Master Chymist help.....


Advice


I have a Master Chymist plotted out as a back up character for Carrion Crown.

I'm focusing on the mutagen obviously....focusing on a Jekyll/Hyde type.
And took the beast morph archeytype to boost the mutegen effects some.

But I'm still falling short of where I would like him to be in regards to his "Alter ego's" Strength, Natural Armor, and HP....

And would like to get some DR and ER in there if possible.

If I had to bring him in now (8th level) I'm only looking at about a 16 AC, and 16 Str.....our half orc does better than that.....:(

The only thing I can think of outside of magic items, is to find extracts that have long enough durations to keep up with his mutagenic form.....

Any ideas or recomendations ?


Recommendation 1: Rearrange your stats. If you're only hitting 16 STR base, you're doing it wrong. Int can be tanked for the most part. If you can afford a +2 Headband, you can have your character's INT be as low as 14 base and not lose Extracts once you morph. Obviously, a level 8 character can afford the 4k cost of this item. Your starting STR should be at least 18 (16+2 in point buy).

Recommendation 2: Beastmorph AND Vivisectionist. They work together, after all. Vivisectionist goes REALLY well with MC, even if MC doesn't scale up the Sneak Attack damage.

Recommendation 3: Feral Mutagen + Half-Orc with Toothy or Tusked. This gives you 3 attacks/round. With Sneak Attack. Also, you have the option of +1 to all saves if you use the Orcs of Golarion trait instead of the alternate racial from the APG.

Recommendation 4: Don't worry about ER. You get Extracts for that. I wouldn't really be concerned about DR, either, unless you still expect to be fighting against goblins and kobolds at level 8.

Recommendation 5: 1 level dip in Barbarian, possibly 2. Rage is good. If you want to go Vestigial Arms + Lesser Beast Totem, you can get up to 5 natural attacks. You probably want to use 1 feat for Extra Rage if you do this, though, as you will rapidly run out of Rage rounds otherwise.


I'm really shooting for a broad difference between his Alchemist form and his mutate form.....

In his normal form he's a very scrawny "book worm" type scholar (CG)
not a warrior, and not very handy when it comes to physical combat.
Tends to try and ration his elixers and bombs....and doesnt really like hurting people if he can avoid it.
So I don't want to boost his standard abilities too much.

His mutate form, Synn, is supposed to be very much like the Hyde from Van Helsing movie (CN).
I am using throw anything, catch off guard, Improvised weapon mastery, and probably the "dirty trick" feats, to make him combat capable, with out really giving him a lot of "formal" weapons ability.....
He relies primarily on the fact that he's much bigger and stronger than most (and uses up most of the alchemists bombs and elixers at an alarming rate). He's something of a shamless hedonist...gleefully throwing bombs and smashing things for the sheer thrill of doing so.

I looked at the Vivisectionist, butt that doesn't really boost the mutate form at all, just switches bombs for sneak attack.
I think I'm happier with the bombs.

I'm thinking if I can get mage armor and false life as a potion....that will help some.....but I was hoping there where other ways to boost the mutate form, without boosting his base form.


If you're building him as a bomb-tossing scholar you're not really focusing on his mutagen form, to be honest.

You have a severe dissonance between your jekyll and hyde personas, which will probably gimp your hyde more than help it in any way. You shouldn't be surprised then that the character is worse than "your half-orc" at melee combat or in mutagenic form.


I'm with Raje. The recommendations I put forth were designed to create a capable combatant that could compete with a Barbarian, Ranger, or Fighter. If that's not your goal, then I'm not sure why you're going with the MC. You could stick with Beastmorph and essentially use that as your alternate persona, if you really wanted. Not much of what you've said so far necessitates an alternate alignment such as you would have with the MC.

Ultimately, MC is designed to make a more competent melee Alchemist. Your largest bonus is that you get additional Mutagen uses that aren't tied to the actual Mutagen (at the expense of the level 14 upgrade, of course), and the MC offers certain niceties that aren't covered by the Alchemist itself. It really doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to have the MC if you're not going to optimize the character for combat.

Dark Archive

I would actually not recommend stacking vivisectionist with master chymist, because bombs are a major boon for a melee character, especially because they are upgraded by the prestige class.

You're not going to be able to get away with having a scrawny character who is good in melee, unfortunately. If that's what you want, you're better off with something like vestigial twin.


Mergy wrote:
I would actually not recommend stacking vivisectionist with master chymist, because bombs are a major boon for a melee character, especially because they are upgraded by the prestige class.

