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Alright, I replied to this once, but the internet not only ate my reply but stopped showing me this thread at all, so fingers crossed...
I don't have the Guide in front of me to verify wording, but I believe the rule is that you can't have lingering spell effects and you can't craft items. Blanching is neither.
And frankly, as a GM I don't want to sit around witnessing several rounds of the whole party gathered around a campfire roasting their weapons like marshmallows. Seriously, let's play the game. Do your blanching between scenarios.
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I had this question as well for my archer. With durable arrows not being legal for PFS, I have a hard time justifying buying stacks of adamantine arrows at 60gp a pop. So I had the same idea of using weapon blanches instead. The problem is that, like Jiggy said, you have to actually stop and coat the arrows with it, so blanching weapons is not really plausible during combat.
So if blanches do not stay, I have to either buy a new blanch every scenario and apply it to my weapons first thing, loosing it if we don't encounter any enemy with DR, or try to guess if we will encounter such a monster and apply it then.
I would love for blanches to stick around from scenario to scenario (makes sense thematically. The blanch doesn't just fall off in time) but something tells me that since that would make the cost per projectile less than 60gp per arrow (the cost of a real adamantine arrow), it's not legal.
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I have always assumed that weapon blanch stays around, since the only thing which disappears at the end of a scenario is spells according to the PFSOP guide. My inquisitor in fact has a bunch of silver blanched arrows from two or three levels ago at this point.
In non PFS play it is like poison in that it stays indefinitely until the weapon hits something, as the description of weapon blanch clearly states. I'm not sure how even "archers should not be able to compete with DR/adamantine for less than 60gp a pop" would justify reversing that rule for PFS.
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Alright, I replied to this once, but the internet not only ate my reply but stopped showing me this thread at all, so fingers crossed...
I don't have the Guide in front of me to verify wording, but I believe the rule is that you can't have lingering spell effects and you can't craft items. Blanching is neither.
And frankly, as a GM I don't want to sit around witnessing several rounds of the whole party gathered around a campfire roasting their weapons like marshmallows. Seriously, let's play the game. Do your blanching between scenarios.
mmmm gelatine blanch arrows. effective aginst oozes!
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I'd say because you never touch the acid in the flask, while you have to take the time to use the blanch prior to using it. Just my opinion though, and I have been wrong more times than not.
Well, that's the critical point here - you haven't used the blanch - you've merely applied it such that it can be properly used at a later time.
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It is interesting to note that everyone here only talks about arrows (bolts?) nobody about hand to hand weapons. The same rule would apply to both.
I'm here with the OP. I wouldn't use it myself until clarified here but wouldn't rule it out at my table as the rules seem to back it up that is stays potent - even for weeks or month.
Guess a FAQ / official opinion would help here.
Director of Brand Strategy
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As long as the use of the blanch is accounted for on a Chronicle sheet (under items used) I can't see a reason their effects would go away between scenarios. In general, however, poisons and weapon blanches should be applied to weapons at the start of scenarios rather than the end to lessen the chance of you needing to keep track of whether they're still in effect at the start of the next session.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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As long as the use of the blanch is accounted for on a Chronicle sheet (under items used) I can't see a reason their effects would go away between scenarios. In general, however, poisons and weapon blanches should be applied to weapons at the start of scenarios rather than the end to lessen the chance of you needing to keep track of whether they're still in effect at the start of the next session.
Listed. Thanks, Mark!
@Thod - My fighter actually used to carry a pair of greatswords coated with ghost salt blanch, held in reserve to make a couple of good chops once I encountered something incoporeal.
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As long as the use of the blanch is accounted for on a Chronicle sheet (under items used) I can't see a reason their effects would go away between scenarios. In general, however, poisons and weapon blanches should be applied to weapons at the start of scenarios rather than the end to lessen the chance of you needing to keep track of whether they're still in effect at the start of the next session.
Well, huzzah then! Will make sure to buy a vial before next adventure!
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I wonder if this could be used as evidence in the ioun torch issue...
I’m sure it could!
