I do,
as I have horrible dice rolling luck on stats.
that and various other reasons why I use it,
Both as GM and Player
Since 3E came out in 2000, I think I've only been involved in one campaign which used random stat generation -- in that campaign, the two players who rolled poorly really had noticeably weaker characters, compared to the rest of us. I prefer to have all the PCs on a (relatively) even level as far as their stats go.
I have a couple of players who occasionally ask about random stat generation when we start a new campaign. They, of course, are hopeful that they might get lucky and roll well, but they seem to be less enthused about the possibility of having to play a gimped character if they do roll poorly.
Also, as a DM, using point buy makes it easier to have the players create their characters at home, without me being present -- yes, I love you guys, but I don't entirely trust you, and I'd want to witness stat rolls if we did that. :-)
I've used point buy in the last two campaigns. Two new campaigns starting sometime soon, one will be a 15-pt buy, the other seems likely to be random because the GM doesn't like it.. which makes me sad. I have a good imagination, I can do just fine without random rolls to build my character.
Point buy is much more fair, even if I hate the concept of: smart people are weak, strong people are stupid idea that it fosters.
It does tend to lead to stereotypical versions of classes (the dumb fighter, the weak wizard, etc.). Unless you had a very high point pool, or completely dumped other stats, it'd be impossible to do a character like Roy Greenhilt from OotS (a very intelligent fighter), for example.
I do remember, with fondness, my 1E AD&D wizard, rolled randomly, who had a 5 Strength and a 7 Constitution. His pathetic physical stats helped to define the character's personality. OTOH, I also knew players in that era who just rolled and rolled until they got godlike stats -- if you're going to do that, just start with high stats and be done with it.
It depends on the campaign. I participate in a living world on another board, and understand completely why point buy is used vs rolling. In my own campaign, I used the 2d6+6 variant, with a guaranteed 16. Worked out to be a good compromise overall. There was enough variety in the generated stats to help shape the characters in a somewhat realistic manner, but not so much as to upset those wanting a bit more predictability.
A reference in another thread --"almost all of us do point-buy"-- made me wonder how much this is true.
I don't use point-buy, and only one of the people I game with likes it. And even he does it differently from the book in his campaign.
So the question is, how many people actually do point-buy in their campaign?
EDIT: Since someone will undoubtedly ask, I'll say that the reason I don't use point-buy is that I prefer the unexpected; I'd rather roll and have a chance of the dismal or the spectacular than be too similar to everyone else.
I use point-buy as a GM, and the only players I have met in real life that prefer rolling are the ones that know rerolls are allowed except for one.
If I had to roll, and there were no rerolls I would have a caster concept ready, assuming I did not want to play one as my first option just in case I rolled bad. I am not going martial with one good score and the rest being subpar or really inferior to what everyone else rolled.
Every time.
Absolutely.
IME, most DMs -- who don't frequent gamer forums and don't have an interest in game philosophy -- use whatever is default for their edition.
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First game I ran I did epic-point buy with some caveats. I gave a smaller point pool but it didn't cost more to increase. So to get to 18 only cost 8 points. You couldn't dip below 10.
My last campaign I did roll 2d6+6. These methods might seem overly generous, but we tend to do high powered/low-treasure campaigns.
Frankly, point buy is always a mess every time I've seen it used. The rules for it are overly complicated and somebody will always miscalculate so they're short points or over on points.
However, I'm thinking of using a point buy-esque system in my next game though and doing pre-generated stat blocks to be assigned however the players wish. 17,14,13,12,12,10. That way I can be sure the point buy is done correctly, it's still powerful (Epic buy) but without pesky min-maxing, and it might make things a bit more challenging.
However, I'm thinking of using a point buy-esque system in my next game though and doing pre-generated stat blocks to be assigned however the players wish. 17,14,13,12,12,10.
That sort of system (an "array") is one of the options in 4E, for example. I know that 3.x used something similar for NPCs. You might consider giving the players a couple of different potential arrays (like one that starts with two 16s, for example).
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I have never used point-buy for home games in the years I've been DMing. I've always allowed players to roll their stats.
Now that we're in the computer age, combined with some balance issues coming up in my group, I'll consider point-buy.
I don't have a strong bias either way, it's just that rolling for stats is the way we've always done it before.
