When Has the Flurry of Blows Ruling Changed?


Rules Questions


I know I missed something.

Back in 2009, Jason Bulmahn made this ruling.

"The RAW do allow the grappled to make a full attack action, assuming they can do so with only one hand. Since flurry does not require two hands to perform, a monk could flurry."

Now one of my players is telling me it's been ruled than flurry of blows is officially a two-handed attack. What did I miss?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Flurry has not officially changed at all.


Dungeon Grrrl wrote:
Now one of my players is telling me it's been ruled than flurry of blows is officially a two-handed attack. What did I miss?

You missed an off-hand comment made by Sean K Reynolds on the forums, somewhere. No official errata/clarification/whatever has been issued at this point that I know of, and, in fact, current FAQs seem to contradict the ruling, so presumably they will have to update a number of issues when/if this is made official.

Not surprisingly, this has raised a rather lengthy discussion (here). I think the only thing official about is, so far, is that SKR mentioned that the design team will look into it after GenCon. Or something.

Edit: And while it's true that FoB has not officially changed at this point, I think it's worth noting that supposedly nothing official has to change, since this is how FoB has always worked. Some of us (including the guy who designed some of the monk archetypes) just read it wrong all along.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

As of now, nothing has changed.


It did get changed, it acts like TWF now, cant remember if its on the messageboard or the blog.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
jyster wrote:
It did get changed, it acts like TWF now, cant remember if its on the messageboard or the blog.

No, all suggestions were retracted by developers, and stated they needed time to go over it.

So, as of now, nothing has changed.


jyster wrote:
It did get changed, it acts like TWF now, cant remember if its on the messageboard or the blog.

I think BBTs point is that it hasn't been changed. SKR making a comment on a messageboard does not constitute official errata. So at this point it may be the intention to change it, but it hasn't yet.

And my point is that there may not be anything to change, because SKR's stance seems to be that this is how it has always been supposed to worked and is, in fact, how it is described to work in the book already.

But yeah, SKR mentioned that they need time to discuss this internally. So, hold on to your horses!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Here is Jason Bulmahn's response.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Flurry has not officially changed at all.

LOL

Yes, technically, that is true. It has not *officially* changed. Jason Bulmahn's "clarification" pointed out that everyone else was doing it wrong.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Including those he worked with and wrote archetypes.


Did someone make a meme for Jason's "your doing it wrong" clarification? ;)

If not, they should.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Let's not walk that path.


Slaunyeh wrote:
You missed an off-hand comment made by Sean K Reynolds on the forums, somewhere. No official errata/clarification/whatever has been issued at this point that I know of, and, in fact, current FAQs seem to contradict the ruling, so presumably they will have to update a number of issues when/if this is made official.

Thanks!


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Here is Jason Bulmahn's response.

Also, thanks!

I didnt mean top rabble-rouse. I was just trying to figure out where my player was coming from.

Now I can make a house-rule and move on!


Dungeon Grrrl wrote:
Now I can make a house-rule and move on!

That's the spirit!

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Dungeon Grrrl wrote:

I know I missed something.

Back in 2009, Jason Bulmahn made this ruling.

"The RAW do allow the grappled to make a full attack action, assuming they can do so with only one hand. Since flurry does not require two hands to perform, a monk could flurry."

Now one of my players is telling me it's been ruled than flurry of blows is officially a two-handed attack. What did I miss?

PRD wrote:
A monk's attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet.

"A monk doesn't need both hands to flurry" and "Flurry can't use the same weapon for every attack" are not contradictory.


I just wanted to point out that in Pathfinder, a monk could always flurry with unarmed attacks, even with both hands tied behind his back.

The part of Flurry that is in question is a monks ability to make consecutive attacks with the same manufactured weapon during a flurry.

It was clearly the developers intent to tie flurry of blows mechanics with two weapon fighting mechanics, but the exact details of that have caused issues. I think there will be a new FAQ soon, and I doubt anyones game will really be affected much.


Jiggy wrote:
"A monk doesn't need both hands to flurry" and "Flurry can't use the same weapon for every attack" are not contradictory.

I agree. I just didn't know exactly where the the latter ruling was coming from, so I didn't know how to respond.

As it happens I dislike the latter rule anyway, and will just add a house rule to fix it in my games. But that's because it interferes with lots of existing characters and NPCs in my games, not because it invalidates the grapple ruling.

;D


The full discussion, debate, and arguments are on this 1,000+ post thread: Flurry of Changes to Flurry of Blows. We are still waiting for Jason, SKR, and team to get back on what the final decision is. It changed (well, how most of us have been playing it was changed), then the change got put on hold, and everything is up in the air for PFS play.

MA


In short, play it as you always have until further notice.

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