But I totally disagreed with the interpretation that an item listed in the book, that is not listed as a one-shot item like a potion or blanche, like everburning torch and ioun torch must be repurchased each session.
So maybe this ruling will put that interpretation to bed.
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Ok let me ask a question to add onto this that seems a bit abusive to me.
Let's say I use ghost salts on my ammo, then cast Abundant Ammo. Would I then have an unlimited usage of the ghost salted ammo?
Also would common sense apply and say that you can't apply ghost salts to an alchemical cartridge since heating it over a fire seems problematic.
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Ok let me ask a question to add onto this that seems a bit abusive to me.
Let's say I use ghost salts on my ammo, then cast Abundant Ammo. Would I then have an unlimited usage of the ghost salted ammo?
Probably not, since it's not actually part of the arrow.
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Probably not, since it's not actually part of the arrow.Ok let me ask a question to add onto this that seems a bit abusive to me.
Let's say I use ghost salts on my ammo, then cast Abundant Ammo. Would I then have an unlimited usage of the ghost salted ammo?
But the spell duplicates other effects on the arrows or quiver.
When cast on a container such as a quiver or a pouch that contains nonmagical ammunition or shuriken (including masterwork ammunition or shuriken), at the start of each round this spell replaces any ammunition taken from the container the round before. The ammunition taken from the container the round before vanishes. If, after casting this spell, you cast a spell that enhances projectiles, such as align weapon or greater magic weapon, on the same container, all projectiles this spell conjures are affected by that spell.
Tough call, but, IMO, AA duplicates everything about the original, non-magical missile, as well as any spell effects that enhance it.
After all, if you fire a cold iron arrow, AA makes a replacement cold iron arrow, not a plain material arrow....
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There's a difference between being made of cold iron, and being made of steel but having something else covering it. Blanches don't actually change the arrow, remember. You just put a thin coating of something over it. The arrow is unchanged.
I could be wrong, but expecting weapon blanch to be duplicated by this spell seems the same as wrapping an arrow in cloth and expecting the cloth to be duplicated. Same with a coating of poison, or heck, even the container itself.
Just because a material is touching the arrow doesn't make it part of the arrow.
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But the spell also replicates buffs which target projectiles, so by analogy it should replicate a weapon blanch. The spell would replicate poison too. I am working off the logic that the spell magically makes a peice of ammunition identical to what is in the container at the time you draw the ammo.
OTOH, an argument could be made that the spell would only replicate a property applied while the spell is in effect, but I'm pretty sure that that is not entirely intended.
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I would differentiate between a spell effect and a substance. When ammunition is affected by a spell, its own properties change. When ammunition is coated in poison or blanch, the arrow is unchanged. The only reason the effect of a hit is different is because there's something else hitting the target besides just the arrow.
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By the way, I feel I should point out that I believe the spell is not entirely clear, and I'm just putting forth my thoughts. I do not believe I am unequivocally correct, I just currently am more satisfied with my interpretation than others presented (thus far) and it's how I would rule at my own table if no additional information/argumentation is presented.
I felt I should clarify that.
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When you cast this spell, what I imagine happening is that each time you take a non-magical arrow out of the quiver with this spell on it, at the beginning of the next round the spell magically creates an identical arrow in the quiver for you to draw on this turn.
The only place that our arguments differ is that I think that any non-magical modification to the arrow gets replicated by the spell, and you think that only things that are intrinsic to the arrow get replicated, right?
Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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I'm one that believes it would copy the blanche.
If the spell can copy any fletching, spell effects, special materials, or alchemical components in the arrow (not PFS legal but tanglefoot arrows, raining arrows, etc) then why couldn't the spell copy the stuff coating the head?
Of course, copying adamantine arrows coated with wyvern poison seems a little broken now that I think of it... Hmm...
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But the spell also replicates buffs which target projectiles, so by analogy it should replicate a weapon blanch. The spell would replicate poison too. I am working off the logic that the spell magically makes a peice of ammunition identical to what is in the container at the time you draw the ammo.
OTOH, an argument could be made that the spell would only replicate a property applied while the spell is in effect, but I'm pretty sure that that is not entirely intended.
