When you write up adventures (if you homebrew them) do you write in readable fluff for your players? Do you use a lot or use a lot or a little in your sessions?
I'm a wall of text guy and trying to curb that. I know a lot of this is based on your audience but I'm trying to gauge if my players are in the minority when I say that even the 3 sentence fluff intros to a Descent scenario are tough for them to sit through.
I've got a fairly long campaing setting here for a homebrew pbp, if I set it in a setting like FR it's pretty much a few short paragraphs...often rather cliche ones at that...
If it's written out for me I use it as written, adjusting or editing as needed, and am pretty good about being willing to repeat myself as inquiry requires. One of the things you get used to when gaming on Ventrilo or Skype is mikes cutting out at the most inopportune time. I try to keep from rambling on for longer than a minute at most though, and try to speak slowly enough that I don't just overrun the players.
In PbPs I can get very wall-of-texty, but I don't consider that a bad thing in a game where anyone can just go back and reread.
|
I have pages and pages of fluff for myself, but usually a double-spaced three-page guide or so for my players that details major settlements, gods, and notable NPC's. If you're going to homebrew, some fluff is necessary so the players know how to respond in given situations, particularly where it might differentiate from the standard fluff. (e.g. If goblinoids aren't necessarily evil in your homebrew.) On the other hand, they don't need to know the racial and religious demographics of every single city.
So, although I LOVE world-building, I understand that can be dull and overwhelming to other people. So my players get the three page packet and I leave the other 40-pages for myself. My own personal Silmarillion.
Now if my players couldn't handle even three sentences of fluff, I wouldn't even bother with the homebrew. That's when I'd stick to modules. I don't mind explaining things as they come up, but I'd get frustrated if I had to keep interrupting the game to explain to them crucial things that could've been easily and quickly explained in a two minute intro.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I have my own homebrew, I've used it off and on for about 26 years. It has a lot of fluff, more than even long time players have fully encountered. Most of this was for my own amusement and I try not to inflict the tedious parts on players.
This is the downside of home-brews.
My world has gone so far afield of the norms of traditional game worlds that players require certain stuff just to know what's going on. Some players enjoy this type of thing, others don't. I've gotten to the point where the latter type don't bruise my ego while also coming to the realization that some of the weirder stuff just doest fit with some players so I also use worlds like Golarion, Faerun or Greyhawk.
Shared worlds are nice in that players can research them on their own without the creator of a homebrew either self publishing (expensive) or operating a large personal website (time intensive). The downside here is when you get that player that has memorized a published world's "cannon" and constantly points out how you have done something wrong (I call this "Realm Syndrome"). This will seriously dampen the fun of GMing a game.
When it come to window dressing fluff, the color of flowers and tablecloths, the filigree in metalwork or the type of fabric used in clothing, I sprinkle as much in as possible without getting off track. I've found that if I don't, they will occasionally zone out until initiative gets rolled. Conversely anytime I do under sprinkle the window dressing the players will place an enormous amount of significance in what I said and spend twenty minutes searching the mantle on a fireplace.
A trick I learned awhile back is that different players respond to different things, female players sometimes take notice of fashions in clothing or hairstyles whereas most male players do not. This observation has allowed me to very subtly give certain clues out as to who is actually who in social interactions without beating the party over the head with bossy, overbearing NPCs. (Watching a hardcore player's casual wife explain what a Doublet is, in character, can be pretty funny.) The otherside of that is that male players will obsess over metallurgy and pick out differing weapon styles almost immediately. Personal predilections can vary, I had an art history major at the table for about 3 years that would ask multiple questions about statuary and tapestries and I had to think on my feet sometimes.
So my advice would be to know your players and use the game to get to know them. Don't get to sidetracked though, I have a player who sells cars in real life, he can turn a trip to the village market into an hour long event if I let him haggle with every shopkeeper.
Avoid the wall of text, if it takes longer than 60 or 70 seconds to describe something be prepared to have players either zone out or laser focus on it.
Shoot, I created a wall of text just answering the question.
Q: How much fluff do you use?