My thought on it is that the MC is designed to be a brutal combatant and a 4d6 Sneak Attack added to each attack (and using a grip of Naturals) is a good way to do it. Bombs are definitely good and they do progress with the PrC, but I honestly don't think they mesh as well as the Vivisectionist.

The Exchange Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

It's hard to make a Mr Hyde type character who shines unless your base character has a decent strength. Bookworm Jekyll makes a rather wimpy Hyde.

I tend to agree with sticking with straight alchemist. I really like the versatility of having bombs and a solid melee attack.


unfortunately mage armor isn't on the alchemist formulae list. but at level 8, you should be able to get a +2 mithral chain shirt for 5100gp. that's +6 AC. if you go the dex mutagen route, the armor gives you max +6 dex bonus. feral mutagen gives you three attacks at full BAB. add weapon finesse and you have your bomb thrower that can also do melee damage. goes well with vivisectionist. get a +1 darkwood heavy shield for another +3 shield bonus with no armor check. or do my personal favorite trick and use a vestigial arm to hold it and you can still full attack and never lose the bonus.

also, if all you're after is the alterego RP aspect of the MC or want the mutate at will ability, you could always just take a single level and then go back to alchemist.

trying to figure out how blowing three discoveries to get vestigial twin makes you a more effective melee character.

btw, barkskin and heroism both have 10min/level durations, just like your mutagen.

The Exchange Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Quote:
...add weapon finesse and you have your bomb thrower that can also do melee damage. goes well with vivisectionist....

Something is seriously wrong with trying to put these statements together as a complete thought. I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to figure it out.

Dark Archive

Serisan wrote:
Mergy wrote:
I would actually not recommend stacking vivisectionist with master chymist, because bombs are a major boon for a melee character, especially because they are upgraded by the prestige class.
My thought on it is that the MC is designed to be a brutal combatant and a 4d6 Sneak Attack added to each attack (and using a grip of Naturals) is a good way to do it. Bombs are definitely good and they do progress with the PrC, but I honestly don't think they mesh as well as the Vivisectionist.

Here's the problem with that: 4d6 sneak attack comes out to 14 damage on average, when it comes. Bombs as they advance come out to a much higher number, and with far more utility, because they can be used at range with only a single hand free.

Now alchemists have a few good ways of pulling off sneak attack, but a master chymist plays like a bruiser, and if you want to be a bruiser, you don't want to be fiddling around looking for your flank or your invisibility. You want to rush in there and start swinging a two-by-four; if you can't make it into melee in one round, chuck a stink bomb to warm them up.

Not to mention the tremendous synergy available between master chymist and Breath Weapon Bomb.


Dennis Baker wrote:
Quote:
...add weapon finesse and you have your bomb thrower that can also do melee damage. goes well with vivisectionist....

Something is seriously wrong with trying to put these statements together as a complete thought. I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to figure it out.

er, oops! ignore me, i haven't slept in three days. i mean, look at the rest of that crappy advice.


Dennis Baker wrote:
Quote:
...add weapon finesse and you have your bomb thrower that can also do melee damage. goes well with vivisectionist....

Something is seriously wrong with trying to put these statements together as a complete thought. I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to figure it out.

Throw in some Agile on an AOMF as a remedy! :D But yeah... haha.


Raje wrote:

If you're building him as a bomb-tossing scholar you're not really focusing on his mutagen form, to be honest.

You have a severe dissonance between your jekyll and hyde personas, which will probably gimp your hyde more than help it in any way. You shouldn't be surprised then that the character is worse than "your half-orc" at melee combat or in mutagenic form.

that's kind of my point.

I'm NOT building him as a bomb tossing scholar.....

I'm trying to build him as a scholar, interested in the science of alchemy....who happens to have a bomb throwing-bruiser of an alter ego with a love of reaking havok, when in his mutagenic form.

The dissonance is deliberate.

The reason I was more interested in bombs as opposed to sneak attacks, is that it requires less specific conditions to pull of a bomb toss than a sneak attack. And since the base alchemist is not a grusome disection type.....it would run contrary to his nature.

From an optimization stand point, vivisectionist and the sneak attack option are probably very sound advice.

But the base alchemist is supposed to be pretty non-combatative.
It's his alternate persona (Synn) that has a penchant for breaking things.

I'll look into barkskin and Heroism, maybe if I combine them every time he takes his mutagen, it will get him close to where I want him.

On the aside....I played around with Synthesist as a way of building this character at a fellow players suggestion....
Worked really well, get's the eidolon form right where it needs to be at reasonable levels.
The only hang up is the whole banishment, dismissal issue.
Alternate personality could be handled with MPD Insanity.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Master Chymist help..... All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.