Hmm... actually, would it replicate poison? If so, that could make a poison-user actually viable in PFS play, considering how notoriously expensive poisons are. Make something we should get an FAQ on?
EDIT: Eric, while that would be a potential problem, I don't think it will come up in PFS play, considering players are restricted to the following(unless they have a poison on a chronicle sheet):
Giant wasp poison(1d2 Dex)
Large scorpion venom(1d2 Str)
Medium spider venom(1d2 Str)
Shadow essence(1 Drain/1d2 Str)
Small centipede poison(1 Dex)
The only two poisons I've ever seen on a chronicle sheet are Hunter Urchin Venom and Blue Whinnis, which provide more options(Staggered for the Urchin, 1 Con for the Blue Whinnis) but aren't terribly powerful themselves.
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Of course, copying adamantine arrows coated with wyvern poison seems a little broken now that I think of it... Hmm...
You have to get the Wyvern poison in PFS first.
The intent of the rules may very well be to not replicate poison, but if the spell can replicate weapon blanches and all of the wacky alchemical arrows I think that logically it should. In a home game I would say of course, but we probably need an FAQ for PFS.
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Of course, copying adamantine arrows coated with wyvern poison seems a little broken now that I think of it... Hmm...You have to get the Wyvern poison in PFS first.
I know a guy playing a poisoner rogue who was thrilled to death when he got a chronicle with 3 doses of drow poison. If he had abundant ammunition and it replicates poison, then he only has to spend one "real" dose per combat and his 3 doses can have him poisoning people for the whole scenario (or save it for one "boss fight" each for 3 scenarios).
Overpowered? I honestly don't know. But I felt like sharing.
The intent of the rules may very well be to not replicate poison, but if the spell can replicate weapon blanches
Whether it's yea or nay, poison and weapon blanches should both go the same way, as they're both substances used to coat the projectile.
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The only two poisons I've ever seen on a chronicle sheet are Hunter Urchin Venom and Blue Whinnis, which provide more options(Staggered for the Urchin, 1 Con for the Blue Whinnis) but aren't terribly powerful themselves.
Drow Sleep Poison is on a few chronicles, and some of the modules have weird poisons on them as well. If you are lucky you can find some good ones.
I don't think that I have seen three doses on any chronicle sheets I am familiar with though.
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Someone in the rules thread I necro'd on this topic pointed out the line from AA stating that each round, ammunition pulled from the container the previous round vanishes. Thus, even if it affects poison/blanching, it doesn't give you an endless supply.
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If he had abundant ammunition and it replicates poison, then he only has to spend one "real" dose per combat and his 3 doses can have him poisoning people for the whole scenario (or save it for one "boss fight" each for 3 scenarios).
If he used a wand, or was a cleric it wouldn't even cost one real dose as all he would have to do is poison the ammo then put the ammo in his quiver, pouch, etc then cast the spell and draw the ammo.
It's what my Gunslinger does when he needs to fire more than two shots per combat, or needs to use things like flare shots, silver bullets, or adamantite bullets.
I personally feel it would be a bit broken if I got to use Ghost Salts with the spell as well, but I'm cheap and I'd love a discount.
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Someone in the rules thread I necro'd on this topic pointed out the line from AA stating that each round, ammunition pulled from the container the previous round vanishes. Thus, even if it affects poison/blanching, it doesn't give you an endless supply.
Not endless, sure - but what happens if you pull a poisoned arrow, fire it(and hit) a monster, then it refreshes the next round? Does the monster suddenly stop being poisoned?
I think they would still suffer the effects of the poison, though at least this means they need one poisoned/blanched arrow per shot fired each round. No shooting a monster 3 times in a round with a single poisoned arrow!
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So, I've never actually used a charge from my abundant ammo wand on my archer 11.
OTOH I have burned a full attacks worth of ghost salt blanched arrows to end a fight in one turn.
It's become part of my bard's routine. Perform as a move, cast AA, full attacks on subsequent rounds if needed -- swapping clips to whatever is appropriate.