A: All of it. :P
In all seriousness though, I try to linkify portions of the PbP narrative to campaign wiki articles on organizations/people/places, and even prior points in the story to help fill-in the players on things their characters would recollect without cluttering up the story. It's sort of like having fluff within fluff.
|
|
I'm a wall of text guy and trying to curb that. I know a lot of this is based on your audience but I'm trying to gauge if my players are in the minority when I say that even the 3 sentence fluff intros to a Descent scenario are tough for them to sit through.
I try to apply what I learned in my public speaking class to box text. If you read your text verbatim from the page, you'll sound like Ben Stien and your players will feel like they are at a college lecture, not a game.
You should have read your box text beforehand, and should use it as an outline to refer back to. Make up your own words, add or subtract on the fly. Your players will be more engaged if you never look down at the paper and instead face them.
This goes for published or hand written text. If you write your own, just have it be bullet points of the important highlights you want to impart. You want to focus on what the characters first notice, and let the players ask about more. Work your description into your answers, which will stick with them better because they are engaged when they hear them.
What you say is not as important as how you say it.
Remorseless weeds. One time, while trying to convey just how downtrodden a ruin was I used the phrase "remorseless weeds". One of my players in particular has never let me live it down.
Tri-guy and Wright Brother From Another Mother: I don't know why (the sin of pride most likely) but I've NEVER paraphrased my own text blocks. I always have in pre-written modules for exactly the same reason you describe - so that I don't just read the adventure TO my players but actually interact with them. I don't know why this didn't occur to me til now.
Last night I finalized the prep for the first homebrew dungeon adventure of the new campaign. In reviewing what I'd written I thought "as a player I have NO idea what's going on here" and I felt it was because I'd edited down a lot of the fluff. I think though that's where the interaction between the players and GM becomes important.
My players SHOULD ask questions of the world around them. If they knew everything that was going on it wouldn't be much of an "adventure". I guess I just struggle with how much fluff is enough to really invest my players in the game, make them feel like they're A PART of said world and have a reason to be on this particular adventure other than the fact that we're playing it.
I'm a wall of text guy and trying to curb that. I know a lot of this is based on your audience but I'm trying to gauge if my players are in the minority when I say that even the 3 sentence fluff intros to a Descent scenario are tough for them to sit through.I try to apply what I learned in my public speaking class to box text. If you read your text verbatim from the page, you'll sound like Ben Stien and your players will feel like they are at a college lecture, not a game.
Ouch. Harsh.
That's fair.
I tend to use fluff everywhere for everything. I can turn a conversation with a minor NPC into a game changing event. For 20 years my previous gaming group LIKED that sort of roleplaying and potential unknown; my current players are polar opposites. One of them actually fell asleep on me in my last campaign (talk about OUCH!)
So this thread was spurred on by the impending deadline of getting back up in front of these guys this weekend after an almost six month hiatus.
I'm trying to re-learn my gaming style and hearken back to my youth when Less Was More. To say I'm nervous is an understatement. I'm not afraid of them or rejection...I'm afraid of sucking and thus realizing that I'm actually NOT the best GM in the world...
So what I'm hearing is that most of you use fluff sparingly and only in description of locales. Any tips on how to inspire a little tension or elicit emotional response with said fluff?
I play in a play by chat game. Knowing that boxed text is going to be cut and pasted rather than read aloud gives me a much freer rein with descriptions and fluff; my players can read as much as they see fit, and their internal voice will sound a lot less pretentious than mine.
As for how much fluff I use – as much as I can find. One of the challenges I enjoy from writing adventures in existing game worlds is weaving a narrative through all the existing lore. It’s not for everyone, I’m a big fan of the Forgotten Realms for this reason, but I know many role-players find the scale of this setting a pain. I try and incorporate as much stuff as I can to heighten verisimilitude (wow, spelled that right first time!), including a lot of mundane, day to day life stuff.
In my current campaign, my players seem to appreciate the fluff a lot, which has encouraged me to give them more. Against the perceived wisdom, my walls of texts are getting longer rather shorter. At base, the length isn’t the issue as long as it’s interesting.
Reading through the posts, I get the impression that many DMs get a real kick out of the world-building. There’s certainly a lot of fluff in the current adventure I’m writing that won’t even reach my player’s ears.