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However, I'm thinking of using a point buy-esque system in my next game though and doing pre-generated stat blocks to be assigned however the players wish. 17,14,13,12,12,10.That sort of system (an "array") is one of the options in 4E, for example. I know that 3.x used something similar for NPCs. You might consider giving the players a couple of different potential arrays (like one that starts with two 16s, for example).
Good call. Maybe:
17, 14, 13, 12, 12, 10
17, 14, 14, 12, 10, 10
16, 16, 14, 10, 10, 10
16, 15, 13, 12, 12, 11
15, 14, 14, 14, 13, 10
I think that should offer enough variation? I'm (at least) trying to make sure no more than two stats begin at odd numbers because that would be painful to wait to increase until 12th level.
Point buy - all the time, without exception. It creates a level playing field.
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I always use point buy, and sometimes even go higher than the amount that's recommended. Usually because my campaigns are sometimes a little harder to deal with, and I don't want them thinking I'm a TPK DM. I like everyone being on the same playing field as everyone else for balance, or at least try. I use a variation on the PFS rule for hit points too, where you can roll the HD each level, but if you get lower, you get the PFS standard instead. I've always hated the idea of a PC being weaker than an NPC, and I don't respect DMs who just nonchalantly tell you "well you're just a weaker member with that class, you'll have to work around that weakness and think outside the box" and then give the player absolutely no way to do that whatsoever and go one playing the game like everyone's a god.
No, it isn't impossible to do a character like Roy Greenhilt. A 12 intelligence is above average and only costs 2 points. And for the cost difference of an 18 and a 16 one can have a 15 intelligence.
I think he's supposed to be not just "above average" in intelligence (though that'd be unusual enough for a fighter), but quite intelligent. A 16 Str and a 15 Int, as you propose, might be a reasonable approximation (at least when he was 1st level), and would be 17 points under Pathfinder's point-buy system.
If you were in, say, a 20-point-buy campaign (as Pathfinder Society is), that'd leave you 3 points to buy your remaining four stats (which is why I said "or completely dumped other stats").
Yes, always. 5 or more get 15, 4 get 20, and if we want a really tough game, we might go to 25 for a small party. You'll need a good con...XD
A reference in another thread --"almost all of us do point-buy"-- made me wonder how much this is true.
Yeah, a lot of people will say stuff like this, but it's pretty much untrue. There will always be a substantial group of people who roll the stats in their D&D games - and that includes PF games.
I have used point buy, but I only do so for online games. I do that because we don't have the option of getting together with everyone rolling up their stats at once - something I find a great way to foster player bonding and the sharing of ideas that an individual player might never have otherwise.
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A reference in another thread --"almost all of us do point-buy"-- made me wonder how much this is true.
I don't use point-buy, and only one of the people I game with likes it. And even he does it differently from the book in his campaign.
So the question is, how many people actually do point-buy in their campaign?
EDIT: Since someone will undoubtedly ask, I'll say that the reason I don't use point-buy is that I prefer the unexpected; I'd rather roll and have a chance of the dismal or the spectacular than be too similar to everyone else.
In my home campaign, I use 15 point buy.
Used rolling in 3.5 and earlier, switched to point-buy in Pathfinder and haven't looked back. As others have noted, it creates a more level playing field, and it make it easier for me (as GM) to have a predictable baseline against which to design encounters.
With that said, it is much easier to challenge the 20-pt characters in my local game than the 40+ pt gestalts in the ol' PbP. ;)
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We do point-buy in our Friday and Saturday games. We do it because several of us have only BAD dice luck.
Personally, I'm old-school enough to want to roll 4d6 seven times, reroll 1's, and drop the lowest score generated. That's how my 2nd edition group did it, and I'll happily roll for stats.
Is it socially unacceptable to jokingly say "but everyone point-buys nowadays!" and then run away laughing maniacally? :)
I give players the option.
They can either roll or use point buy, for those that usually roll poorly.
Just like for HD, they can roll or use the avg.
Unless you had a very high point pool, or completely dumped other stats, it'd be impossible to do a character like Roy Greenhilt from OotS (a very intelligent fighter), for example.
I don't know about that. The Combat Expertise feat tree requires INT 13, which is above-average intelligence. Even with 15 point-buy, you could go with 16 STR (+2 racial if you're human or half-), 13 INT, 12 CON, and 10 in the rest of your stats. Nothing wrong with that.
