than once, but a one level dip as a caster usually isn't a terrible idea, especially if the game doesn't go up past like 8-12.

It depends on how martial a character you want your summoner to be.

I've never made a mounted summoner before, when I wanted a combat summoner I made a synthesist, and the strength bonuses and weapon proficiencies and other options made up for the summoner's middle BAB and crappy armor. Eventually "I summon my eidolon" became "I cast fighter". By level 16, "Fighter" gave me all the iconic abilities of the D&D 3.5 ogre mage, including making me large, and so I went with the look, and looked like an ogre mage too.

I think with this build you'll have a hard time keeping up with AC, and your attack bonus isn't great to be a frontliner, and your hp will be a little low. If you want to boost your AC, look into Piecemeal armor, I've heard there are ways you can design armor that still counts as light, that is better than the armor in the book. If you dip fighter and you dont see yourself casting spells much and plan to focus on the eidolon, you could wear heavy armor.

You'll want things that boost your AC, Attack Bonus, Damage, and hp.

*If your goal is to be mounted and run around casting spells at people all day, I've grossly misunderstood what you wanted, and much of this will not be good advice for such a build.


I think Darkholme has made some very good suggestions.

Gnomes also have an alternate racial trait that makes them proficient with anything they specifically crafted. This could be useful if you don't want to do any dipping. Half elves also have an alternate racial trait that makes them proficient with a single weapon type.

If you aren't opposed to dipping a level into fighter, the dragoon archetype would be awesome with your build because you will get two mounted feats for the level of fighter as well as martial weapon proficiencies.

One more thing to consider about going with a medium sized race is your mount must be larger to carry you. You have to burn 4 evolution points on this in order to be viable at all. If you stay with the small character, then, you have 4 more points to play with in your eidolon build. Also with a medium character, your mount may not be able to follow you into small corridors. You would need to keep a reduce person wand or learn the spell if you want to keep your eidolon out all the time.

Some things to consider is whether your eidolon will be doing attacks of its own. It may be a good idea to get the pounce and energy attack evolutions as you will likely be charging a lot and energy attacks apply to all the eidolon's physical attacks.


Put it this way by level 10 I wanted my Ediolons extras to be (bite,claw,energy attack,large,mount,flight,pounce,tail,tailslap) This would be on a quadraped and im going to go human.

Lvl 1 I would get Human MWP (Lance) Mounted combat. Use enlarge person on the ediolon to ride it.

Level 5 Ride by attack and lvl 10 Spirited charge.

Im basically going to be the run in attack get out kind of attacker. Dragoon does seem viable but from what ive read most is not to multi class summoner. Life link allows me to cast enlarge on the ediolon as if cast upon me therefor allowing me to use it on him. From what I understood.


Make my Strength score higher than most Summoners and take Martial Weapon Proficiency (Lance) for x2 damage on a charge. Then combine a pouncing charge from my Eidolon and a lance hit from me ought to be pretty sweet from what i understand of things.


I wrote a post on the topic a little while back

I'm really not a big fan of the mounted combat chain. It requires too many feats that are too situational and not that much fun. I do enjoy having the lance and there are a number of ways to get it. One thing to keep in mind with the lance charge is that your Eidolon will only get as many attacks as it has reach attacks on the charge. This makes pounce pretty useless at low levels.


Where did you get those crazy stats from? Rolling??

Dont burn a feat on MWP - you can use heirloom weapon (trait) to become proficient instead. Just write it into your backstory as handed down through family or your order.

If you go human, that will allow you to get Mounted Combat + Ride by attack at low levels. Grab a horse for the first little while, maybe. Then at 3 take spirited charge and you're all set on your feats.

Don't waste points on charisma as a melee summoner, 14 should be as high as you need it to be until level 14. You won't be casting any offensive spells.


yeah I rolled em oddly enough lol 17,17,15,12,15,11 lol my group and the dm were shocked. came after a roll whhere nothing was above 7 lol


might have been it was 14 rather than 12 the 12 was from the -2 str from halfling because the cha was 19 not 17


1 person marked this as a favorite.
dunebugg wrote:


Dont burn a feat on MWP - you can use heirloom weapon (trait) to become proficient instead. Just write it into your backstory as handed down through family or your order.

I agree about not burning a feat to do this, but that trait only works with that specific weapon. If you lose that weapon you are screwed.

The eidolon should be able to make all attacks on a pounce because being large size increases your reach for all attacks to 10 ft which is the same as your lance.


Sweet! now to actually build and stat it


Totally can't decide on race. Human makes it hard becuase has to be large which I dont get until lvl 10 and thats ages away. Enlarge person only lasts 1min/level which is atrocious


You could multi-class Paladin (for 1-3 levels, lovely saves), dip into Dragoon... I personally like Unbreakable (no going unconscious, just dying).

