I am in a group and one of the players an archer loves to climb a tree at camp and if anything happen just fire from the tree.
There has to be some sort of penalty/danger for this. Though I cannot seem to find a rule on it per say.
Please help point me to the rules on firing a bow while in a tree.
He cannot fire a bow while climbing so he would have to be balanced in the tree or something.
Thanks
Sitting in a tree shouldn't impose a direct penalty. It's pretty much how lots of modern archery hunters do it.
However, the tree itself might provide concealment and/or soft cover, depending on season and foliage.
If the tree is small or you let him know beforehand that things are a little unstable up there, you can apply a -2 or -5 circumstance penalty to his attack rolls (you should let him know which before he ever needs to fire his bow).
If an archer takes the time to climb up into a tree he has some advantages.
However those can turn into disadvantages real quick... he has nowhere to run really, if he has to.
I am not worried about my character lime light in the least. I was just thinking mechanically speaking if you just climb some tree in the woods that does not have a tree stand or the perfect branch there should be some penalties firing a long bow.
Cross bow I can see being fired while sitting in in a tree branch since you can fire it from prone.
You cannot fire a longbow from prone so you will need: a) a platform to stand on, b) a branch to balance on.
Good idea on the concealment or cover due to branches in the way. A seeking bow and archery feats take care of that though. Though I could see X feet of tree should eventually give full cover or concealment.
Since no one was able to find a hard fast rule we will just have to come up with something that sounds/feel right.
Thanks for the input.
Oh and I am not trying to find a way to penalize him for thinking outside the box. Just trying to 'keep it real' and use the rules.
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There are line of sight problems when you're up in a tree. Basically, you can see well down but not great to the sides in most trees.
If you're up high, you'd be looking through nearby treetops when you are looking laterally so your range would be reduced. I'd give the character concealment and/or cover but give everything else the same outside a 30' radius, probably full concealment outside 60'.
Maybe adjust those radii depending on how thick the forest is. I've hunted in some bad bush where you can't see much more than 10-15' and I've hunted in some open trees where you can see 100's of feet between the trunks.
I have done a lot of hunting from trees and tree stands.
It is usually not very difficult to find a place in a tree where you have excellent vision down the trails or into the clearings you intend to hunt. The same should hold true for combat. Combat tends to occur in open areas that would allow for clean shots from carefully chosen tree locations.
However, if the combat moves off the trail or around a corner, then all sorts of cover and line of sight problems would apply.
But that would generally be true if the archer were standing on the ground in the same terrain.
I wouldn't rule against the smart tactics of the player beside this gives you something to build on as a GM. Sure the archer has partial cover and an excellent field of view. you know this tactic is coming as the party makes camp so set yourself up with the terrain working to your advantage too. here are a couple of thoughts that I would look into.
- the advancing enemy also has partial cover from the other trees in the neighborhood.
- the rolling hills that the party thought would make a good concealed campsite also gives the rest of the party blocked line of sight from the enemy.
- maybe the visual advantage of the enemy may allow for them to spot the warm blooded archer up in the trees well before the archer spots them.
- magic missiles. it would be awful fun to have the enemy spot the archer and start the combat with one or two casters saying hello in a mannor that would encourage him to una@# his spot in the tree for the relative safety the ground would offer vs being a prickly piniata hanging in the tree.
- I am sure there are other interesting spells to use like "Grease" cast from and "invisible" caster.
- How about once the archer sees the emeny and properly warns the party (player rewarded for good tactics) the second round after he fires from the trees the enemy caster launches and entangle spell.
- maybe the non magical approach like the enemy has archers too. If you can see them and give yourself up then they can see you.
There are countless ways you can spin this to make and interesting encounter. Afterall the GM isn't supposed to win, just give the players in the group a great story to remember from the encounter. years later there will be the "do you remember the time when I was camped out in that tree and the entire hobgoblin army decided to move through the area. You guys had to run and all I could do was hide in the tree for two days."
Are you going to effect spellcasters along similar lines?
Don't try to bring in "reality" to a fantasy game, esp when folks here who have done this in reality have said it's no big deal.
Other that the fact he's fixed in one point, and may have line of sight issue, my suggestion is to do nothing.
Survival Check: Finding a suitable tree/branch for firing a longbow, if there is any (your decision), probably quiet easy.
At the start of each of his combat rounds: The archer has to make an Acrobatics/Climb check (whatever fits the situation better), DC 15 (or else). If he doesn't make the check, he can't fire, because he needs a hand to balance himself.
For a seasoned ranger, that should not be a problem. After level five or so, he is pretty much going to auto-succeed. A fighter in full-plate on the other hand, is going to have some problems now and then.
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Snakes live in trees...
"I'm tired of these motherf*ing snakes in this motherf*ing tree!"
Looking through the prior posts I see a few things to point out, some of which have been said already.
Skill checks:
Climb check to climb up tree is DC 15 for a normal tree
Climb Check to place themselves in a good spot to use the bow about a DC 15 on top of the normal climb check.
Survival check at DC 10 to pick the right place to stand to use the bow.
Other Factors:
Line of sight (what he can fire at ) I would determine an arc where he can fire on targets without them having Cover/Concealment from him even though he may have 20% Cover/Concealment from them. This arc would be between 30 and 120 degrees, the tpye of trees in the area would determane what the arc is at least in part.
Smart opponets will look for "snipers" or guards before they attack, and if this char. is asleep they have little to no chance of knowing about teh attackers till someone wakes them.
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Many of the suggestions abover are great. Here are the general rules for trees:
Trees: The most important terrain element in a forest is the trees, obviously. A creature standing in the same square as a tree gains partial cover, which grants a +2 bonus to Armor Class and a +1 bonus on Reflex saves. The presence of a tree doesn't otherwise affect a creature's fighting space, because it's assumed that the creature is using the tree to its advantage when it can. The trunk of a typical tree has AC 4, hardness 5, and 150 hp. A DC 15 Climb check is sufficient to climb a tree. Medium and dense forests have massive trees as well. These trees take up an entire square and provide cover to anyone behind them. They have AC 3, hardness 5, and 600 hp. Like their smaller counterparts, it takes a DC 15 Climb check to climb them.
Forest Canopy: It's common for elves and other forest dwellers to live on raised platforms far above the surface floor. These wooden platforms often have rope bridges between them. To get to the treehouses, characters ascend the trees' branches (Climb DC 15), use rope ladders (Climb DC 0), or take pulley elevators (which can be made to rise a number of feet equal to a Strength check, made each round as a full-round action). Creatures on platforms or branches in a forest canopy are considered to have cover when fighting creatures on the ground, and in medium or dense forests they have concealment as well.
--Schoolhouse Vrock
There is no recoil when firing a bow, and balancing on a tree limb is not that difficult if you've ever climbed one. As an archer, he will have the dexterity to claim it's a non-issue.
We grant a +1 to any attack roll made on higher ground. It's so much easier to fire downward. Try it in real life.
In many cases, he'd probably count as climbing or balancing, which will deny him his Dex bonus to AC. Sitting in a tree seems like it would make it hard to dodge, duck, & weave, too.
In pathfinder, height advantage only goes to melee attackers, not ranged attackers; unfortunately.
I woul say he gets
+ soft cover
+ not being within melee range
- not using longbows, only short or crossbow
- perhaps -2
- he gets hit: balance check
- tree gets hit sufficiently hard (boar): balance check
Perhaps you could tell him to take the feat "Mounted Archery" (without pre-req) and modify it to "Tree Archery", thus taking away the penalty?