Interestingly enough, I find I devote the same amount of time to fluff be it a homebrew world or an existing one. Even with Golarion or the Realms, I find the head start given by the published material just inspires me to write more to fill in the cracks.
Ex of my fluff in a homebrew adventure for live gaming, not pbp:
Turbulent waves crash on the cliffs below as you climb into the gathering night. The steep granite steps carved into the moss-covered knoll does little to aid the climb. Reaching the summit the night wind howls over the moor stealing the panting breath from your lungs. Then again the fault for the theft may be in part what you find before you.
A mausoleum, long and narrow, spans the reach of the ridge. The lonely hall is fronted by a granite portico; the roofline is topped with spiked peaks and wickedly leering gargoyles. The lintel is upheld with pillars carved to resemble the shield maidens of Dunevain legend and they glower heartlessly across the flagstone court as you approach.
Here's what my players heard: In front of you is a mausolem. There's some statues; they're probably traps.
How do I find a middle ground between the 2?
That's not all that long IMO, but I also am really not used to players who don't appreciate atmosphere, which it sounds like is the issue with yours. =/
|
I typically have way too much fluff. More than any player in his right mind would read, or really have time to. I tend try to core it down but most of the time it comes off incomprehensible and jumbled like I can't get my thoughts together. So like I did this week end I let the players figure things out in game piece by agonizing piece. Now while this is painfully slow for me, it allows the players to enjoy the game more and I find that while there is a lot more going on than the players know, honestly it doesn't matter. The fluff they never find out about just doesn't matter that much.
This weekend they found out the the Gods of good are sometimes called the "Lords of Order" and the ones they think of as evil are "Lords of Chaos". They found out that there are this group of awakened bears out there whose creator was "gunned down" by Odin. And that the cults of Sif and Balder slowly faded from prominence about that same time.
|
|
Mark you could try things like, "the only way to defeat the Children of the Night is to find the great artifacts of the Shield Maidens of Dunevian Legend." if they are not defeated they will hunt you down and kill you, either in person or by proxy.
That way they have a reason and consequences for not hunting down and finding info about the shield maidens.
CJ: the maidens were in fact traps and my players breezed right past em last night. In fact, most of the dungeon just sort of evaporated. I think I figured out a major piece of the puzzle last night though, one I'd suspected all along.
At the beginning of what was supposed to be a climactic battle against a pair of water elementals in a flooded vault my buddy's wife handed him a fussy baby. From that moment forward my epic struggle was suddenly a slog of dice rolls with not a one of us paying any attention.
Love the little girl to death but SUCH a distraction...
Anyway I will take you up on your suggestion. Instead of just stating what they are, imply what the scene is and potential consequences thereof.
When you write up adventures (if you homebrew them) do you write in readable fluff for your players? Do you use a lot or use a lot or a little in your sessions?
I'm a wall of text guy and trying to curb that. I know a lot of this is based on your audience but I'm trying to gauge if my players are in the minority when I say that even the 3 sentence fluff intros to a Descent scenario are tough for them to sit through.
Two rabbits worth of fluff, but never three.
I fill them in, I bring stuff up later, I tell them what they would know from their background even without skills. We play games and through stories, I don't give them my poor-quality stories to read. Being succinct is key because I have gamed under dms that wanted me to read pages and pages of fluff. How much time do they think I have?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My reference work is heavy on the fluff; especially on demographics, political leanings, trade routes, etc.
What I give the players is a quick blurb of "stuff that's different from the book" regarding races, race relations, and skills.
If a player is INTERESTED in my fluff (one guy was taking NOTES -- I love him) I'll let them look at my personal atlas on the area.
When it comes to adventuring/modules/adventure paths, I have written notes of what I should remember to tell the PCs, but I don't just read THOSE. Just check 'em to make sure the PCs have the information they should.
|
|
CJ: the maidens were in fact traps and my players breezed right past em last night. In fact, most of the dungeon just sort of evaporated. I think I figured out a major piece of the puzzle last night though, one I'd suspected all along.
At the beginning of what was supposed to be a climactic battle against a pair of water elementals in a flooded vault my buddy's wife handed him a fussy baby. From that moment forward my epic struggle was suddenly a slog of dice rolls with not a one of us paying any attention.
Love the little girl to death but SUCH a distraction...