You get lance, Dragoon gives you Mounted Combat and Skill Focus (Ride)?

L1 - Summoner w/Spell Focus (Conjuration) small eidolon for scouting
L2 - Dragoon w/Mounted Combat & Skill Focus (Ride), get a Warpony
L3 - Summoner w/Augmented Summoning, Mount evolution for eidolon

That seems to be the fastest way to get the flavor, and stay small Halfling/Gnome... or else you have to spend 4 EPs on Large. I always try to go human, but it's not really working until 9th or 10th level is I dip into another class.

Another thing to consider, a Glove of Storing (lance) and Rod of Lordly Might (higher levels).

At this point, you're not a caster really... you're melee.

Dark Archive

You could do as Hassan Ahmed suggested, or you could do like I mentioned, and go fighter (choose an archetype if you'd like, but not really necessary for a 1-level dip). No Superfluous warpony, either.

I'd look into which build gives you the better stuff (Fighter will give you the bonus feat, paladin may give something slightly better, but then you need to play him paladin-like).

I'd probably go halfling/gnome, unless you can put off riding your eidolon until level 10, and until then get a regular horse and use the eidolon as a combat pet.


The easiest way to get what you want at level 1 would be drop the expanded arcana feat and take mwp lance at level 1 (i'd also swap the strength and con personally so at level 1 you are +5 to hit with the lance while charging doing 2d6+4 damage.)

For the Eidolon flight has a level limit of 5th if i recall correctly so i'd go with mount (1), reach (bite 1) and improved natural armour (1). Giving it an AC of 16 and the ability to attack anything you can with your lance.


hmm... What race are you suggesting Bertious.


the making the edilon large is a pain in the ass. But...The human bonus feat and stuff like that is nice.So its a toss up. I really want the mounted edilon with a lance route. Just having trouble determining best way to go about it at level 1. Im just having more and more trouble. Anyone got a way to talk verbally about these things. I can't figure this out for some ungodly reason. I am thinking 2nd pathfiner game as a summoner = bad idea. I really want to play this but i just get more confused and confused. I do know that I would rather not multiclass more than one time IF I HAVE to. The more I talk about options the more I have trouble deciding. lol

Dark Archive

I disagree with MWP Lance. He'd be losing a feat for a single weapon, instead of gaining a feat, ALL the martial weapons, ALL the armor, some hp etc, and losing one level of casting. Dipping a martial class is almost always a better idea than taking a martial weapon feat.

I'm only suggesting multiclassing one level of fighter. Then put everything else into summoner.

Stick with your halfling or gnome.


Your right tho Darkholme. I wasnt planning on going with Twin Edilon soo....Dipping a level and getting all that stuff would be good. Now Summoners only wear light right? Otherwise they have spell fail?

Dark Archive

Spellcasters are always more complicated than melee characters. Additionally, you're trying to bend a class over and make it do something kindof unusual. You're basically saying: "I want to make a wizard and be good at mounted melee combat". It's not impossible, necessarily, but it's not the default assumption, and takes some effort to make it work.

If you're open to other (simpler) suggestions, I dont think your mounted summoner build is a particularly easy one to do well, especially since you want to focus on melee combat instead of magic.

A Cavalier or a Fighter with an Archetype for mounted combat would be an easier thing to make if you want a mount and want to be good at combat.

A Synthesist Summoner is alot of fun if you want to make a melee summoner. You get to make yourself into custom monsters; and can give yourself weapon proficiencies when you transform. You wouldn't have a mount though. At higher levels you can pay some gold to change your form whenever you want. Today you turn into a dragon thing, tomorrow you turn into an /Iron Golem/, the next day, Ogre-Mage, and the day after that, you can fly at like 400MPH or something ridiculous as your "walk speed".

Or you can make a small druid and ride a wolf around, but then you're less melee focused until you get to Wild-Shape and you can turn into a bear.


@_@ ughh lol. I like the idea of customizing my ediolon but it is true. Also I wanted to be able to fly on my mount. hmm... I dunno what to do. If Im summoner I want to do mounted combat. Our group doesnt have a fighter or defender style character my summoner is actually the closest. Perhaps I should just change that. I dunno...Kinda feeling overwhelmed.

Dark Archive

Oh. Jeez.

Your build would make a terrible primary fighter. I kindof assumed backup fighter for some extra damage. But its certainly not a simple build for your first pathfinder character.

If you want the customizeable eidolon, I would go stock summoner, and use your summons and eidolon to serve as a frontliner while you stay back, make a master summoner and use lots of summon spells, or make the synthesist, and YOU can be the frontline fighter so long as you have enough hitpoints. Of those, the simple one is the synthesist.