I don't know about that. The Combat Expertise feat tree requires INT 13, which is above-average intelligence. Even with 15 point-buy, you could go with 16 STR (+2 racial if you're human or half-), 13 INT, 12 CON, and 10 in the rest of your stats. Nothing wrong with that.Unless you had a very high point pool, or completely dumped other stats, it'd be impossible to do a character like Roy Greenhilt from OotS (a very intelligent fighter), for example.
The problem is that while you can make it work, it does require a lot of system mastery and preplanning in order to do so, and that is something that a lot of players don't really have or want to deal with.
I don't know about that. The Combat Expertise feat tree requires INT 13, which is above-average intelligence. Even with 15 point-buy, you could go with 16 STR (+2 racial if you're human or half-), 13 INT, 12 CON, and 10 in the rest of your stats. Nothing wrong with that.
If you think Roy's INT is only 13, of course. As I noted earlier, I suspect he's supposed to be even smarter than that. :-)
We pretty much always roll the dice - usually 4d6, drop lowest, reroll 1s, assign where you want.
L
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We pretty much always roll the dice - usually 4d6, drop lowest, reroll 1s, assign where you want.
I only let players do this type on solo campaigns, two or three players usually have 3d6 reroll ones, full groups (4+), use point buy. The amount of point buy always depends on the difficulty of the campaign.
I am Grim
Yeah, 25 people isn't enough to get an accurate picture of the big picture.
As I said, it's been my experience that most DMs use whatever method is default for whatever ruleset they're using. Even if they tweak how the stats are rolled or bought, "switching sides" seems to cause anxiety for most DMs. Discounting myself, I can't remember a 2e or 3.x DM who uses point buy for face-to-face games. I've never met a 4e DM who uses rolling.
But of course I've never done organized play, so there's also that.
There is the problem of skewed perception, in that when you read a thread title like "Do you use point buy in your campaign?), those who respond tend to be the ones who hold that view--who would say "yes".
Maybe a follow-up thread could produce better results by phrasing its subject line without stating one of the possible answers (i.e. 'How do you generate ability scores in your campaign?').
Jerry Wright 307, I'm a point buy evangelist.
I've played D&D, PF, and many other role playing games for years and have firmly come to the opinion that rolling is unfair.
There is a tendency to "throw out" whole sets that do not produce high stats. Result: practically everybody has high stats! Except the new people who don't know that trick and the really honest role players who will take the challenge of what they get.
So rolling punishes those new and honest players while the min/maxers show up with stats multiple 16s, 17s, and 18s. I just won't stand for that.
So the only way to get characters that are truly different and unique--strong in some areas and weak in others--is to enforce point-buy for character creation.
Jerry Wright 307, I'm a point buy evangelist.
I've played D&D, PF, and many other role playing games for years and have firmly come to the opinion that rolling is unfair.
There is a tendency to "throw out" whole sets that do not produce high stats. Result: practically everybody has high stats! Except the new people who don't know that trick and the really honest role players who will take the challenge of what they get.
So rolling punishes those new and honest players while the min/maxers show up with stats multiple 16s, 17s, and 18s. I just won't stand for that.
So the only way to get characters that are truly different and unique--strong in some areas and weak in others--is to enforce point-buy for character creation.
Or find a DM that changes up how they adjust the rolls that really genuinely need it. I've gotten to a point where I'll make occasional modifications, but usually only to the scores in the middle of the range. I've found that changing a 10 to a 13 while leaving the 8 alone does just as much or more to create a workable array while maintaining the uniqueness of the array.
I've rolled stats for every group i've ever been in- until this current group of folks.
We get to play so seldom (two weeks in a row- but before that? like 3 months in between sessions) that the idea of taking a session to roll up characters just seems like a waste. so We do PB and all that and communicate with forums and such on the interweb rather than with a bull-session in person.
I prefer dice rolling but limited time to play just makes PB a better option for us.
-S
Depends on the group, as I'm fine either way. I have two primary groups right now, one of which always rolls stats, and the other always does point buy.
So the only way to get characters that are truly different and unique--strong in some areas and weak in others--is to enforce point-buy for character creation.I'm of the opposite opinion. IME, point-buy produces cookie-cutter characters. Random rolls do not.
And the method I use for random rolls forbids rolling a set of stats and trashing them. See my previous post.
That is patently false. I have never made 2 of anything, the exact same way as a player. Cookie cutter builds are on the player, not the dice.
Random rolls don't prevent cookie cutting. If I go into cookie mode, and I roll for stats I am still going to try to take the same feats, and give certain abilities priority.