Anyway I will take you up on your suggestion. Instead of just stating what they are, imply what the scene is and potential consequences thereof.
A lot of times when the players get invested they will come up with ideas that are better than what you thought up in the first place. Then you can adjust the story and roll with it.
I don't write in fluff for the players, I write it for myself; reminders of what the decor looks like, how a door is constructed, the humidity and temperature of the air, the smell of the vegetation...
All of this helps me get into the mood I was in when I came up with the idea, and reminds me of certain points I need to remember when I describe the locale.
I never read what I've written, I always describe it in an interactive way, so that the players can ask questions and get clarifications. Blocks of text that you read aloud can be confusing or misleading.
+1
So write a bunch 'cause it makes me feel better, then deliver like a tenth of that to the players. Does anyone else but me write up their home made adventures like old-school modules then, complete with shaded boxes of text and imported pictures in the document? My dream is to print a copy and hand it out to my players post game, like as if they've all just participated in a tournament or something...
I've always wanted to write up a full AP-style document of a plot, but any time I've ever tried to prepare that much in advance it's always fallen apart before completing the first "chapter".
The PbP I'm currently running is much more off-the-cuff, with some preparation done for things shortly to come but only a loose outline beyond that, and it's coming along much more smoothly. I guess I just don't work well with getting down to the nitty-gritty details until I'm 100% certain my party's going to run into what I have prepared, and have both use and desire for the information.
I don't think I could ever write something for any groups but my own, heh.
I don't really do box text I plan stuff out but change what I actually say based on the parties actions.
|
|
I've always wanted to write up a full AP-style document of a plot, but any time I've ever tried to prepare that much in advance it's always fallen apart before completing the first "chapter".
When I run adventures, I try to remember the mantra of Don't Prep Plots and treat the world like points of interest for the characters to do what they wish with.
|
|
So write a bunch 'cause it makes me feel better, then deliver like a tenth of that to the players. Does anyone else but me write up their home made adventures like old-school modules then, complete with shaded boxes of text and imported pictures in the document? My dream is to print a copy and hand it out to my players post game, like as if they've all just participated in a tournament or something...
Partially, but as the game progresses I then use what the players have done and the notes of what happened to adjust it. So when I am finished and take a look at the campaign notes they are nothing like what i started with. Also they tend to be a whole lot less legible.
Which coming from me means a lot!
@ TOZ & CJ: I'm not worried about plot design. My plot is an outline of potential events and encounters, sort of like the no-prep plots in the link above. The party starts in the town of Erdanstadt with the stated main plot of recovering loot from local dungeons for the Archivist's Guild to preserve and study. Along the way there's 4 key NPC's they can run into, 3 potential paths throught the wilds for them to follow and a half dozen small encounters like the Kingmaker AP (I've even stolen Tuskgutter and Nettles' Crossing).
By fluff what I'm talking about specifically is getting descriptive about these situations/encounters/events. Ex:
The party's first NPC, the one they're being sent to meet is an Abadaran Inquisitor named Luniev. He's blunt, no nonsense and is all about doing, not studying. In short he begins the game not liking the party. I want to try and manipulate game play to suggest that befriending Luniev might be more advantageous than just easier gather info rolls. I'm going to use him to introduce the concept of NPC boons since this game is the first time I'm using them.
Currently (no exaggeration) I have 10 paragraphs of exposition about the inquisitor and the meeting, the dialogue, and the points that he makes about the surrounding environs. This seems wordy for a guy that doesn't like the party and begins at Indifferent only because he likes the guild they work for.
I want to avoid the other extreme where Luniev hands them the hex map with the ruins on it and says "good luck looters!" with a sneer on his face. I'm trying to find a middle ground between these two.
Finally I'm trying to avoid the boxed text of, say, a Descent encounter. I'm shooting for an organic way of transitioning between a series of situations without boring my players to death.
I usually improvise things like that in a play by post game I can look at what I wrote earlier if I forgot it. I think two to three sentences is a good length.
I suppose half the challenge will be delivery. Many of you have given me advice based on PBP games which have the luxury of, well, posting. I'm talking about a live home game so I guess along with more targeted fluff I suppose I need to be a more engaged storyteller.