If you just want simple, go fighter or cavalier. Fighter is the simplest, and a human fighter with a greatsword, step up, and power attack is alot of fun. For flight, wait until you can get a magic item. If the GM will let you, build intelligent magic armor that flies, once you can afford it. Its not a mount, but you'll fly around like Iron man with a greatsword. That build is alot of fun, and so is the Synthesist.

The synthesist is probably the easiest way for you to be the tank and be able to fly. But you wont have a mount, you'll just be badass.

Dark Archive

My suggestion for a simpler summoner tank is Synthesist.

If you want to go Synthesist, it's listed here. Here's the summoner. Here's the Eidolon Build rules.

You can make a pretty awesome Tank that way.

If you want to go straight summoner, I'd suggest not building him like you expect him to be a cavalier, and keep him out of combat, and let the eidolon and your summons handle that.


What part of the character are you most tied to? From the discussion so far, it sounds like you want a mount, and you eventually want it to fly. I suggest Druid for this purpose. You get an animal companion (like an eidolon, but more standardized, and less magical). This is likely going to be more consistently better for you, and less of a headache to manage. You would switch your casting stat to Wisdom rather than Charisma, which improves your will saves and important skills, and it synergizes well with gnomes. You wouldn't be using a lance, but the spear can be very good too. If you save up your money, you can get your companion horseshoes of flight or any other number of magic items.

If you really want to keep the summoner, refer back to the KISS principle
1) Gnomes/Halflings allow you to ride immediately.
2)You can use traits to become lance "proficient" (heirloom weapon, or tinkerer racial characteristic)
3)If you want to be in mounted combat, I suggest the mounted combat feat.

Hope that helps.

Dark Archive

I just sat down and talked to him.

He's realized he doesn't really want to play a summoner. He wanted the cool mount, but wanted a melee focus.

After chatting with him I pointed him in the direction of the Houndmaster Cavalier and the Roughrider Fighter in case the GM won't allow it, and suggested if he go roughrider he use Leadership to acquire the cool mount.

He basically was expecting a cavalier/summoner mashup. When I started explaining via videogame references and said the stock summoner plays a fair bit like a WoW warlock (stay back and do buffs/debuffs while your pet fights for you) he got it (and said Eww, lol).

He has a better idea of the timeline of a campaign now too. He didnt get that if he's starting at level 1, and the GM is running a published AP and giving Exp by the book, it'll be months before he hits his level 10 build he was thinking of; and he was not looking forward to the leveling up on the way there.

He's supposed to be coming back here tomorrow some time after he gets word back from the GM; and then we can maybe help him hammer out something that plays more like the box he was trying to fit the summoner into.


Heres the rundown folks,

DM:Sorry, Raven, let's keep to things out of the books.

DM:Raven, we have a cleric, an arcane caster, and multi-class rogue/fighter-type. I recommend something simple for you, would you be interested in fighter or ranger or the like? Party could use one.

Then a group member said:For the record, I'm sticking with the Urban Ranger. I'll be using medium armor and shield (planning to go with melee & shield mastery). I'll be a defensive type of fighter who will attempt to hold the line so the rest of the patry can strike from a distance. Outside of combat I'll be able to do disable device, heal, and other skills. An aggressive, offensive warrior-type or the rogue that likes to flank would complement me well in combat. Of course, I was up to the challenge of being the only one up front (though, I suspect Arkalon (the cleric) would join me on occasion.

So I need to figure out what best fits that group


Sounds to me like your group could use a gish character. You'll want someone with reasonable martial skill, but a bit more focus on spellcasting than others. Summoner is a fine choice, as are druids and magi. From there, it's a matter of spell selection and combat style.

Scarab Sages

In a low power games and with stats like yours you can pull off a mounted summoner. I did it with a half-Orc battle-axe wielding summoner (eventually multiclassing into two-handed fighter) and 'dragon' eidolon. In a two man party I was the muscle and the other guy was playing an artificer (3rd party class, quite fun). Now my summoner and his pet started off rather pathetic but by the end they were standing toe-to-toe with demons and b**** slapping them back to the abyss. He also became a king of a floating city. Had some good times with that character.

I should mention some 3.5 material was allowed and one awesome scaling homebrew feat were involved.


my DM is extremely By the books. He wouldnt allow houndmaster due to it not being in a printed book. working out a longbow ranger beast master at the moment

Scarab Sages

That's too bad, though for my campaign the party really needed the boost since there was only two of us and the other guy wasn't built for combat. Still remember the first session, my half-Orc arrived at the floating city, helped some of the inhabitants fight off thieves (took one of their heads with a critical which both horrified and impressed the inhabitants) all before really meeting my other party member.

Well I hope you have a suitable epic time with your beast master ranger.


Actually went longbow beast rider cavalier unmounted =) pet will end up being an attack mob and Leadership at lvl 7 for badassery via pet

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Looking for help with my summoner / eidolon, Going for mounted combat All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.